Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[GodsGrace]

This is purely anecdotal, and I'm not about to enter into debate on this issue. But for what its worth, I came to repentance and faith 35 years ago, and for most of my Christian life I went back and forth and back again over the trinity. It wasn't that I didn't believe it, I just couldn't wrap my mind around it.

In the last three years I have become completely convinced that the Trinity is the way in which God has chosen to express His divine personage. And guess what, while I am now completely convinced in this spiritual reality, I am no more able to wrap my mind around it than I ever was.

So no, for me at least, its not a salvation issue.

Hi Archie....
And it is NOT a salvation issue.
This thread is not about soteriology.
It's about the DEFINITION of Christianity.

A person could be saved and not believe in the Trinity.
A person could be saved and not understand the Trinity.
A person could be saved AND understand the Trinity.

What this thread is about is that a person that does NOT believe in the doctrine of the Trinity...
thus they do NOT believe that Jesus is God
cannot therefor, DEFINE themselves as Christian.

Thanks for posting.
Very good testimony.

I'd like to tell you what helped me to understand the Trinity.
It was John 1:1
Jesus is called the Word of God/the Logos of God.

However we want to explain the word/logos is not too important.
What IS important is that this WORD was with God and was God.

This Word, whatever it was, became flesh and dwelt among us --- this Word is Jesus.

So Jesus was always with God and was always God (just not in the "form" of Jesus).

The Italian word for BEGOTTEN is GENERATO, which makes it more easily understood.
Generato means something came out of something else...but this something was there.
Generated.
I really dislike the English word BEGOTTEN...it makes it sound as if The Son was created at some point and this is not Christian theology. The Son always existed because He was with God and was God.

 

[Wrangler]

There's no religion called WAY OF LIFE.

two religions are called the way.

1. Taoism
2. And ours What is “the Way” in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

 

[GodsGrace]

two religions are called the way.

1. Taoism
2. And ours What is “the Way” in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

No time now...will be back later.

THE WAY
became
CHRISTIANITY.

Christianity is the name of our religion.
NOT The Way.

IF you belong to some religion called THE WAY, then that's what should be written under your avatar.

 

[Wrangler]

No time now...will be back later.

THE WAY
became
CHRISTIANITY.

Christianity is the name of our religion.
NOT The Way.

IF you belong to some religion called THE WAY, then that's what should be written under your avatar.

Originally, our religion was known as the way. Same with Taoism.

If you want to reject history, remain in a state of ignoring historical facts, that's on you. If you want to claim that no religion today is primarily known as the way, that's fine but I'm not sure where you're coming from. What's your point? That you claim a monopoly on the proper use of words?

 

[Archie]

What this thread is about is that a person that does NOT believe in the doctrine of the Trinity...
thus they do NOT believe that Jesus is God
cannot therefor, DEFINE themselves as Christian.

I patiently waded through the doublespeak, but you lost me at "thus".

I'm really not in the business of defining who is or is not a Christian.
Its a personal thing, and by that I do not mean its between them and God, though that is most certainly the case. But rather, when I meet a brother or sister in Christ, the Spirit of Christ within them connects with the Spirit of Christ within me, and that's that, no further inquiry required, at that point its all about our fellowship in Christ, encouragement, exhortation, edification and exultation.

Thank you for clarifying what this thread is all about.

I'll be showing myself to the door now.

 

[GodsGrace]

I patiently waded through the doublespeak, but you lost me at "thus".

I'm really not in the business of defining who is or is not a Christian.
Its a personal thing, and by that I do not mean its between them and God, though that is most certainly the case. But rather, when I meet a brother or sister in Christ, the Spirit of Christ within them connects with the Spirit of Christ within me, and that's that, no further inquiry required, at that point its all about our fellowship in Christ, encouragement, exhortation, edification and exultation.

Thank you for clarifying what this thread is all about.

I'll be showing myself to the door now.

You can show yourself to the door but I'd like to clarify.

A person could have the spirit of Christ but not be Christian.
You see, this is the problem here.
You don't even acknowledge that there are perameters to what being Christian MEANS.

IF you wanted to say you're Italian, for instance...
You'd have to be born in Italy or raised in Italy,
you've have to be of the Italian culture,
and you'd have to speak Italian.

If you're born in Spain and know the Spanish culture and speak Spanish...
you cannot define yourself as Italian.

It means something to be defined as Christian.
I'll list some of the requirements again:

1. There is only one God.
2. Jesus is God.
3. The Trinity (this is the THUS....if Jesus is God, we thus have the Trinity - or we'd have 2 Gods).
4. Jesus is the atonement for our sins.
5. Jesus died and was resurrected.
6. He will come again and will judge the living and the dead.
7. We are saved by faith.
8. We believe in the bible (not any other book).


The above is what is taught in Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

I patiently waded through the doublespeak, but you lost me at "thus".

I reread my post to you.
No doublespeak there.

It's very clear.
Doublespeak is when a person says one thing but means another. (usually the opposite).

I don't do this.
I strive to be very clear in my statements.

I'm really not in the business of defining who is or is not a Christian.

Well, you should be if you're religion means anything to you.

Its a personal thing, and by that I do not mean its between them and God, though that is most certainly the case. But rather, when I meet a brother or sister in Christ, the Spirit of Christ within them connects with the Spirit of Christ within me, and that's that, no further inquiry required, at that point its all about our fellowship in Christ, encouragement, exhortation, edification and exultation.

Except that if they don't believe Jesus is God,,they are not of the Christian faith.

Thank you for clarifying what this thread is all about.

I'll be showing myself to the door now.

You can leave now!

 

[GodsGrace]

Originally, our religion was known as the way. Same with Taoism.

If you want to reject history, remain in a state of ignoring historical facts, that's on you. If you want to claim that no religion today is primarily known as the way, that's fine but I'm not sure where you're coming from. What's your point? That you claim a monopoly on the proper use of words?

Far from ignoring historical facts Wrangler,,,
I am actually DECLARING what the history of Christianity was.

My claim is that this religion I practice is called Christian...thus Christianity.
I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim and I'm not Taoist or any other RELIGION.

I did not just invent Christianity.
It goes back 2 thousand years and its tenets are already in place.

NO ONE can change them.
There is ONE meaning to the Christian faith.
If a person adheres to the definition, he can be considered Christian.
If a person does NOT adhere to the tenets of Christianity....then he is not Christian.

Simple.

It is no longer called THE WAY.
It's called Christianity,,,and was first called this by Ignatius of Antioch.

Here's some helpful info:

Followers of Jesus were first called "Christians" in Antioch (modern Turkey) around the 30s or 40s AD, a term likely coined by locals, meaning "followers of Christ," but early believers like Ignatius of Antioch adopted it as a badge of honor by 100 AD, with the term "Christianity" (Χριστιανισμός) appearing in writing by Ignatius of Antioch around that time.

So yes, our faith is known as CHRISTIAN
NOT The Way.


From my post no. 687

It means something to be defined as Christian.
I'll list some of the requirements again:

1. There is only one God.
2. Jesus is God.
3. The Trinity (this is the THUS....if Jesus is God, we thus have the Trinity - or we'd have 2 Gods).
4. Jesus is the atonement for our sins.
5. Jesus died and was resurrected.
6. He will come again and will judge the living and the dead.
7. We are saved by faith.
8. We believe in the bible (not any other book).

 

[GodsGrace]

Because it's not a religion, it's a way of life.

9 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem." - Acts 9:1,2

Berean...
Again...there's no religion called THE WAY.

You might have missed that THE WAY was changed to CHRISTIAN...

This is from Gemini -- but studying history would be far superior...

• c. 30 AD: Jesus's crucifixion and the subsequent formation of his followers into a Jewish messianic sect in Jerusalem.
• c. 30-40 AD: The first Pentecost, the growth of the Jerusalem community, the conversion of Saul (Paul), and the beginning of missionary work.
• c. 40 AD: The term "Christian" (meaning "follower of Christ") likely originated in Antioch, Syria, as Gentiles began joining the movement.

 

[Archie]

You can show yourself to the door but I'd like to clarify.

A person could have the spirit of Christ but not be Christian.
You see, this is the problem here.
You don't even acknowledge that there are perameters to what being Christian MEANS.

IF you wanted to say you're Italian, for instance...
You'd have to be born in Italy or raised in Italy,
you've have to be of the Italian culture,
and you'd have to speak Italian.

If you're born in Spain and know the Spanish culture and speak Spanish...
you cannot define yourself as Italian.

It means something to be defined as Christian.
I'll list some of the requirements again:

1. There is only one God.
2. Jesus is God.
3. The Trinity (this is the THUS....if Jesus is God, we thus have the Trinity - or we'd have 2 Gods).
4. Jesus is the atonement for our sins.
5. Jesus died and was resurrected.
6. He will come again and will judge the living and the dead.
7. We are saved by faith.
8. We believe in the bible (not any other book).


The above is what is taught in Christianity.

You seem very sure of yourself.

While several of your 8 points above may be true. Some of the connections that you make between them are quite erroneous.

A Christian can believe that Christ is God and that the Father is God without having two Gods. For Christ Himself declared that He and the Father are one.

A Christian may also believe that Christ and the Father are One, and yet still be a Christian without being a trinitarian. Since the Holy Spirit is referred to in multiple passages as the Spirit of God as well as the Spirit of Christ. Which is the common sticking point for most who have yet come to embrace the Trinity. And guess what, if they're even wrestling with such issues, they more than likely already have that Same Spirit within them, which makes them, wait for it.... Christians.

Im not sure where you get your ideas, Or what you think gives you the right to cast about blanket statements declaring who is or is not a child of God, but you should repent of your foolishness.

Lastly, you claim to believe in the Bible. Which parts exactly? Paul said that a woman should not teach or have authority over a man. And yet here you are, presuming yourself to be a teacher of Gods Holy word, and making authoritative statements concerning the entire body of Christ. When the simple fact is, you have no such gifts and zero authority.

But by all means, carry on in your folly, but remember, you will give an account for yourself one day. And God will be looking at your heart, not your doctrine, which if your doctrine is any indication of the contents of your heart, you may be in for a very rude awakening.

Farewell. May God deal with you with far greater mercy and wisdom than you have exhibited towards His children.

 

[GodsGrace]

You seem very sure of yourself.

While several of your 8 points above may be true. Some of the connections that you make between them are quite erroneous.

A Christian can believe that Christ is God and that the Father is God without having two Gods. For Christ Himself declared that He and the Father are one.

A Christian may also believe that Christ and the Father are One, and yet still be a Christian without being a trinitarian. Since the Holy Spirit is referred to in multiple passages as the Spirit of God as well as the Spirit of Christ. Which is the common sticking point for most who have yet come to embrace the Trinity. And guess what, if they're even wrestling with such issues, they more than likely already have that Same Spirit within them, which makes them, wait for it.... Christians.

Im not sure where you get your ideas, Or what you think gives you the right to cast about blanket statements declaring who is or is not a child of God, but you should repent of your foolishness.

Lastly, you claim to believe in the Bible. Which parts exactly? Paul said that a woman should not teach or have authority over a man. And yet here you are, presuming yourself to be a teacher of Gods Holy word, and making authoritative statements concerning the entire body of Christ. When the simple fact is, you have no such gifts and zero authority.

But by all means, carry on in your folly, but remember, you will give an account for yourself one day. And God will be looking at your heart, not your doctrine, which if your doctrine is any indication of the contents of your heart, you may be in for a very rude awakening.

Farewell. May God deal with you with far greater mercy and wisdom than you have exhibited towards His children.

Either I don't speak English
or
YOU don't understand it.

And with that I wish you the best.

 

[GodsGrace]

You seem very sure of yourself.

While several of your 8 points above may be true. Some of the connections that you make between them are quite erroneous.

A Christian can believe that Christ is God and that the Father is God without having two Gods. For Christ Himself declared that He and the Father are one.

A Christian may also believe that Christ and the Father are One, and yet still be a Christian without being a trinitarian. Since the Holy Spirit is referred to in multiple passages as the Spirit of God as well as the Spirit of Christ. Which is the common sticking point for most who have yet come to embrace the Trinity. And guess what, if they're even wrestling with such issues, they more than likely already have that Same Spirit within them, which makes them, wait for it.... Christians.

Im not sure where you get your ideas, Or what you think gives you the right to cast about blanket statements declaring who is or is not a child of God, but you should repent of your foolishness.

Lastly, you claim to believe in the Bible. Which parts exactly? Paul said that a woman should not teach or have authority over a man.

LOL
Had to come back Archie.
We do tend to pluck out verses we like, don't we?
Paul was instructing Timothy on how to set up the church... 1 Timothy 2:12, your verse.
it's good to hear that you like heirarchy and that you like to adhere to church rules.
For a minute, there, it seemed as though you didn't.

And as to your post,,,
I would counter with this:

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither * Jew nor Greek, there is neither * slave nor free man, there is neither * male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


So, in a church a woman should not teach a man...
but on these Forums....we are all the same and are able to interact with one another.

And yet here you are, presuming yourself to be a teacher of Gods Holy word, and making authoritative statements concerning the entire body of Christ. When the simple fact is, you have no such gifts and zero authority.

But by all means, carry on in your folly, but remember, you will give an account for yourself one day. And God will be looking at your heart, not your doctrine, which if your doctrine is any indication of the contents of your heart, you may be in for a very rude awakening.

Farewell. May God deal with you with far greater mercy and wisdom than you have exhibited towards His children.

Ditto.

 

[Archie]

LOL
Had to come back Archie.
We do tend to pluck out verses we like, don't we?
Paul was instructing Timothy on how to set up the church... 1 Timothy 2:12, your verse.
it's good to hear that you like heirarchy and that you like to adhere to church rules.
For a minute, there, it seemed as though you didn't.

And as to your post,,,
I would counter with this:

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither * Jew nor Greek, there is neither * slave nor free man, there is neither * male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


So, in a church a woman should not teach a man...
but on these Forums....we are all the same and are able to interact with one another.




Ditto.

We are not all the same, but you still have the opportunity to repent, take advantage of that opportunity, the hour is late.

 

[Berean]

Berean...
Again...there's no religion called THE WAY.

Actually there is. And no, I'm NOT a member.

The Way​

 

[HealthyShape]

how a thing can be WITH something and BE that same thing?

God is spirit and physical object contradictions do not apply. Sometimes, the word God refers to the Father, sometimes it refers to the Son. There are three persons in one God.

Jesus is foretold to be a man, like Moses, a fellow Israelite, who will speak the words God put in his mouth

Read the letter to Hebrews, a very useful scripture for people like you, who think that Jesus was just a man "like Moses".

On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. [do you know what this means in Hebrew thinking?]

And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all God’s angels worship Him.”

...about the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,
and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness
and hated wickedness;
therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

And:

In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Heb 1

Yeah, really not just a man like Moses, but God and the creator of the Universe.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are not all the same, but you still have the opportunity to repent, take advantage of that opportunity, the hour is late.

Thanks for your concern.

But I guess this means that you believe we're saved by our doctrinal beliefs.

I believe we're saved by believing Jesus and obeying His commands.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually there is. And no, I'm a member.

The Way​

If there's a religion called THE WAY
and YOU are part of that religion...
then, again,
it should say THE WAY under your avatar
NOT
Christian.

Because, apparently, The Way does not teach what Christianity teaches.

 

[Wrangler]

God is spirit and physical object contradictions do not apply.

Quite the assertion.

 

[Wrangler]

Read the letter to Hebrews, a very useful scripture for people like you, who think that Jesus was just a man "like Moses".

Not me, it's what Scripture says. Didn't you read the Deuteronomy verse?

 

[GodsGrace]

Not me, it's what Scripture says. Didn't you read the Deuteronomy verse?

News flash Wrangler:
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Christianity is a monotheistic religion.