And He goes gets her, every last member that makes up this bride.
It's baffling how humans want to complicate something that is so simple. God designed, created and owns everything. So He does as He pleases with His possessions.
Doctrine of Predestination
- Thread starter Big Boy Johnson
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It's baffling how humans want to complicate something that is so simple. God designed, created and owns everything. So He does as He pleases with His possessions.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I worked for the Billy Graham crusades and seen almost all.
Those that have chosen to believe the Gospel are the Chosen. They were predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed in the image of Christ.
They met the condition God demands to escape the wrath to come.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Wrong. You are in that box again. When God gives you a personal invitation for salvation, you are Chosen. You cannot choose to believe without the Father calling you. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation. You can have nothing to do with it; salvation is a free gift; you cannot brag you chose anything.
Thats only possible after one is born of God Jn 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Now to be of God is to be saved, born of God
False, they that were chosen first by God were chosen to believe the Gospel which calls them 2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thats the sequence
Sanctification of the Spirit follows being chosen, then belief of the truth after being called by the Gospel
The box I'm in is the one the apostle Paul put me in.
Paul plainly says in Rom. 10:16 that not all have obeyed the Gospel.
They have heard, but they chose not to believe.
Is it possible you are misunderstanding the Sovereignty of God?
They could not hear Him because they had no desire for the things of God.
We've been through this! These are Pharisees Christ is speaking to, they were the religious leaders of Israel but their desires were of themselves, not the things of God. The reason they could not hear His words.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I know what God has showed me in His word. I believe you want to put God in a box and limit Him. I've have seen some refuse the call. But I've also seen some run, like Jonah, from the call, but God puts them is a predicament and forces them to accept the call. Like one man, he refused and got a job in a sawmill. His job was to straighten the log as it went towards the saw. One time as he grabbed the log, a split opened and grabbed his fingers a closed up tight. He was heading towards the saw. Nobody could hear his screams, he started praying to Jesus to save him, just as he got to the saw, the split opened, he yanked back and lost the tip of his little finger. He became a preacher and had a little reminder of running away when God calls you.
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In 2 Thes. 2:13-14 it's not who will be saved, it's the manner in which we are saved.
We were chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world a certain way, that way is by the sanctifying of the Spirit through the belief of the truth.
Do you see it? It's being chosen for a certain way to salvation.
Jonah still had a choice to disobey God! Jonah was a believer, a stubborn one just as we are at times.
God knew what it would take to bring him around.
Four things that concur, work together to the Predestinated according to scripture Truth Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1 st God foreknew them
2 2nd He called them
3rd He justified them
4th He Glorified them
They shall be conformed to the Image of Christ, Gods Son! 15
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1 st God foreknew them
2 2nd He called them
3rd He justified them
4th He Glorified them
They shall be conformed to the Image of Christ, Gods Son! 15
Thats because they couldnt have the desire. Like a lion cant have a desire for an apple, its not his nature to desire fruit
You do understand Christ was speaking to the Pharisees? I know you do because we've been over this before.
If anyone in Israel had a heart for God it should have been the Pharisees, the religious leaders.
They perverted the Law to their expectations and their desires, they were telling Christ what they wanted Him to be.
Of course they couldn't hear or believe His words.
We who have believed the Gospel were chosen before the world was created to be conformed in the image of Christ.
God knew who would believe before He created them!
Man who would believe was chosen to God's plan of redemption, being conformed to the image of Christ by grace through faith.
There it is, but I don't know what you can do with it.
Lol maybe you don't understand, they are regular natural human beings. Whether pharisee or non-pharisee, all have same fallen nature by birth, which nature has no desire for God,
Heres our desires by nature, jew or gentiles, black or white, pharisee or non-pharisee Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
"Chose them to believe before He created them."
Those are not the words of the Scripture, they are the words of BF.
I pointed out the conversation in John 8 being with the Pharisees because Christ was showing them up for who they were.
They were imposters pretending to be men of God. They had no true heart for the things of God, they were genuine hypocrites.
Christ told them they could not hear His words for they were of their father the devil.
This was their reason for not hearing, there are many other reasons man cannot hear Him.
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