WAYS THAT AMILS GET ZECHARIAH 14 WRONG
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Hmmm? When the Old Covenant prophets, and the New Covenant apostles speak of the coming of Christ, weren't they speaking of His first coming in flesh, and His coming again in flesh in the same manner in which He was seen departing? In a sense I would agree that Christ does come, when He enters into believers through the Holy Spirit, but we only read of Him physically coming, first advent, and His second coming again after the seventh trumpet sounds.
Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
In reading this passage from John, it does seem like Christ is telling us that He will return to always be with and in believers through His Spirit. It's very comforting to know that Christ is with us always through His Spirit in us, however, I don't view Christ sending His Spirit as the second coming of Christ physically as He has promised He shall.
John 14:16-20 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
For now we see Christ spiritually through His Holy Spirit in us, but when He comes again we shall physically see and know Him, and we shall be like Him.
1 John 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1 Corinthians 13:10 (KJV) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Most of the visible churches have gone awry because they have neglected to corporarately aknowledge in depth the coming of Christ via the Holy Spirit. It is clearly shown in KJV Dan. 9 in the latter part of vs. 27 and in Zech. 14:8, 17, 18.
Unfortunately, Pentecost takes the back seat to Christmas, Easter, and yes even Halloween! How sad is that!!
To each of us who are born again by His Spirit, Pentecost [aka. the Feast of Tabernacles] is the most important "coming" of the Lord that any of us will ever have, for without it, Christmas and Easter will have no personal meaning at all.
As for the return of Jesus in flaming fire in all His Immortal Glory, even that will MEAN NOTHING to all who ARE NOT born again of His Holy Spirit.
Please understand the depth of KJV 2 Cor. 4[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Edit: oh, and let's not forget KJV Rev. 3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
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rwb is assuming too much about what Premill believes, wrongly thinking of Dispensationalists and Pre-tribbers. The Premill idea is what is actually written in God's Word, and is simply that Jesus' future coming will be only ONE more time on the LAST DAY of this present world, and begin His "thousand years" reign with His elect over all nations, that reign being ON EARTH. Dispensationalists and Pre-tribbers don't believe this view. Yet The Bible does point out that Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord" (last day of this world) is when His Millennial reign will begin, and it is about a Post-trib coming, that "day of the Lord" is.
I've noticed that man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory keeps trying to move the "day of the Lord" back in time, to the start... of the "great tribulation". Not so per Bible Scripture. The "day of the Lord" represents the day of Christ's future 2nd coming back to this earth on the last day of THIS world when the resurrection will happen. The Zechariah 14 Chapter is a huge Testimony to this.
And that some... also try and move the "day of the Lord" as having fulfillment back in Old Testament times, is also a ploy to deceive away from the fact that the Old Testament prophets were actually giving future prophecy about the 'end' of this world, which is still future to us even.
Further, the "day of the Lord" also represents the whole "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign over the unsaved nations with His elect. It's just that Jesus returns on the START of that period called the "day of the Lord." So I don't know how someone could be confused about that with all the events described in God's Word that are to happen on that 1st day of The Lord when Jesus returns.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Who told Pre-mil believers to accept and follow after a concept that teaches: one literal 24 hour day is equal to a literal 1000 years, and a literal 1000 years is equal to one literal 24 hr. day?
In 2 Peter ch. 3, we are to understand that God in His eternity is speaking about His long time of suffering over us and our ignorance about His Gift of salvation, through having faith in the sacrifice of His Son, the Lamb of God.
2 Peter 3:1-18
[15] And account [reckon, consider] that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3 has nothing to do with equating one literal 24 hour day as being a literal 1000 years long, which is to then foolishly think that the literal 7 day creation week period is equivalent to 7000 literal years of time. Nothing of the sort is described or implied for interpreting prophetic time or prophetic scripture.
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What an argument. Maybe one would also foolishly think Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 thousand years rather than 3 literal days, for example. As if creation days have to also equal 1k years each if one takes 2 Peter 3:8 in the literal sense.
Creation days involved 24 hour days. They are simply a pattern for how much time God gives man on earth before 1 Corithians 15:28 is fullfilled. Obviously, it can't be 7 literal days that God gives man on earth before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. But 7k years can certaintly fit and appears to be reasonable. 7 1k year days that follow the pattern of the 7 days in the beginning.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Show me where this is taught in scripture. If you can't do that, then you should stop making claims that you can't back up with scripture.
Can fit what? Where is this 7K years theory you try to promote taught in scripture?
Again. Where is this taught in scripture? No one here is interested in things that you make up in your imagination.
You guys keep trying to ask that above 'loaded question' in vain attempt to change Peter's meaning of that 2 Peter 3:8-9 Scripture.
2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV
In the previous 7th verse Peter just spoke of how today's present world is preserved unto destruction by fire against the day of judgment and perishing of ungodly men. BUT... Peter says, and that's a conjunction joining the subject of the 7th verse with the next 8th and 9th verses, Peter shows that to God a 'day' is like a thousand years to us. AND... that God is long suffering according to His promise, not willing that any should perish (back to the subject of verse 7), but that all should repent.
Thus what Peter said there is very simple, and POINTS DIRECTLY to Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 as a LITERAL PERIOD that is to happen prior... to God's Final Judgment and those who will perish in the future lake of fire.
There is 3 judgements i believe. The BEMA of christ, The demons and angels judgement and then the unbelievers judgement.
Let's see, there's the judgment by Christ between His sheep and the goats at His coming.
There's the judgment of the northern army that comes out of the northern quarters on the day of Christ's coming, with a remnant of that army leftover that will be required to come up to Jerusalem from year to year (Christ's "thousand years" reign) and worship The KING, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Then there's the standing in judgment of those who erred, per Ezekiel 44, which is about the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect over the unsaved nations and even over those in the Church that will be deceived during the coming tribulation. Those will stand in judgment during that whole "thousand years" period of Christ's reign.
Then there's the judgment of the beast and the false prophet cast into the lake of fire on the day of Christ's return.
Then there's the judgment upon Satan and his Gog-Magog host of nations that still reject Christ when Satan is loosed right after the end of the "thousand years" to go tempt the nations. Satan and those unsaved are burned up by God's fire.
Then there's God's Great White Throne Judgment, the Final Judgment, that happens after the "thousand years" reign by Christ. At this judgment those who converted to Christ 'during'... the "thousand years" will make up the inferred 2nd resurrection and joined with the 1st resurrection saints. The wicked who still reject Christ, along with the abode of hell (hades), and death, are then all cast into the "lake of fire", which is the "second death".
Then God's new heavens and new earth time begins.
So I don't know, how many judgments is that? It's better to keep focus on the timeline written in God's Word about the matter, instead of men who like to play games with Bible Scripture.
