WHAT RESURRECTION HAS HAPPENED?

[Doug]

[2Timothy 2:17 KJV] "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;" [2Ti 2:18 KJV] "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."............What resurrection is in view here?

Jesus will raise those in him at the last day, which I say is after the tribulation...........[John 6:44 KJV] "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.".........Here are the events that will occur after the tribulation..........[Matthew 24:29 KJV] "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"..........If the resurrection occurs along with these spectacular events happening, who could miss it. How could Hymenaeus and Philetus say the resurrection happened when no one could miss seeing these events? They must have spoken of another resurrection. They were saying the rapture happened. The resurrection of the body of Christ occurs at the rapture..........[1Corinthians 15:52 KJV] "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." [1Corinthians 15:53 KJV] "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[2Timothy 2:17 KJV] "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;" [2Ti 2:18 KJV] "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."............What resurrection is in view here?

Jesus will raise those in him at the last day, which I say is after the tribulation...........[John 6:44 KJV] "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.".........Here are the events that will occur after the tribulation..........[Matthew 24:29 KJV] "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"..........If the resurrection occurs along with these spectacular events happening, who could miss it. How could Hymenaeus and Philetus say the resurrection happened when no one could miss seeing these events? They must have spoken of another resurrection. They were saying the rapture happened. The resurrection of the body of Christ occurs at the rapture..........[1Corinthians 15:52 KJV] "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." [1Corinthians 15:53 KJV] "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality."

The resurection Paul is speaking of here is the resurrection of dead church saints at the rapture.

 

[Doug]

The resurection Paul is speaking of here is the resurrection of dead church saints at the rapture.

Yes Ron thats right but we who are alive will be given a resurrected body at the rapture

 

[LoveYeshua]

[2Timothy 2:17 KJV] "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;" [2Ti 2:18 KJV] "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."............What resurrection is in view here?

Jesus will raise those in him at the last day, which I say is after the tribulation...........[John 6:44 KJV] "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.".........Here are the events that will occur after the tribulation..........[Matthew 24:29 KJV] "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"..........If the resurrection occurs along with these spectacular events happening, who could miss it. How could Hymenaeus and Philetus say the resurrection happened when no one could miss seeing these events? They must have spoken of another resurrection. They were saying the rapture happened. The resurrection of the body of Christ occurs at the rapture..........[1Corinthians 15:52 KJV] "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." [1Corinthians 15:53 KJV] "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality."

The resurrection that Paul’s followers argue about becomes confusing only when people do not stay with the words of Jesus. Jesus makes the resurrection very simple.

Jesus said again and again that He will raise His people at the last day. He never spoke of a secret event or a hidden rapture. He only taught one resurrection for His followers.

John 6:40 says, “I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:44 and 6:54 say the same thing.

Jesus also gave the timing. He said this resurrection comes after the tribulation. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus said, “Immediately after the tribulation” the great signs in the heavens will appear. Then in Matthew 24:31 He said He will send His angels with a loud trumpet and gather His people. This is the same moment He raises the dead. It is loud, visible, and seen by all. Nothing about it is secret or hidden.

Because of this, no one can say the resurrection already happened. The tribulation has not come, the heavenly signs have not appeared, Jesus has not returned, and the dead have not been raised. When Jesus comes, the whole world will know. He said His coming will shine like lightning across the sky.

So when some men in the early days claimed “the resurrection already happened,” they were simply wrong. They were not talking about another resurrection. They were denying the clear words of Jesus. Jesus warned about this kind of confusion when He said, “If anyone says to you, ‘Here is the Christ,’ or ‘There,’ do not believe it.”

DO not make this same mistake. some are trying to fit a secret rapture into the Bible, but Jesus never taught a secret rapture. Jesus taught one resurrection, one return, after the tribulation, known to all.

This is the truth Jesus gave, and His words are the ones we follow.

 

[David in NJ]

The resurection Paul is speaking of here is the resurrection of dead church saints at the rapture.

Do you know why your statement here is false and DECEPTIVE???

Paul never said "the resurrection at the rapture"

Even a subtle lie is a LIE and displeases God and cause division in the Body of Christ.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Doug]

Jesus said again and again that He will raise His people at the last day. He never spoke of a secret event or a hidden rapture. He only taught one resurrection for His followers.

Jesus didnt reveal the rapture because it was a mystery hid in God not made known until Jesus revealed it to Paul

[1Co 15:51 KJV] "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus didnt reveal the rapture because it was a mystery hid in God not made known until Jesus revealed it to Paul

[1Co 15:51 KJV] "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Here is what Jesus said:

John 5:28–29 (NKJV)
“Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth…”

Jesus teaches that a real resurrection will happen by His voice. This means people who died will rise again.

He also spoke about those who are alive when He returns:

Matthew 24:30–31 (NKJV)
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven… and He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect…”

This gathering of His people at His coming is the same moment Paul later describes. Jesus says His angels will collect His faithful ones from all the earth. Those who are alive will be gathered without dying first.

Jesus also said:

Luke 20:35–36 (NKJV)
“…those who are counted worthy to attain that age and the resurrection from the dead… nor can they die anymore…”

Here Jesus shows that after the resurrection, God’s people cannot die again. They will be changed into a new life that death cannot touch.

Jesus said it all before paul Jesus says at his return and not before.

 

[Doug]

Here is what Jesus said:

John 5:28–29 (NKJV)
“Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth…”

Jesus teaches that a real resurrection will happen by His voice. This means people who died will rise again.

He also spoke about those who are alive when He returns:

Matthew 24:30–31 (NKJV)
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven… and He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect…”

This gathering of His people at His coming is the same moment Paul later describes. Jesus says His angels will collect His faithful ones from all the earth. Those who are alive will be gathered without dying first.

Jesus also said:

Luke 20:35–36 (NKJV)
“…those who are counted worthy to attain that age and the resurrection from the dead… nor can they die anymore…”

Here Jesus shows that after the resurrection, God’s people cannot die again. They will be changed into a new life that death cannot touch.

Jesus said it all before paul Jesus says at his return and not before.

Israel has it's own resurrection which includes old testament saints and those who believed the preaching of Jesus and Peter and the apostles They will be raised to enter the kingdom and reign with Christ for a thousand years as priests [Rev 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you know why your statement here is false and DECEPTIVE???

Paul never said "the resurrection at the rapture"

Even a subtle lie is a LIE and displeases God and cause division in the Body of Christ.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So He didn't say the words. but He did say the dead will be raised and then we who are alive will also be caught up at the rapture. Stop being so nit-picky.

This is not a resurrection of the dead at jesus return from Rev. 20. This is the dead rising at the great catching up aka the rapture.

The dead in REv. 20 are raised after jesus lands on teh earth. These are Jesus in the clouds! No deception at all! Just bible truth.

 

[David in NJ]

So He didn't say the words. but He did say the dead will be raised and then we who are alive will also be caught up at the rapture. Stop being so nit-picky.

This is not a resurrection of the dead at jesus return from Rev. 20. This is the dead rising at the great catching up aka the rapture.

The dead in REv. 20 are raised after jesus lands on teh earth. These are Jesus in the clouds! No deception at all! Just bible truth.

Brother,
As you know Christ is for us so that we can both agree on His words.

John 10:35 - JESUS made it clear to us: the Scriptures cannot broken(altered in any way)

God is EXTREMELY "nit-picky" with His words - Matthew 5:18 and Proverbs 30:5-6
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Bible Truth is that JESUS comes on the "Last Day" which is His only 2nd Coming.
John 6:40 - this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Never change, misdirect or reverse Scripture:
a.) Christ has only one 2nd Coming = Gospel , 1 & 2nd Thess , Hebrews 9:28 , 1 Corinthians ch15
b.) the 2nd Coming is on the Last Day = Genesis , Gospel , Apostles , Revelation
c.) the dead in Christ Rise FIRST = Gospel , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Revelation ch6 and ch19, ch20

Shalom

 

[LoveYeshua]

Israel has it's own resurrection which includes old testament saints and those who believed the preaching of Jesus and Peter and the apostles They will be raised to enter the kingdom and reign with Christ for a thousand years as priests [Rev 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Do you realize you say? you wont be resurrected? are you Jewish? what will happen to you then if all is for Israel? what is left for the gentiles, breadcrumbs? lol. You could be part of the second resurrection the resurrection of judgment, you are teaching so much false doctrines here that it is a serious possibility.

 

[Doug]

Do you realize you say? you wont be resurrected? are you Jewish? what will happen to you then if all is for Israel? what is left for the gentiles, breadcrumbs? lol. You could be part of the second resurrection the resurrection of judgment, you are teaching so much false doctrines here that it is a serious possibility.

The body of Christ will be resurrected when we are gathered together with him in the air. I was only talking about Israel's resurrection and we dont have a part in it.

 

[David in NJ]

The body of Christ will be resurrected when we are gathered together with him in the air. I was only talking about Israel's resurrection and we dont have a part in it.

If you do not have part in the Resurrection of Israel, then you have no part in CHRIST = as such you will be cast out into darkness!!!

Run to the LIGHT and escape the darkness.

Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Those who speak evil(pre-trib) of God's Commandment have their minds blinded by religious idolatry.

They cannot SEE the LIGHT of TRUTH in the Gospel concerning His Coming.

 

[Doug]

If you do not have part in the Resurrection of Israel, then you have no part in CHRIST = as such you will be cast out into darkness!!!

Run to the LIGHT and escape the darkness.

Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Those who speak evil(pre-trib) of God's Commandment have their minds blinded by religious idolatry.

They cannot SEE the LIGHT of TRUTH in the Gospel concerning His Coming.

Those in Christ, alive and dead, will be changed at his coming in the air. This is our resurrection not the resurrection of Revelation [Rev 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
This resurrection says those raised will be priests of God and reign in the kingdom. Only believing Israel will be priests in the kingdom.
[Exo 19:5 KJV] "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:"
[Exo 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Brother,
As you know Christ is for us so that we can both agree on His words.

John 10:35 - JESUS made it clear to us: the Scriptures cannot broken(altered in any way)

God is EXTREMELY "nit-picky" with His words - Matthew 5:18 and Proverbs 30:5-6
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Bible Truth is that JESUS comes on the "Last Day" which is His only 2nd Coming.
John 6:40 - this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Never change, misdirect or reverse Scripture:
a.) Christ has only one 2nd Coming = Gospel , 1 & 2nd Thess , Hebrews 9:28 , 1 Corinthians ch15
b.) the 2nd Coming is on the Last Day = Genesis , Gospel , Apostles , Revelation
c.) the dead in Christ Rise FIRST = Gospel , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Revelation ch6 and ch19, ch20

Shalom

Well His return is at the end of the 70th week of Daniel aka the tribulation. when He fights the antichrist from Petra and defeats Him at jerusalem.

And there are two resurrections in the latter days.

Rev. 20:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And before teh first resurrection, there is the resurrection that takes place at the rapture for church saints.

 

[LoveYeshua]

The body of Christ will be resurrected when we are gathered together with him in the air. I was only talking about Israel's resurrection and we dont have a part in it.

Jesus never taught two different resurrections, one for Israel and another for His followers from all nations. He spoke of one resurrection for all who belong to Him. In John 5:28-29 Jesus said that all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come out, those who did good to the resurrection of life and those who did evil to the resurrection of judgment. He did not divide Israel from the rest of His disciples.

Jesus also said in John 6:40 that everyone who believes in Him and follows Him will be raised up at the last day. Again, He made no separate group and no different time. The resurrection is for all who belong to Him.

Jesus also said in Matthew 24:30-31 that when He returns, He will gather His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. He did not say this gathering is only for Israel. It is for all His true disciples.
Jesus Himself joins all His people together. Israel’s remnant who follow Him and the faithful from all nations are gathered in the same resurrection. There is no teaching from Jesus or His apostles that the nations have a different resurrection or that we do not have a part in what God promised. Jesus said in Matthew 8:11 that many will come from east and west and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom. This shows that the nations share the same hope as Israel’s faithful ones.

The idea of a separate resurrection for Israel and a different one for Christ’s followers from the nations does not come from Jesus. It is a man-made idea. Jesus taught one people, one resurrection, one gathering at His coming.

 

[Doug]

Jesus never taught two different resurrections, one for Israel and another for His followers from all nations

He did thru Paul

 

[Doug]

He spoke of one resurrection for all who belong to Him. In John 5:28-29 Jesus said that all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come out, those who did good to the resurrection of life and those who did evil to the resurrection of judgment. He did not divide Israel from the rest of His disciples.

You have to rightly divide scripture. Jesus did not reveal the rapture in his earthly ministry. All that were dead by believing Jesus and the apostles would be resurrected at his coming. This would not include the body of Christ he was only speaking of those saved before the body of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus never taught two different resurrections, one for Israel and another for His followers from all nations. He spoke of one resurrection for all who belong to Him. In John 5:28-29 Jesus said that all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come out, those who did good to the resurrection of life and those who did evil to the resurrection of judgment. He did not divide Israel from the rest of His disciples.

Jesus also said in John 6:40 that everyone who believes in Him and follows Him will be raised up at the last day. Again, He made no separate group and no different time. The resurrection is for all who belong to Him.

Jesus also said in Matthew 24:30-31 that when He returns, He will gather His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. He did not say this gathering is only for Israel. It is for all His true disciples.
Jesus Himself joins all His people together. Israel’s remnant who follow Him and the faithful from all nations are gathered in the same resurrection. There is no teaching from Jesus or His apostles that the nations have a different resurrection or that we do not have a part in what God promised. Jesus said in Matthew 8:11 that many will come from east and west and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom. This shows that the nations share the same hope as Israel’s faithful ones.

The idea of a separate resurrection for Israel and a different one for Christ’s followers from the nations does not come from Jesus. It is a man-made idea. Jesus taught one people, one resurrection, one gathering at His coming.

ONE for All and All in ONE = Gospel , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Corinthians ch15 , Revelation

 

[Doug]

Jesus also said in John 6:40 that everyone who believes in Him and follows Him will be raised up at the last day. Again, He made no separate group and no different time. The resurrection is for all who belong to Him.

The thing is you havent been taught that there is prophecy and mystery divisions in the Bible. In prophecy the resurrection of believing Israel was revealed and taught by Jesus, but the mystery was not yet revealed that there would be a body of believers with a separate resurrection, so Jesus didnt teach it. It was revealed in due time thru Paul.