How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Jack]

If people make insulting comments about each other's beliefs, is that showing Christian love for neighbor?

Lots of 'Christians' consider the Bible as insults.

AI Overview
No, making insulting comments about others' beliefs is generally seen as contrary to Christian love for one's neighbor, which emphasizes kindness, respect, building up others, and loving enemies, even while disagreements exist; Romans 13:10 states love does no harm, and 1 Corinthians 13:2 says faith without love is nothing, with Christians called to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly, not to attack. Instead, Christians are encouraged to pray for those who mistreat them, respond with grace, and focus on Jesus' call to love enemies and turn the other cheek.

So Jesus was VERY insulting when He warned us that BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell FOREVER?

 

[walter]

Do you warn them of the everlasting Hell Fire, as Jesus did? That's Biblical LOVE!

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

You are correct.. Shouldn't we try to make our words be as kind as possible to fit each situation? I know that is my objective but I fail many times. It's hard for me to keep a conversation positive.

 

[rvmb]

Revelation 3:14, "the beginning of the creation by God."
Colossians 1:15,16 "the firstborn of all creation."

Benjamin Wilson who was a trinitarian. In his 'Emphatic Diaglott', in the Interlinear part, it reads: "and a god was the Word."

In J. Moffatt's translation, John 1:1c reads:"the Logos was divine."

Another trinitarian, highly acclaimed Bible scholar John L. McKenzie, claimed John 1:1 didn't support the doctrine. In his
'Dictionary of the Bible', on p. 317, he wrote: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [ = the Father], and the word was a divine being.'" -- (Brackets are his. Bold type is mine.) (1965, NY)

Hope this helps!

"Benjamin Wilson""
When did he write the Bible ?
Hope this helps!
Where are the verses that teach, like satan & the angels, The Word was a created being ?
Just the verses please :)

 

[TazzJazz]

"Benjamin Wilson""
When did he write the Bible ?

Emphatic Diaglott - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Where are the verses that teach, like satan & the angels, The Word was a created being ?
Just the verses please :)

Do you agree that Jesus is the Word? I gave them to you: Colossians 1:15, & Revelation 3:14.

Have a great day.

 

[The Learner]

How can you include all these scriptures in your understanding?
Is it possible to take every word literally? In your opinion how do we know which words are literal and which words are figurative?

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. New King James Version

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Berean Standard Bible

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
New King James Version

Mark 9:47
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’ New Living Translation

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. NIV

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean Literal Bible

Even my Second Graders knows that Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. is Literal.

 

[Jack]

Even my Second Graders knows that Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. is Literal.

But Satan's messengers don't like the literal Bible!

 

[The Learner]

That's debatable.

Matthew 1:23 NIV
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son,
and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”).

Isaiah 9:6 NIV
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The following verses have the words "ho Theos" in their Greek translations. There are a lot more. Mark 1:1 Matthew 3:9 Mark 13:19 Luke 2:19 Acts 2:11 John 8:42,47 Luke 1:26 Acts 26:6 John 8:40 John 9:16 Colossians 3:3 John 1:2 Acts 15:19.

Who is/are the referent(s) of the Greek words "ho Theos" at Mark 13:19 and what does it mean there. Is it the same every else too?

The following verses have the words "ho Theos" in their Greek translations. There are a lot more. Mark 1:1 Matthew 3:9 Mark 13:19 Luke 2:19 Acts 2:11 John 8:42,47 Luke 1:26 Acts 26...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

On the Use of Theos and Theon in John 1:1 and Elsewhere in the Greek New Testament too much to post

 

[The Learner]

Care to share your point to these?

shows early church believed in the trintiy

 

[Jack]

From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"

 

[The Learner]

"And every single translation that renders John 1:1 that way is a product of trinitarian bias."""
I believe and accept that in some way or form The Father, The Son, The HS pre-existed creation
If you don't then simply list the verses that teach otherwise :)

Only proves that the orthodox Christians beleved in the Trinity.

 

[The Learner]

If you look up “theos” in an Interlinear and see what it’s primary definition is….’Any god or goddess or divine personage’.
A divine person, or one who is authorized by God can be called a “god” (Little “g”) Angels are called “theos”….divine beings.
Even satan is called a ”god” (theos) at 2 Cor 4:4.

As God’s divine son, Jesus can also legitimately be called a “god” (little “g”)

Nope, too much evidence in favor of him being God.

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity by Robert Bowman, Jr.

Robert Bowman, Jr. :: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity

www.blueletterbible.org

Early Trinitarian Quotes - CARM

Part of the reason that the Trinity doctrine was not "officially" taught until the time of the Council of Nicea is that Christianity was illegal

carm.org

Trinity Quotes from Christian History

Powerful or fascinating Trinity quotes from throughout Christian history.

www.christian-history.org

 

[The Learner]

Revelation 3:14, "the beginning of the creation by God."
Colossians 1:15,16 "the firstborn of all creation."

Benjamin Wilson who was a trinitarian. In his 'Emphatic Diaglott', in the Interlinear part, it reads: "and a god was the Word."

In J. Moffatt's translation, John 1:1c reads:"the Logos was divine."

Another trinitarian, highly acclaimed Bible scholar John L. McKenzie, claimed John 1:1 didn't support the doctrine. In his
'Dictionary of the Bible', on p. 317, he wrote: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [ = the Father], and the word was a divine being.'" -- (Brackets are his. Bold type is mine.) (1965, NY)

Hope this helps!

Benjamin Wilson was a Christadelphian who is an Arian.

John is misquoted on purpose:

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'" "Dictionary of the Bible", by John L. McKenzie, 1965, p. 317, as quoted in, Should you believe the Trinity?, Watchtower publication)


What they left out to deceive you:

In the words of Jesus and in much of the rest of the NT the God of Israel (Gk. ho theos) is the Father* of Jesus Christ. It is for this reason that the title ho theos, which now designates the Father as a personal reality, is not applied in the NT to Jesus Himself; Jesus is the Son of God (of ho theos). This is a matter of usage and not of rule, and the noun [Gk. ho theos] is applied to Jesus a few times. "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated "the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being." Thomas invokes Jesus with the titles which belong to the *Father, "My Lord and my God" (Jn 20:28). "The glory of our great God and Savior" which is to appear can be the glory of no other than Jesus (Tt 2:13)" (Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, God, p317)

McKenzie, John L.: Dictionary of the Bible

 

[Grailhunter]

shows early church believed in the trintiy

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

Over a hundred scriptures prove the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity false. Trinity does not mean triune it is tri-unity between 3 Gods. Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit. 3 Gods on 3 thrones in Heaven and the Yeshua seating to the right of the Yahweh.
The scriptures shows a hierarchy, Father and Son. God the Father Supreme Almighty. Yeshua said, The Father is greater than I. And the Apostles would refer to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord. For example like….for the love of God and our Lord Jesus.

 

[walter]

Even my Second Graders knows that Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. is Literal.

Should we Strictly Only Believe the words at: Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Ignoring other words in the Bible?

Some "will not get life", "be destroyed", "be cut off" "vanish and disappear"? John 3:36 and Matthew 7:13-14 and Psalm 37:20, Psalm 37:34, and Psalm 68:2

AI Overview
No, the Bible presents a complex view on final judgment, with Revelation 20:10 about eternal torment for Satan and false prophets, while other passages (like John 3:36, Matthew 10:28, Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23, and Revelation 20:14-15) speak of destruction, "second death," or annihilation for the wicked, leading to different Christian interpretations (traditional eternal torment vs. annihilationism), requiring careful study of all verses for a complete understanding, not selective belief.

Click this google link if you want a more extensive explanation.

Google Search

 

[Jack]

Should we Strictly Only Believe the words at: Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Those who don't want to burn in Hell will!

 

[walter]

Those who don't want to burn in Hell will!

Thank you for your kind words. Jesus says many will be destroyed and some will not see life, if you choose to only believe a few scriptures instead of all the scriptures you can find on the subject, that is your prerogative, and I respect that you believe what you believe.

I gather you like arguments!! I myself would rather find something we can agree on.

 

[walter]

Even my Second Graders knows that Rev 20:10 " they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. is Literal.

Yes Jesus talks about eternal fire and eternal punishment, but he also says if your eye causes you to stumble gouge it out and he says if your hand causes you to stumble cut it off, sometime Jesus uses his words to emphasize the importance.

Yes, Jesus used simple, clear words like: many will be on the road to destruction Matthew 7:13, and some "will not see life" John 3:36

• Mark 4:12 (NIV): "The secrets of the kingdom of God have been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, ever hearing but never understanding; they may never turn to God and be forgiven'".

I think in summary: the punishment is eternal, but these ones are not getting life in the first place so can they feel pain if they are destroyed not alive?

Shouldn't we listen to all Jesus words, and recognize that sometimes he talks in figurative language to emphasize the importance?

 

[walter]

Does the Bible give an indication of a place or a situation where it's appropriate to argue/fight/insult...?

"Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person." Colossians 4:6

"But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect." 1 Peter 3:15

 

[rvmb]

Only proves that the orthodox Christians beleved in the Trinity.

Can you list ANY verse/s that teach like Satan & the angels The Word was CREATED ?

 

[Jack]

Thank you for your kind words. Jesus says many will be destroyed

No He didn't. He said BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell FOREVER!

and some will not see life, if you choose to only believe a few scriptures instead of all the scriptures you can find on the subject, that is your prerogative, and I respect that you believe what you believe.

I gather you like arguments!! I myself would rather find something we can agree on.