Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

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Marilyn C

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And? The brethren are Christians (Jews and Gentiles), not mere ethnic Jews.
And `all the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats...` (Matt. 25: 32)

The NATIONS are the Gentiles. So where are the Jews?
 

Scott Downey

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Just to be clear. Are you telling me that the Body of Christ will be in the graves and later go to the Judgment, the Great White Throne?
There is only one judgment Day and it is when Christ returns.
Look at what Paul says in Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Look at what Paul says in 2 Tim 4
KJ21
I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom:
ASV
I charge thee in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
AMP
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
AMPC
I charge [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom:
NKJV
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

Look at what Jesus says in Matthew 25

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations​

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Multiple judgment Days, by multiple divinities, is not scriptural, God the Father judges no one.
I know some teach a split judgement day and separations in time, but it is not in the text anywhere.
Multiple judgment Days separated by 1000 years of time, is a man made doctrine or a doctrine of devils.
 
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Scott Downey

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And `all the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats...` (Matt. 25: 32)

The NATIONS are the Gentiles. So where are the Jews?
Jews are formed a nation today are they not?
They call it the State of Israel.

The 'body of Christ' in their graves? i assume you mean His church. Their physical bodies are in the graves, to deny that means a person is insane. Go dig up a grave, the bones you will find, if the earth has not dissolved them.

Their departed spirits fled their dead body, if they were saved spirits, they went to be with Jesus, conscious in heaven. If unsaved they went down to hell and are conscious in some kind of torment to await the Day of judgment.
That Revelation 20 judgment Day is one and the same judgement taught in many different scriptures.
 

WPM

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And `all the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats...` (Matt. 25: 32)

The NATIONS are the Gentiles. So where are the Jews?

He said all nations will be judged when He comes - that includes Israel. God is no respecter of persons today. There is no chosen nation outside of the Church of Jesus Christ. Circumcision or uncircumcision avails nothing today.
 
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rwb

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So rwb, just to be clear, are you also telling me that the Body of Christ will go to the Great White Throne judgment?

The physical body of Christ is the "first resurrection" unto physical IMMORTAL LIFE! Christ in physical body was seen ascending to heaven after He was risen from the grave. The cross and resurrection of Christ prove that by His blood He made atonement for sin, and through His bodily resurrection He has power over death. None other of mankind shall be bodily resurrected mortal or immortally until the hour that is coming when the last/seventh trumpet sounds and time given this earth to be saved shall be no longer. Only we mortal human beings who have spiritually been born again have partaken of Christ's immortal life.
 
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rwb

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I agree with most of your good comments. We just seem to disagree on the timing.

So if we, the Body of Christ are judged and given rewards what about those from the graves who are sinners?

Christians don't receive rewards for doing that which is our duty. The great reward Christians shall receive is belonging to Christ FOREVER!

Ephesians 2:10 (KJV) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 15:16-17 (KJV) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Luke 6:35 (KJV) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Genesis 15:1 (KJV) After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

At the GWTJ only the dead made alive again in mortal body to stand before God are being judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. Christians will also be standing before God already clothed in the righteousness of Christ, having been physically resurrected in immortal and incorruptible bodies fit for everlasting life on the new earth.

At the GWTJ Christians having already been judged in life before we died, have been judged according to the work of Christ, not according to our good deeds. The judgment throne separates the good from the evil and man shall receive judgment against faithlessness or judgment for faith we have through Christ. It will be judgment for "enter into the joy of the Lord" or judgment against "cast into the lake of fire" that is the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 

WPM

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And `all the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats...` (Matt. 25: 32)

The NATIONS are the Gentiles. So where are the Jews?
  1. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase “all the earth” in Genesis 18:25?
  2. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "every man" in Matthew 16:27?
  3. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrases "them which do iniquity" and "the righteous" in Matthew 13:39-43?
  4. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase “ all nations" in Matthew 25:32?
  5. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrases "ye cursed" and "the righteous" in Matthew 25:41 & 46?
  6. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrases "the quick" (or living) and "the dead" in Acts 10:42, 2 Timothy 4:1 & 1 Peter 4:5?
  7. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "the world" in Acts 17:30-31?
  8. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "all" in Romans 14:10 & 2 Corinthians 5:10?
  9. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "every one" in Romans 14:12?
  10. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "every man" in 1 Corinthians 3:8, 11-15, 4:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10-11 & Revelation 22:12?
  11. In your opinion, is there any human exempted from the phrase "the earth" in Revelation 14:14-20?
 
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WPM

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Christians don't receive rewards for doing that which is our duty. The great reward Christians shall receive is belonging to Christ FOREVER!
Yes we do. See my post above.
 
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rwb

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And `all the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats...` (Matt. 25: 32)

The NATIONS are the Gentiles. So where are the Jews?

Since the advent of Christ there is no longer a separation between Jew and Gentile nations. His sheep represent all believers, and the goats represent the wicked.

Matthew 25:33-34 (KJV) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels [messengers]: I bracketed angels because angel is defined messenger whether spirit being or human being

There is nothing in the parable that would make us believe this is only a partial judgment for some sheep and some goats. The Judgment is for ALL of His sheep as well as all who are goats IOW good and evil.
 
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WPM

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I believe Scripture shows us we receive reward(s) in this life, and at the Judgment Christ shall be our great reward!
We are rewarded for our works when He comes. See above.
 
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rwb

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We are rewarded for our works when He comes. See above.

Have you ever noticed 'reward' connected to judgment day is always singular?

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 5:12 (KJV) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Revelation 11:18 (KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

To those who have done good (faithful saints) immortal life, those who have done evil (unbelievers) second death.
 

Scott Downey

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Watering, Working, Warning​

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul follows Christ's own doctrine on rewards and their lack of rewards.

Some of the 'righteous' are scarcely saved, some have an abundant welcome. God is not a communist, His rewards for some people's works are greater than others. The fire of God will test your work.

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now

“If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
 
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WPM

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Have you ever noticed 'reward' connected to judgment day is always singular?

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 5:12 (KJV) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Revelation 11:18 (KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

To those who have done good (faithful saints) immortal life, those who have done evil (unbelievers) second death.
We enter into eternal life now. That is our fixed inheritance. We are not going to be judged by our works for that. Our service will be judged, our obedience or lack thereof. That is what we are rewarded for.
 

Scott Downey

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Luke 19 on rewards and punishment
When the Master returns he judges the gains of the people He entrusted with His money

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
 

WPM

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Have you ever noticed 'reward' connected to judgment day is always singular?

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 5:12 (KJV) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Revelation 11:18 (KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

To those who have done good (faithful saints) immortal life, those who have done evil (unbelievers) second death.
There are degrees of rewards. Some barely make it. Their reward is little.

Jesus warned in Rev 3:11: Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

This is a strange admonition! This reference to “thy crown” is NOT talking about our salvation. The phrase “thy crown” means “thy reward.” The only way your reward can be taken by another is if you refuse to fulfil your assignment on this earth.

In Luke 19:12-26 Jesus describes 3 types of men on judgment day. All were given one pound and expected to increase it for God’s glory. This is not talking about money. It is a parable. I believe it relates to the abilities God given us and the opportunities we had to shine for Him. Essentially, did you do what God wanted you to do in life? Were you Christ-centered or self-centered?

Jesus teaches:

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin
(He didn’t do anything with what God had given him)
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.


Jesus said:

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


The fire of God will test our works. It will expose what was self and not of God in life. Some believers barely make it. Paul shows that believers can lose their reward because of laziness.
 
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rwb

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There are degrees of rewards. Some barely make it. Their reward is little.

Jesus warned in Rev 3:11: Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

This is a strange admonition! This reference to “thy crown” is NOT talking about our salvation. The phrase “thy crown” means “thy reward.” The only way your reward can be taken by another is if you refuse to fulfil your assignment on this earth.

In Luke 19:12-26 Jesus describes 3 types of men on judgment day. All were given one pound and expected to increase it for God’s glory. This is not talking about money. It is a parable. I believe it relates to the abilities God given us and the opportunities we had to shine for Him. Essentially, did you do what God wanted you to do in life? Were you Christ-centered or self-centered?

Jesus teaches:

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin
(He didn’t do anything with what God had given him)
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.


Jesus said:

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


The fire of God will test our works. It will expose what was self and not of God in life. Some believers barely make it. Paul shows that believers can lose their reward because of laziness.

Mark 10:30 (KJV) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Luke 18:30 (KJV) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

2 Corinthians 6:10 (KJV) As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Luke 17:10 (KJV)
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

1 Timothy 6:6-8 (KJV) But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
 

WPM

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Mark 10:30 (KJV) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Luke 18:30 (KJV) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

2 Corinthians 6:10 (KJV) As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Luke 17:10 (KJV)
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

1 Timothy 6:6-8 (KJV) But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
Of course! But we have already received the gift of eternal life now upon salvation. We are already eternal creatures. Jesus said in John 17:3: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

That eternal life does not stop in the life to come. It continues on forver.

Can you address the passages i presented that forbid your thesis?