The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.

[quietthinker]

Again, spoken to the Jews.
Isn't there something about all Israel being saved at some point?

Yes, all Israel. It's not just speaking of an ethnicity otherwise it could be deducted that it includes the wicked Jews; rather it is speaking of those deemed God's people (those who have contended with God and man and prevailed) throughout history.....as did Jacob who subsequently had his name changed to Israel. I'm sure you know the story.

 

[amigo de christo]

We know it is God's desire that everyone will repent, God notable sacrificed a part of Himself for that reason.

What if an unbeliever standing in Judgment Before the Great White Throne and begging for mercy, will God relent ?

Isn't that what God always wanted?

Human reasoning . Now i am sure that does make sense to the mind of man .
AND while it is very true GOD desired man to repent
DENY JESUS and prepare to be DENIED .
Now pe ter , paul and others were men . LETS look real closely at HOW
they went about preaching JESUS and warning all who rejected HIM .
Not to mention the very fact
that WHEN JESUS t old of HIS day , He didnt say okay workers of inquity , you got one more chance to repent .
IT was DEPART FROM ME I NEVER KNEW YOU .
Dont judge JESUS too harshly . REMEMBER IT WAS HE WHO actually took on our punishments
So JESUS aint the monster . and todays version of jesus , THAT IS THE MONSTER
Because that jesus sure seems to Lead this people astray and away FROM THE ONLY JESUS AND GOSPEL
that could have sav ed them and pumped out a lie it called love . Only the serpent would do that devin .
And while its true many choose the version of the serpents jesus , cause , well lets face it , IT DONT EXPOSE their sins
and it has promised the world all is well no ma tter what you beleive . But do remember
THE DEVIL DESIRES ONLY THE DEATH OF ALL . So i would not heed his jesus .
But i do have a very good idea . HOW ABOUT we all PREACH the DIRE and ABSOLUTE NECESSITY
TO BELEIVE ON JESUS , rather than give out some kind of false hope about a good ending . We sure
do not want to be co helpers to anyones second death . Do be encouraged devin . But ITS TIME
for the grave and serious men to arise and do all to help save at least some .

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, all Israel. It's not just speaking of an ethnicity otherwise it could be deducted that it includes the wicked Jews; rather it is speaking of those deemed God's people (those who have contended with God and man and prevailed) throughout history.....as did Jacob who subsequently had his name changed to Israel. I'm sure you know the story.

That scripture seems very specific to ethnic Israel. IMHO

Romans 11:25-27 NIV
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters,
so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part
until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
26 and in this way[a] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[b] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[c]

--- COMPARE ---

Isaiah 59:20-21 NIV
“The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the Lord.
21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord.
“My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words
that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips,
on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—
from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.

Isaiah 27:9 NIV
By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,
and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin:
When he makes all the altar stones
to be like limestone crushed to pieces,
no Asherah poles[a] or incense altars
will be left standing.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 NIV
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

 

[amigo de christo]

This warning speaks to a universal truth...God cannot be confined to a box, no matter how large.

While God has the power to save everyone, His righteousness and the gift of free will mean that only a relatively small number, compared to the billions who have lived, will be saved.

Much like adoption, the process is selective!

And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." Romans 8:23 (ESV)

Yes the process is selective . ITs called WHO SO EVER BELEIVES s hall be saved .
See how simple that is . As for the rest and things too high for me to know , I leave to GOD .
Let us preach what we do know .
IF one beleives They will be saved .
If one beleives not they will be damned . pretty simple .
Have you noticed this generation my friend .
Always bickering about the whys and how comes and what ifs ,
But i bet if anyone of them was drowning in the ocean
and i came along in a boat and said HERE grab ahold of this rope and bouy ,
they would not have started asking quesitons like , WELL HOW comes its red and why is the rope
not gray but white . HEck NO they would have grabbed on for dear life .
SO here is the reason why MAN will not grab ahold
of the life line OF JESUS CHRIST .
Because he loves his sin , An d does not want to be reproved . SO of ten he invents also another jesus
that will accept him and his deeds and promise to save him too . but as we both know
THAT jesus is not JESUS for JESUS is not the minstir of sin , of unbeleif or of a lie . the devil is .

 

[amigo de christo]

man i keep things so simple . i tell us so simple e ven a child could have grasped it .
yet many scholars and world wise men
sounding so intellectual , so wise , yet man do they use strifes of words and etc TO ONLY TWIST the simple truth .
JESUS neve said lest ye b ecome as world wise scholars ye shall not inherit the KINGDOM of GOD .
HE said lest ye become as children . And children SIMPLY BELEIVE , ev en if they do not understand all things , OH THEY BELIEVE
THE LORD . so yeah this church age can keep its scholars and its mighty wise worldy leaders .
As for me I CLING TO CHRIST and shall stay in the bible .

 

[quietthinker]

That scripture seems very specific to ethnic Israel. IMHO

Romans 11:25-27 NIV
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters,
so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part
until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
26 and in this way[a] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[b] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[c]

--- COMPARE ---

Isaiah 59:20-21 NIV
“The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the Lord.
21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord.
“My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words
that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips,
on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—
from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.

Isaiah 27:9 NIV
By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,
and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin:
When he makes all the altar stones
to be like limestone crushed to pieces,
no Asherah poles[a] or incense altars
will be left standing.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 NIV
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

When it says 'all Israel', do you think it includes the rebellious, the recalcitrant, ie, child sacrificers, those who give the intentional finger to God which the Prophets railed against....those who deliberately formulated and spread the lies denying Jesus resurrection?

 

[amigo de christo]

When it says 'all Israel', do you think it includes the rebellious, the recalcitrant, ie, child sacrificers, those who give the intentional finger to God which the Prophets railed against....those who deliberately formulated and spread the lies denying Jesus resurrection?

It means these .
What did the jailor come saying unto paul and silas .
SIRS what must i do to be saved .
BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and ye shall be saved .
ITS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO DID That my friend . all else just like all other gentiles WILL PERISH .
DENY JESUS , BE DENIED on HIS day . BUT repent to BELEIVE ON JESUS and SAVED YOU ARE my friend . pretty simple
if you ask me .

 

[amigo de christo]

The flesh profits nothing . And boy its about high time a lot of christendom learned that one
And started rather to POINT TO JESUS wh o does save . BELEIVE ON HIM

 

[amigo de christo]

We know it is God's desire that everyone will repent, God notable sacrificed a part of Himself for that reason.

What if an unbeliever standing in Judgment Before the Great White Throne and begging for mercy, will God relent ?

Isn't that what God always wanted?

Yes the process is selective . ITs called WHO SO EVER BELEIVES s hall be saved .
See how simple that is . As for the rest and things too high for me to know , I leave to GOD .
Let us preach what we do know .
IF one beleives They will be saved .
If one beleives not they will be damned . pretty simple .
Have you noticed this generation my friend .
Always bickering about the whys and how comes and what ifs ,
But i bet if anyone of them was drowning in the ocean
and i came along in a boat and said HERE grab ahold of this rope and bouy ,
they would not have started asking quesitons like , WELL HOW comes its red and why is the rope
not gray but white . HEck NO they would have grabbed on for dear life .
SO here is the reason why MAN will not grab ahold
of the life line OF JESUS CHRIST .
Because he loves his sin , An d does not want to be reproved . SO of ten he invents also another jesus
that will accept him and his deeds and promise to save him too . but as we both know
THAT jesus is not JESUS for JESUS is not the minstir of sin , of unbeleif or of a lie . the devil is .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you.

But I have the same desire as the Lord God, that all will be saved, is that wrong, what do you think ?



I have tried to find the Cost of Creation principle on the internet and it returned zero hits, perhaps you can explain what it is.

Verily verily i say unto thee
IF you truly do have the same desire as the LORD GOD that all would be sav ed
THEN w hy not Preach the same message HE DID .
I too have the same Holy spirit inspired desire that man does not perish but that he come to Christ and have eternal life .
SO its why i dont sit under ecumencial interfaith and preach a broad road
I PREACH JESUS an d the dire need to BELEIVE . cause i got good news devin , IF THEY DO repent TO BELEIVE ON HIM
well you just got your desire , A SOUL was saved .
B ut false love will save none . and that which is of anti christ will damn them all .

 

[Hiddenthings]

When it says 'all Israel', do you think it includes the rebellious, the recalcitrant, ie, child sacrificers, those who give the intentional finger to God which the Prophets railed against....those who deliberately formulated and spread the lies denying Jesus resurrection?

Only those who truly desire the New Covenant written on their hearts will endure. Those who cling to the Levitical priesthood will fade away, while only those aligned with the order of Melchizedek will share in eternal peace.

 

[St. SteVen]

When it says 'all Israel', do you think it includes the rebellious, the recalcitrant, ie, child sacrificers, those who give the intentional finger to God which the Prophets railed against....those who deliberately formulated and spread the lies denying Jesus resurrection?

Yes. I don't think there is a restriction on this promise.
It's a covenant to a WHOLE people. I don't think individual transgressions would over-ride that.
The individual transgressions will require consequences, of course. But no one should be discounted.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes. I don't think there is a restriction on this promise.
It's a covenant to a WHOLE people. I don't think individual transgressions would over-ride that.
The individual transgressions will require consequences, of course. But no one should be discounted.

what about Jews included in Revelation 6:15-16?

 

[Hiddenthings]

what about Jews included in Revelation 6:15-16?

For all others this section is speaking to the Roman Empire and describes the attitude of pagans previously in power, as they witnessed the
elevation of Constantine, the so-called "first Christian Emperor".

As pagans observed the so-called Christians who had risen to power, they assumed these leaders were the true representatives of Christ. Therefore, they believed that the victories associated with Constantine’s conquests were demonstrations of the Lamb’s power. It is worth noting that portraying the Lamb as capable of expressing wrath is not inconsistent with Christ’s character (Mark 3:5; Rev. 2:6).

"And from the wrath of the Lamb"

Big clue there Quiet if you have eyes to see!

 

[Hiddenthings]

This was the belief held by both pagans and apostate Christians. Pagans viewed Constantine’s triumph as a victory for Christianity and therefore a success for its founder. Apostate Christians, meanwhile, taught that the Church constituted the Kingdom of God on earth, and so they interpreted its rise to political power as the establishment of Christ’s earthly reign.

A Catholic Church history text, produced for use in its schools, describes Constantine’s conquest in these terms:

“In the year 313, he issued from Milan a decree granting toleration to Christianity, and shortly afterward he declared himself a Christian. Thus, after two and a half centuries of bitter persecution, the Church had triumphed, and the cross replaced the eagle on the standards of Rome.”

Undeniable history!

 

[quietthinker]

For all others this section is speaking to the Roman Empire and describes the attitude of pagans previously in power, as they witnessed the
elevation of Constantine, the so-called "first Christian Emperor".

As pagans observed the so-called Christians who had risen to power, they assumed these leaders were the true representatives of Christ. Therefore, they believed that the victories associated with Constantine’s conquests were demonstrations of the Lamb’s power. It is worth noting that portraying the Lamb as capable of expressing wrath is not inconsistent with Christ’s character (Mark 3:5; Rev. 2:6).

"And from the wrath of the Lamb"

Big clue there Quiet if you have eyes to see!

Sorry, I don't share your view Hidden. The context is the second coming of Jesus at the end of this age.

 

[JohnDB]

"Say what?"
"Love Judas? We hate Judas!"
"He betrayed our Lord! Why would we love Judas?"

Perhaps Jesus understood this better than we do.
As indicated in this scripture.

John 13:26-28 NIV
Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give
this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.”
Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.

Did Jesus love Judas?
If Jesus loved Judas, shouldn't we?

"To love a betrayer, a person who seeks your actual harm and
who slanders you, is a part of our faith (Luke 6:22; 1 Peter 4:4). It literally is
the story of Jesus Christ. Also a part of our faith is the separation between Holy and unholy,
as was stated previously, between friend and foes, which will lead to separation
even amongst family (Luke 12:53). Loving a person who seeks to harm us lays hot coals
on the heads of the betrayer (Romans 12:20), but it also is most Christ like
when done so. Love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8) and it creates a pathway
for redemption (2 Corinthians 5:16-21) as we see people as more than just
flesh and blood, we see them as souls to be redeemed." Source

/ @TonyChanYT

What exactly do you think the underlying sin Judas performed.

Let's review right quick.
Judas KNEW Jesus was the Messiah....AKA God's son. God Himself.

Judas witnessed the miracles firsthand. Knew that God could read minds and thoughts. See into the future and KNOW beyond all shadow of doubt what was going to happen.

Judas had seen Jesus walk unafraid through crowds that wanted to stone him....they were actively looking for rocks to throw.

Absolutely make fools out of some of the brightest theological minds that existed in Israel.

Betray with blessings?
Uhhhhh.....nope. Did Judas think that Jesus would actually be harmed? (Nope)

So....exactly what did Judas do that got him the title of "Son of Perdition".

Judas was helping himself to coins in the money bag used for giving to the poor and buying meals. Where was Judas and the money when Peter needed to pay the Temple Tax? John said Judas was a thief. Not exactly sure how he made that determination but since John said it....gotta be true. But Judas didn't steal out of need (his entire family would have provided every need he had including pocket money). Had to be out of desires for luxuries. Another Profiteer of/from God.

So....
What was Judas's major malfunction that earned him his title?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Sorry, I don't share your view Hidden. The context is the second coming of Jesus at the end of this age.

Revelation 6 is presented in continuous historical terms, same as the prophecy found in Daniel.

 

[quietthinker]

Revelation 6 is presented in continuous historical terms, same as the prophecy found in Daniel.

I don't think one needs to deduce that. Revelation zooms in on certain detail at different times.....it's not necessarily a continuous detailed timeline.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I don't think one needs to deduce that. Revelation zooms in on certain detail at different times.....it's not necessarily a continuous detailed timeline.

It's possible you have not been shown its telescopic view.


Once you look through it there is no going back!