Is it possible to lose salvation?

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GodsGrace

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In order to believe in God you must first receive the gift of faith, which God only gives to His elect.
Another Calvinist belief -
We must have faith first in order to believe.

WHOSOEVER believes WILL be saved.

We are saved BY FAITH.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;


We receive the gift of salvation because of God's grace...through faith.


Paul teaches that we are to repent in order to be saved.
Acts 2:38
38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


John 1:12
12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,


First we receive Jesus...
Believe in His name

AND THEN
We become children of God.

THIS is the order for salvation.
Then you must receive the gift of repentance, then you must receive the gift of a new Spirit, then you must receive the gift of obedience, then you must receive the gift of transformation, then you must receive the gift of perseverance, then you must receive many other gifts to make you conform to the image of the Lord Jesus.

Before you can receive any of these gifts, you must first be dead in your sin and utterly helpless and hopeless and unable to do anything other than stink like a corpse. And God has to do the all the work of salvation, from start to finish.
The above is NOT what the OT or the NT teaches.
The bible teaches that we are to SEEK God: (of course while we are dead in our sins).

Matthew 6:33
33But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.


Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.


Jeremiah 29:13
13You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

If you try to contribute anything to earn your salvation, then it is an abomination in Gods sight and you need to repent of it.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord,
because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Which part of "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation" don't you understand??????????????
Let's look at your verse: (exactly as YOU posted it)


2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


God has chosen us from the beginning....
FOR SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....

God called us THROUGH THE GOSPEL - THE GOOD NEWS....
so that we may gain the glory of Jesus Christ.

God does not choose WHO....
but He did predestinate for:
METHOD
or
PURPOSE

We will be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....
THIS has been predestinated.

Because God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of Him.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who
desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

Christian Soldier

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I'll repeat my question:
IF God chooses WHO will be saved....
and YOU believe that they will persevere till the end....
WHY do we ned to make sure of our calling?
Your question is based on a false premise, that being Jacob Arminius' "saved by works" heresy, where by you must earn your salvation by keeping the law and doing good works and persevering in good works to the end.

The problem with your Arminian version of the gospel, is that it's not supported by a single verse of scripture. You are following the teaching of a heretic and asking me to find fault with it.
In this case, the fault is you are presuming that the scripture you elude to is saying that we must keep the law and do good works to make our salvation sure, but the scripture says no such thing. It is in fact speaking to born again believers who are already saved, it's not meant for people like Joseph Stalin of Adolf Hitler, as you're suggesting.

The scripture is an exhortation (encouragement) to remain steadfast in the faith, it's not a commandment or condition to earn salvation as you falsely claim it is. It's impossible for Born again believers, to lose their salvation. Yes I know your idol Jacob Arminius denied what God said and taught the opposite but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim to be a follower of Christ while you follow a false prophet why pushed demonic doctrine.
 

Christian Soldier

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Gospel literally means GOOD NEWS.

Gospel means "good news" or "good story" and originates from the Greek word euangélion and the Old English word godspel. In a religious context, it refers to the "good news" of Jesus Christ,
source: Gemini



The gospel is the good news that anyone who so wishes can be saved unto eternal life.

When we preach the good news to someone, we tell them that they can choose to live eternity with God.

The problem here CS...is that in reformed/calvinist theology there is no good news...
only the bad news that a person CANNOT decide for God and save himself.


They might have done some good works.....
but Jesus states why they will not be saved.....just keep reading - the bible answers all questions.

Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART
FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Good works will not save us,,,but belief in Jesus - which will include good behavior as HE taught.

But YOU and I DO know the gospel.
And it is the following good news:

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Acts 16:31
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,

You post the Calvinist belief system....
so you can consider yourself a calvinist.



How sad.
We should be preaching the gospel to unbelievers so as to give them the opportunity to be saved.

Jesus said to go into all the world and preach the gospel.
Mark 16:15

Paul said:
Romans 1:16
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.



The gospel is the power of God for salvation.
It is the good news.
As I tried to explain already but you totally missed the point as usual, because you only accept the false Arminian version of the gospel.

How did you miss my point that the gospel is the best news that Gods elect will ever hear and it is the worst news for those whom God did not elect for salvation. You simply can't get around that fact, because God said it and I believe but you only believe what your idol Jacob Arminius taught.

The gospel is foolishness to those God did not chose to save before time began. That's what God said and you reject Gods Word at your own peril.
 

Christian Soldier

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Another Calvinist belief -
We must have faith first in order to believe.

WHOSOEVER believes WILL be saved.

We are saved BY FAITH.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;


We receive the gift of salvation because of God's grace...through faith.


Paul teaches that we are to repent in order to be saved.
Acts 2:38
38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


John 1:12
12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,


First we receive Jesus...
Believe in His name

AND THEN
We become children of God.

THIS is the order for salvation.

The above is NOT what the OT or the NT teaches.
The bible teaches that we are to SEEK God: (of course while we are dead in our sins).

Matthew 6:33
33But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.


Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.


Jeremiah 29:13
13You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.


Let's look at your verse: (exactly as YOU posted it)


2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


God has chosen us from the beginning....
FOR SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....

God called us THROUGH THE GOSPEL - THE GOOD NEWS....
so that we may gain the glory of Jesus Christ.

God does not choose WHO....
but He did predestinate for:
METHOD
or
PURPOSE

We will be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....
THIS has been predestinated.

Because God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of Him.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who
desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Every one of your statements is Antichrist to the core. You always state the opposite of what God said. You claim that salvation is by your faith, but God said His people are saved by grace.
I can't believe how rebellious and blasphemous you are to call God a liar and set your word as being the truth and Gods Word lies.

God promised to torment those who do what you do, in the lake of fire for all eternity and you mock God, with no fear.

The rest of your post is pushing the demonic doctrine known as the "saved by works". There's no point in rebuking you for pushing demonic doctrine as it's clear you don't believe anything Gods has said.
 

rvmb

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Who are you trying to fool here. You begin by admitting that you don't know what the true gospel is, then you reject what God has said about the truth of the gospel and create your own conditions and requirements to earn salvation. This is pure blasphemy.

Nobody has the authority to change the gospel, I rebuke you for attempting to pervert the truth of the gospel. As an elect Saint of God, I must defend the gospel and stand against those who spread heresy.
What ? I quoted you verses, what verses confirm what you believe is the true Gospel ?
 

Christian Soldier

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Let Scripture do the talking for you :-
Show the verses that teach who Christ chose as Apostle and Minister to believers today.
Christ chose 12 Apostles, they are all long dead and there have been no other Apostles since them and God hasn't spoken a Word to mankind for the past 2000 years. So all we have today is the same 2000 year old scriptures and nothing more
 

rvmb

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Acts 9:10-15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 - Christ chose Paul
Did Christ choose Acts 1:26 Ananias ?
 

Christian Soldier

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Acts 9:10-15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 - Christ chose Paul
Did Christ choose Acts 1:26 Ananias ?
Saul of Tarsus never met Jesus, so he was not one of the 12 Apostles. You could argue that he unwittingly became an Apostle. Some still claim Jesus had 12 Apostles, they include Paul, and reject Judas Iscariot. But that argument is futile, as it's not a doctrinal issue.
 

Christian Soldier

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Is that the Gospel of Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Yes it is, us elect Saints of God didn't know He elected us for salvation, until He revealed to us. I believed the gospel, because God had given me the gift of faith before I heard it. Most of my friends who also heard the gospel at the sae time as I did, rejected it and they mocked God, because God didn't give them to gift of faith.

If God doesn't give a person the gift of faith, they will remain dead in their sin forever. So it has nothing to o with how smart you think you are, but it has everything to do with Gods choice and not yours.
 
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GodsGrace

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Your question is based on a false premise, that being Jacob Arminius' "saved by works" heresy, where by you must earn your salvation by keeping the law and doing good works and persevering in good works to the end.
As I stated in my previous post...
NO Christian I know believes we are saved by works.

The problem with your Arminian version of the gospel, is that it's not supported by a single verse of scripture. You are following the teaching of a heretic and asking me to find fault with it.
What I asked is this:
WHAT is the GOOD NEWS in the gospel IF God chooses whom He will?
HOW do I pronounce to ANYONE that they can be saved by the death of Jesus if they so choose?

Seems to me that the good news, in reformed theology, in ONLY for those that God chooses to be saved.
Instead, the NT teaches that ANYONE can be saved.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Acts 16:31
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,



In this case, the fault is you are presuming that the scripture you elude to is saying that we must keep the law and do good works to make our salvation sure, but the scripture says no such thing. It is in fact speaking to born again believers who are already saved, it's not meant for people like Joseph Stalin of Adolf Hitler, as you're suggesting.

Could you please post the verse I used for your above statement.
If you're referring to the fact that we must obey God...I will stand by that and so will any other Christian.
Are you stating that we should not obey God??

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."



The scripture is an exhortation (encouragement) to remain steadfast in the faith

But why is any exhortation NECESSARY IF it is God who has predestinated you for salvation and that it is HE who will see to it that you persevere till the end??

An exhortation to remain steadfast in the faith is ONLY NECESSARY if it is by MY obedience to Jesus that I can remain saved....IF I do not fall into a life of sin as Paul states several times.

1 Corinthians 6:5-10
5 I say this to your shame. Is it
so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between * his brethren,
6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers
?
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why * not rather be wronged? Why * not rather be defrauded?
8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not
know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God
.


it's not a commandment or condition to earn salvation as you falsely claim it is. It's impossible for Born again believers, to lose their salvation. Yes I know your idol Jacob Arminius denied what God said and taught the opposite but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim to be a follower of Christ while you follow a false prophet why pushed demonic doctrine.
I don't know who Jacob Arminius is.
I did look him up but lost interest.

I follow Jesus of Nazareth.
HE brought the good news of salvation to all men who will believe in HIM.
He went to the cross to die for atonement of our sins.
He was resurrected to show that He was truly God.

Everyone who claims to be Christian should be following THIS Person.
 

GodsGrace

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As I tried to explain already but you totally missed the point as usual, because you only accept the false Arminian version of the gospel.

How did you miss my point that the gospel is the best news that Gods elect will ever hear and it is the worst news for those whom God did not elect for salvation. You simply can't get around that fact, because God said it and I believe but you only believe what your idol Jacob Arminius taught.

The gospel is foolishness to those God did not chose to save before time began. That's what God said and you reject Gods Word at your own peril.
Where in the NT does it state that the gospel is foolishness?

THIS is what the NT states:

Romans 1:15-16
15 So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


Paul is eager to preach the gospel because IT is the power for salvation to everyone who believes.




Romans 10:16-17
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.


Not everyone will heed the good news.
But Paul will continue to preach it because
FAITH COMES BY HEARING the word of Christ.
And heeding the good news of salvation.

The angel told Cornelius that Peter would speak words to him by which he could be saved.
Acts 11:14
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved,



The gospel is indeed good news for everyone...
and salvation for those who will listen and hear.
 

GodsGrace

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Every one of your statements is Antichrist to the core. You always state the opposite of what God said. You claim that salvation is by your faith, but God said His people are saved by grace.
I can't believe how rebellious and blasphemous you are to call God a liar and set your word as being the truth and Gods Word lies.

God promised to torment those who do what you do, in the lake of fire for all eternity and you mock God, with no fear.

The rest of your post is pushing the demonic doctrine known as the "saved by works". There's no point in rebuking you for pushing demonic doctrine as it's clear you don't believe anything Gods has said.
All I did was to post scripture CS.
Can you not even support, biblically, what you believe to be true?

It's rather sad that you believe scripture to be demonic.
I believe this is blashphemy --- attributing to God the works of Satan.
and what could be more God-like than the NT?

It's so not Christianly of you to threaten me with hellfire for posting scripture.
Maybe this is why YOU never post any - fear of hellfire?

When one cannot respond properly...they move to personal attacks.

I'll post my entire reply to you again...
IF you should care to respond WITH SCRIPTURE.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We must have faith first in order to believe.

WHOSOEVER believes WILL be saved.

We are saved BY FAITH.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;


We receive the gift of salvation because of God's grace...through faith.


Paul teaches that we are to repent in order to be saved.
Acts 2:38
38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


John 1:12
12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,


First we receive Jesus...
Believe in His name

AND THEN
We become children of God.

THIS is the order for salvation.

The above is NOT what the OT or the NT teaches.
The bible teaches that we are to SEEK God: (of course while we are dead in our sins).

Matthew 6:33
33But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.


Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.


Jeremiah 29:13
13You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.


Let's look at your verse: (exactly as YOU posted it)


2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


God has chosen us from the beginning....
FOR SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....

God called us THROUGH THE GOSPEL - THE GOOD NEWS....
so that we may gain the glory of Jesus Christ.

God does not choose WHO....
but He did predestinate for:
METHOD
or
PURPOSE

We will be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION....
THIS has been predestinated.

Because God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of Him.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who
desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Mormons believe as you do regarding baptism, Ronald, at least to some extent. Now, I don't know if you believe this or not, but they believe that infants are born without sin and do not require baptism. But they do believe that they should be baptized when they are eight years old, as that is what they deem to be the age of accountability. They are wrong on both counts...
Well I have no clue what MOrmons believe about infant baptism. but I definitely do not believe babies are born without sin. But there is not one biblical warrnat to baptize infants.
 

rvmb

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Yes it is, us elect Saints of God didn't know He elected us for salvation, until He revealed to us. I believed the gospel, because God had given me the gift of faith before I heard it. Most of my friends who also heard the gospel at the sae time as I did, rejected it and they mocked God, because God didn't give them to gift of faith.

If God doesn't give a person the gift of faith, they will remain dead in their sin forever. So it has nothing to o with how smart you think you are, but it has everything to do with Gods choice and not yours.

1 Tim 2:4 If GOD's desire is for all to be saved then why would GOD choose who isn't ?
Eph 1:13 .. after that ye heard the word of truth...ye were sealed --- Why would GOD CHOOSE who will hear ??
1 Cor 15:1-4 the Gospel by which believers ARE saved -- Again, if GOD's desire is for ALL to be saved then why would He choose who isn't ?
 

rvmb

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Saul of Tarsus never met Jesus, so he was not one of the 12 Apostles. You could argue that he unwittingly became an Apostle. Some still claim Jesus had 12 Apostles, they include Paul, and reject Judas Iscariot. But that argument is futile, as it's not a doctrinal issue.
I am unaware of any verses that teach Paul is one of the 12
Paul is part of the MYSTERY that was never known of prior to Christ appearing to Ananias Acts 9:15
 

Christian Soldier

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As I stated in my previous post...
NO Christian I know believes we are saved by works.


What I asked is this:
WHAT is the GOOD NEWS in the gospel IF God chooses whom He will?
HOW do I pronounce to ANYONE that they can be saved by the death of Jesus if they so choose?

Seems to me that the good news, in reformed theology, in ONLY for those that God chooses to be saved.
Instead, the NT teaches that ANYONE can be saved.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Acts 16:31
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,





Could you please post the verse I used for your above statement.
If you're referring to the fact that we must obey God...I will stand by that and so will any other Christian.
Are you stating that we should not obey God??

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."



But why is any exhortation NECESSARY IF it is God who has predestinated you for salvation and that it is HE who will see to it that you persevere till the end??

An exhortation to remain steadfast in the faith is ONLY NECESSARY if it is by MY obedience to Jesus that I can remain saved....IF I do not fall into a life of sin as Paul states several times.

1 Corinthians 6:5-10
5 I say this to your shame. Is it
so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between * his brethren,
6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers
?
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why * not rather be wronged? Why * not rather be defrauded?
8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not
know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God
.



I don't know who Jacob Arminius is.
I did look him up but lost interest.

I follow Jesus of Nazareth.
HE brought the good news of salvation to all men who will believe in HIM.
He went to the cross to die for atonement of our sins.
He was resurrected to show that He was truly God.

Everyone who claims to be Christian should be following THIS Person.
No Christian you know admits that they believe in the heretical (saved by works) version of the gospel. They deny it, but their theology reveals the awful that they actually do believe in the gospel according to Jacob Arminius.

You remind me of the Apostle Peter, when he denied knowing the Lord Jesus. He denied knowing Him thrice, in one night, just as you deny knowing your teacher, Jacob Arminius. It's no use denying, there are witnesses who saw you professing faith in his version of the gospel.

Why do you have a problem with God choosing to do as He pleases with His own creation, I'm sorry to see your feelings are hurt because God didn't ask for your opinion or approval for anything He does. I can feel your wrath, I can imagine you saying "How dare you".

I can assurer you that God will never ever consider any advice you have to offer Him. Mans advice is like offering God our dung and our best works are like offering Him our filthy stinking rags.

You say you don't believe in the "saved by works", but a few paragraphs later you say "you must do works, or you won't be saved". You should read your posts before you click "post reply", you don't need me to expose your false doctrine, you do a great job all by yourself.

 

Christian Soldier

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Where in the NT does it state that the gospel is foolishness?

THIS is what the NT states:

Romans 1:15-16
15 So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


Paul is eager to preach the gospel because IT is the power for salvation to everyone who believes.




Romans 10:16-17
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.


Not everyone will heed the good news.
But Paul will continue to preach it because
FAITH COMES BY HEARING the word of Christ.
And heeding the good news of salvation.

The angel told Cornelius that Peter would speak words to him by which he could be saved.
Acts 11:14
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved,



The gospel is indeed good news for everyone...
and salvation for those who will listen and hear.
This is why I have been encouraging you to join a bible study class for beginners. You don't even know the popular verses of scripture, so how do you expect to go toe to toe with someone like my self who has been attending a weekly bible study for many years

I also used to ask silly questions, but I was advised to listen more and talk less. That's the best way to learn. You ask many invalid questions, and that exposes your lack of knowledge and understanding.

1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God". This verse states that the message of the cross is seen as foolish by those who do not believe, but is considered the power of God by believers.

The above verse mentions "the message of the cross" this is referring to the gospel of the Lord Jesus.
 

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