WHAT RESURRECTION HAS HAPPENED?
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
rightly divide is an invention of man Doug please drop it.
The phrase “rightly divide” is not a biblical method; it is a human invention.
The most famous version comes from 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV):
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
The problem is in translation. The Greek word here is orthotomounta (ὀρθοτομοῦντα), which literally means “cut straight” or “to handle accurately”, not a technical rule of dividing Scripture into categories.
So when people teach “rightly divide” as a method, like separating the law from grace, Israel from the church, or hidden mysteries from plain truths, this is an invention of man, because the text itself is not giving a method, it is encouraging careful and accurate handling of God’s Word.
Paul’s instruction is not giving a secret formula, but urging believers to study diligently, be approved by God, and carefully handle the message of truth. The problem comes when people take this phrase and invent systems that separate the Bible into hidden mysteries, different “dispensations,” or rules that were never taught by Jesus or the apostles. Jesus Himself never created such divisions; He explained the Old Testament plainly, showed that God’s commandments are still His will (Matthew 5:17–19), and connected prophecy directly to Himself (Luke 24:27). The Old Testament also encourages careful study and obedience rather than hidden rules (Deuteronomy 17:19–20; Psalm 119:105; Proverbs 2:2–5). God’s Word is meant to be read, understood, and obeyed through faith and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. True “right division” is simply faithful, careful handling of Scripture, understanding its meaning, and living by it, just as Jesus and His disciples demonstrated.
this is a ball and chain for you Doug and prevents you from knowing the truth. You have been corrupted by false Doctrine. Please revise your position on this.
in 2 peter3, Peter warns that Paul is hard to understand, understand now? It is because of this i do not often quote Paul.
It is Biblical
[Luk 1:70 KJV] "As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"............the prophets spoke all that would come SINCE the world began
[Rom 16:25 KJV] "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"..................The mystery was kept secret SINCE the world began
The prophets spoke since the world began, but could not have spoken of the mystery because it was kept secret since the world began. The mystery could not have been spoken of, and at the same time be kept secret.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Do you realize what you said here?
What you said is part truth and part lie!!!
Indeed the prophets spoke of the "mystery" of Christ = but they did not FULLY realize 'How, When and thru Whom'.
SEE here: 1 Peter 1:10-12
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
To rightly divide you have to know what was prophecy and what was mystery. You have to know that Jesus came only to Israel to save his people and spoke of the kingdom on earth promised them. You have to know that Jesus brought in a new dispensation thru Paul . You have to know Israel inherits the earth and we inherit heaven.
Going back to the resurrection I dont remember if I posted this to you but will do so.
We arent raised along with Israel. Here is Israel's resurrection.. Their resurrection includes the old testament saints, the saints who believed from the preaching of Jesus and Peter and the apostles, and those saved in the tribulation..................[Rev 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."...............notice those resurrected are priests of God. Only Israel was said to be priests in the kingdom................[Exo 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Look closely at 1 Peter............searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ .........his sufferings death and resurrection were not a mystery /secret /hidden it was prophesized
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
There is only One Resurrection for the Jew and the Gentile who are in Christ.
Why are you speaking against the words and commandment of the Lord Jesus Christ?
SEE here = John 6:35-40
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i SEE
You NEED to look CLOSER = It Says the prophets had the SPIRIT of CHRIST Speaking thru them of His Coming and Suffering and GLORY
They did not know the details = "what manner of time" the SPIRIT was indicating thru their prophetic ministry and writings.
SEE = "the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating"
indicate /ĭn′dĭ-kāt″/
transitive verb
- To show the way to or the direction of; point out.
"an arrow indicating north; indicated the right road by nodding toward it." - To serve as a sign, symptom, or token of; signify.
- To suggest or demonstrate the necessity, expedience, or advisability of.
"The symptoms indicate immediate surgery."
Last edited:
Here is an example of rightly dividing
[Luk 4:17 KJV] "And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,"
[Luk 4:18 KJV] "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"
[Luk 4:19 KJV] "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
[Luk 4:20 KJV] "And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him."
[Luk 4:21 KJV] "And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
Here is the passage in Isiah Jesus read from.......................
[Isa 61:1 KJV] "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;"
[Isa 61:2 KJV] "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;"..........................Jesus closed the book and did not read "the day of vengeance" because he was not applying this part to himself at that time. Rightly dividing does not apply all scripture to us.
The teaching you shared is built on a mistake. Your claims that when Jesus stopped reading Isaiah and did not read the part about God’s vengeance, means “rightly dividing” and that “not all Scripture is for us.” This is wrong. Jesus did not divide Scripture into pieces for different groups or different times. He did not teach different rules for different ages. He simply showed that one part of Isaiah was being fulfilled that very day, and the rest would be fulfilled later. This is not dividing the Bible into dispensations. This is showing the order of prophecy, because many prophecies have two moments: one moment happens while the Messiah is on earth, and the second moment happens when He returns. Yhis prophecy is one of them, Jesus was not separating Scripture so that people could say, “this is not for us.” He was showing the timing of God’s plan.
Jesus Himself teaches the opposite of what this doctrine claims. He said, “Man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” He did not say “some words,” “the words for your time,” or “the words for your dispensation.” He said “every word.” Jesus also said, “The Scripture cannot be broken.” If Jesus says Scripture cannot be broken, no one has the right to break it into sections and tell people, “this part is not for you.” Jesus never taught that His words, the prophets’ words, or the commandments of God only apply to certain groups. He called all people to listen and obey. He said, “Whoever hears My sayings and does them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.” He did not say whoever hears the sayings meant for his dispensation. He said whoever.
The common root of the error is always the same. People create man-made divisions so they can escape obedience to God’s commandments. Every time someone says, “This part is not for us,” “This was only for Israel,” “This belongs to another age,” it always leads to the same result: they remove the force and the authority of God’s commandments. Instead of obeying God, they hide behind a system that tells them obedience is optional. Jesus never made such a system. Jesus obeyed the Father perfectly, and He taught obedience to everyone who follows Him.
The example used from Luke 4 and Isaiah 61 is not “rightly dividing.” Jesus did not close the scroll to say, “this part of the prophecy does not apply to you.” He closed the scroll because He had finished reading the part that was fulfilled that day. The rest of the prophecy will be fulfilled when He returns in judgment. This is not dividing the Bible; it is simply showing that Scripture has stages of fulfillment. To use this moment to teach that “not all Scripture is for us” is to twist the meaning of what Jesus actually did. In that scene, Jesus was showing that all Scripture points to Him, not that parts of Scripture are meant to be removed from people.
When someone uses Jesus’ words to escape God’s commandments, Jesus answers this kind of teaching directly. He said, “Why do you break the commandment of God because of your tradition?” Dispensational dividing is a tradition of man, not a teaching of Jesus. It breaks the unity of Scripture and leads people away from obedience. Jesus did not divide the Bible. Men did, and because of that division, people think they do not need to obey the commandments of God anymore.
This is the danger. This is the error. And this is why such teaching must be rebuked.
Jesus was saying this to Israel not us. Believing Israel will be raised on the last day.
Here is the last day...................[Rev 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."..........they are to be priests. Only Israel is said to be priests...............
[Exo 19:5 KJV] "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:"
[Exo 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Doug, you are adding to the words of God which HE never said AND it also is denying what God actually did say and command.
LISTEN to JESUS and have faith in His words: "All that the FATHER GIVES ME" = present tense = ongoing
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes = present tense = ongoing
in him should not perish but have eternal life."
"This gospel will be = present/future/ongoing = preached to all nations and then the end will come."
The FATHER continues to GIVE souls to CHRIST for Salvation for all nations.
Last edited:
That doesnt change the fact that the prophets were not speaking or knew any of the mysteries revealed by Paul; how could they if scripture says it was kept secret since the world began and what the prophets spoke was known from when the world began. Scripture says this not me
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Paul, and myself, understand what the OT prophets wrote down by the Holy Spirit.
Paul READ the OT Scriptures and the LORD opened his understanding by His Holy Spirit.
Paul, and us Today can understand what the OT prophets spoke and wrote down thru the Holy Spirit of Truth.
SEE = JESUS and Paul and Peter and John all quoted from the OT Scriptures for the Basis/Foundation of what they spoke and wrote to us Today.
Most 'christians' today have not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, as were the Apostles and many others as seen in the Acts.
If every word applies to us then do you offer sacrifices on an alter?
All scripture is for us to benefit and learn but not all is for us to apply to ourselves
But look at this verse...............[Jhn 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.",,,,,,,,,,,they had to believe only on his name not his death and resurrection for salvation
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus certainly did divide scripture to different times..............[Luk 4:21 KJV] "And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.".........he said that it was fulfilled THIS DAY...............[Isa 61:2 KJV] "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;"...........he did not say THE DAY of vengeance was fulfilled THIS DAY, it will be as you say fulfilled in a different day. How is this not saying scripture wont be fulfilled at a different time? This is an example of dispensations. It is also an example of right division he only applied half a sentence.
Jesus did command different rules. Here is an example........[Mat 10:5 KJV] "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:",,,,,,He said dont go to Gentiles and later he said to go to them................[Mat 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Mat 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."
Those that heard Jesus read Isaiah, if they rightly divided that verse, would not say the day of vengeance was for them; it was to be applied to another generation and another time.
Here is the reason I asked if you sacrificed animals. I certainly didnt think you did, nor should anyone today. My point was you, by not sacrificing, are rightly dividing scripture. You are saying the commandment to offer sacrifices was not for me to obey; it was for old testament Israel.
Similar threads
