OSAS origins and comparison

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Dan Clarkston

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No, the Reformers did not charge God with evil. I don't think you know Reformed Theology.

That's funny. Of course those deceived by so called reformed theology would be blind to it's deceptions



7 Reasons Why Calvinism Is Not The Fatalism You've Been Told

Calvinism (as well as the rest of reformed theology) is a cult and is not of God in any way shape or form.

They are the tares Jesus warned about.
 

RLT63

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Up front, I confess that I am more Reformation-oriented in my soteriology than Arminian, though I am to a measure a Free Will advocate. That being said I am much more tolerant of free discourse between genuine Christian movements on this issue than many. It is an oddity of history that Predestination was largely viewed as the more orthodox view for many years, and Arminianism viewed with suspicion and at times as even a heresy.

But in places like the US, where Methodism has become prominent, the roles have reversed. Predestination, when coupled with Calvinism, is considered by some Methodists as heresy, while Arminianism is viewed as the prominent orthodox position. That being said, the truth needs to be told.

I'm a member of AoG and currently attend a Methodist church. Since I'm disallowed from discussing this elsewhere on this Forum, and people on the Forum continue to argue on this topic, I will confine my response here. And I will severely cut back my contributions on this Forum, since it is heavily censored on this matter, allowing for only one point of view. However, I've been told I am able to express ideas on this subject here, on the Unorthodox portion of the Forum, free of censorship.

OSAS is the Calvinist position expressed by some in more modern times. But the concept originates with early Predestination beliefs held by Augustine and the Reformers, though not necessarily expressed literally as "Once Saved Always Saved." Calvin went farther than some with his Double Predestination, as it was later called. TULIP came to present the 5 points of Calvinism, which included the Perseverance of the Saints, or one form of "Once Saved Always Saved."

Lutheranism and Calvinism were concerned to avoid the error of Pelagianism, the idea that we have within our nature the ability to independently produce righteousness and obtain Eternal Life. According to the Reformers we are predestined to Election by God, but once so Elected are free to make choices to exercise Faith and to Choose Salvation.

Methodism held to the idea that people have Prevenient Grace and are able to produce Faith by our own works with the caveat that Christ's redemption is essential to the formula. Some explain this as operating together with Christ synergistically.

A lot had to do with understanding the nature of Salvation itself in terms of Justification and Sanctification. Luther felt that a complete Conversion indicating one has true Faith and belongs to the Elect is at the heart of Salvation.

Arminius felt that conversion becomes real with Faith, and tends towards Perseverance, but nevertheless can be lost. Wesley believed the Arminian formula, but presented Instant Sanctification as a step beyond Nominal Christianity to indicate a more authentic Christian Conversion, or Rebirth.

Pentecostals saw Spirit Baptism as an important follow-up to Salvation, though like Methodist Sanctification seemed to confirm a real Conversion beyond Nominal Christianity. In reality, though, Nominal Christianity may represent a false Christianity, existing without a complete or true commitment to Christianity--less than a full Conversion.

So, all of these theological systems called for a step beyond the Nominal Church to provide real evidence of a true Conversion, or Rebirth. They are just called by different names, authenticating true Conversion, whether it is described as the experience of Faith for Election, Instant Sanctification, or Spirit Baptism.

And whether one can lose his Salvation or not may depend on whether the one exercising Christian gifts is representative of a true Christian Conversion or not. Jesus said that men would say, "Lord, Lord," when they are displaying gifts but not fully committed to Christ.

It is debatable, I suppose, whether someone who has the gifts of Christianity is really Christian when he turns away from Christianity permanently? That's the thing with OSAS--it doesn't seem to make much difference either way. If a Christian acts like a Christian and is not, or acts like a Christian and is, and turns completely away, the result is the same--the person who had acted Christian completely turns away. Paul and Peter both called for Christians, with gifts, to prove whether they are the Elect.

The big deal with Reformation Theology and Predestination is whether it is Fatalistic or has Free Will, in some measure? Regardless, all agree that whether Prevenient Grace or Faith by Election, nobody works righteousness acceptable to God for Salvation unless it is done with Christ's Atonement providing for it legally and spiritually. Even Predestinarians who are somewhat Fatalistic do allow for some measure of Free Will--just not Pelagianism.

Maturing in the Christian life has nothing to do with obtaining Salvation, which is what some call "Progressive Sanctification." We are actually Sanctified by the Work of Christ at Salvation, though the process of maturation continues progressively over time.
I believe in free will but lean toward OSAS
 

RLT63

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There's far more demonic deception in reformed theology.

Especially the part where they claim God actually causes child molesters to rape and molest little children as they actually blame God for all the sin and darkness in the world claiming he doesn't just allow it... they claim He is the cause of it.

These people are so deceived the devil has them confused thinking God and the devil are the same guy! View attachment 88451
I don't see how anyone could believe that
 

Dan Clarkston

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I don't see how anyone could believe that

Then this passage is speaking to you then:

2 Corinthians 4:3,4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Reformed theology is a perversion of the true Gospel as found in scripture.

This perversion was brought to the adherents of reformed theology courtesy of satan's demons who mix deception in with truth. A little leaven spoils the whole lump (Galatians 5:9)

It's just like in the garden of eden where satan did not tell them everything God said was false, he just told them parts of what God said was false which was enough to get them to sin and be separated from the Lord (spiritual death).

Reformed "churches" (and those influenced by reformed teaching) are not New Testament churches but are social clubs instead which is another way they keep people hooked is that most people want to be accepted by others and end up believing what others tell them before believing what God teaches in His Word.

It's a sad state of affairs for those following a different "jesus" and another "gospel"
 

RLT63

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Then this passage is speaking to you then:

2 Corinthians 4:3,4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Reformed theology is a perversion of the true Gospel as found in scripture.

This perversion was brought to the adherents of reformed theology courtesy of satan's demons who mix deception in with truth. A little leaven spoils the whole lump (Galatians 5:9)

It's just like in the garden of eden where satan did not tell them everything God said was false, he just told them parts of what God said was false which was enough to get them to sin and be separated from the Lord (spiritual death).

Reformed "churches" (and those influenced by reformed teaching) are not New Testament churches but are social clubs instead which is another way they keep people hooked is that most people want to be accepted by others and end up believing what others tell them before believing what God teaches in His Word.

It's a sad state of affairs for those following a different "jesus" and another "gospel"
I don't understand how someone could believe that God causes child molesters to rape children
 

Dan Clarkston

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I don't understand how someone could believe that God causes child molesters to rape children

Well they do claim God causes all that happens to happen.

That's what calvinists and moslems have in common - they believe if it happens, it was God that caused it to happen.

They got that from their daddy the devil who deceived them in to believing God did not create man in His Own Image resulting in man not having free will in spite of what God says in His Word

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?