A Little Season

[WPM]

Oh I AGREE with the Timing of Matthew chapter 24

Simple as A,B,C

A - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

B - So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

C - Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days..............I Come to gather MY Elect"

Really?

• The Jewish temple and its abomination of desolation is long gone. Study AD70.
• The second coming is not "the end" in your theology. Time, sin, death, rebellion, corruption, the wicked and Satan continue on in your supposed future millennium.

 

[David in NJ]

Really? The second coming is not "the end" in your theology. Time, sin, death, rebellion, corruption, the wicked and Satan continue on.

i am going to your previous response

 

[TribulationSigns]

Oh I AGREE with the Timing of Matthew chapter 24

No, you do NOT.

Simple as A,B,C

Simple? LOL...

A - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Your mistake is that you’re pulling the passage out of its context.

Matthew 24:14-15

• "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
• When ye therefore shall SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"

Do you actually follow what the Lord is saying here? The preaching of the Gospel during the church age continues until all the Elect are gathered in—then the end comes. And what is “the end”? It’s the little season before the Second Coming, when we are told we will see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place.

Do you even understand what the abomination of desolation is? Or what “the Holy Place” is on this side of the Cross, where this abomination is said to stand?


Then the very next verse says:

Mat 24:16

• Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So tell me—what “Holy Place” of Judaea are believers supposed to flee from? What other Holy Place do you think exists now, one that God’s people could actually flee out of when the abomination stands in it? And where exactly are these “mountains” that believers are to flee into?


Let’s stay Biblical here—honestly.


Now, let’s hear your answer to this.

B - So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

Again, first, tell us what is the abomination of desolation exactly?

C - Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days..............I Come to gather MY Elect"

See you are skipping the verses. Read carefully:

Mat 24:29-31

• Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
• And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
• And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And compare with others:

Luk 21:25-28

• And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
• Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
• And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
• And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
  
  Mar 13:24-27
• But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
• And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
• And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
• And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Now look carefully at what’s being said. There is a specific time for the signs in the sun, moon, and stars—during the little season, after the tribulation of those days. The Lord is pointing directly to the judgment on the unfaithful congregation first, exactly as 1 Peter 4:17 states: judgment begins at the house of God. This is not complicated unless someone forces a physical-cosmic interpretation where Scripture itself uses symbolic, prophetic language.


Do you even realize that the woman in Revelation 12—representing the congregation—has the sun, moon, and stars? Think about that. These symbols belong to God’s covenant Church which falls when she become unfaithful, not to some astronomical disaster. So which makes more Biblical sense here? That God is describing the collapse of the visible cosmos… or the symbolic judgment of the unfaithful congregation before Christ appears in the clouds to gather His Elect?

Do you realize that there are "one hour" for the judgment of the church before Christ returns?

Rev 18:16-20
(16) And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
(17) For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
(18) And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
(19) And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
(20) Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

This is where the abomination of desolation is found at. Unfaithful Church! It is an hour (symbolically, of course) that the Lord shall judge his unfaithful congregation as we watch while we are on Earth. This is why God has moved His chosen Elect out of the church before he judges her to avenge us! See? This is how we realize that Christ's coming is very close, right after this hour of judgment is finished.

So again, tell us exactly what cause the abomination of desolation to set up that we, Elect, can "see" and need to flee from?

 

[David in NJ]

No, you do NOT.



Simple? LOL...



Your mistake is to take the verse out of context:

Matthew 24:14-15

• "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
• When ye therefore shall SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"

The church preaching of the Gospel for salvation is finished with all Elect secured, then the end will come. What is the end? Isn't it the little season prior to the Second Coming when we shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the Holy Place? Do you even know exactly what is abomination of desolation is? And the holy place on this side of the Cross where the abomination of desolation will stand?
and the next verse in 16 says:

Mat 24:16

• Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

What Holy Place of Judaea are we to flee from? What other Holy Place is there that you know of wherein we can flee from it when abomination stands in it? Where are these Mountains that these believers are going to flee to? Let's try and be Biblical here! Honestly!

Let hear your answer to this.




Again, first, tell us what is the abomination of desolation exactly?



See you are skipping the verses. Read carefully:

Mat 24:29-31

• Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
• And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
• And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And compare with others:

Luk 21:25-28

• And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
• Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
• And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
• And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
  
  Mar 13:24-27
• But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
• And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
• And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
• And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

There will be a time for the signs in the sun moon and stars which will take place during the short season! The Lord is talking about the judgment of the unfaithful congregation here which must take place first, 1st Peter 4:17. Do you realize the woman in revelation 12 as a congregation has the sun, moon, and stars, right? Think about it! These represents the congregation of God! Do you think God is talking about a physical cosmic catastrophe with sun going dark and stars falling? Or symbolically the judgment of unfaithful congregation which must take place BEFORE Christ appears in the air to gather His Elect?

Your mistake is to take the verse out of context:

Nope, verses are word for word and in order = for brevity i only chose THREE that are specific to your position

Do you understand what the Lord is saying here?

YEPPER = 100%

The church preaching of the Gospel for salvation is finished with all Elect secured, then the end will come

YEPPER = 100%

What is the end?

YEPPER = The church preaching of the Gospel for salvation is finished with all Elect secured, then the end will come

Isn't it the little season prior to the Second Coming

Nope - ABSOLUTELY NOT - man made conjecture and adding to God's words = BAD = DO NOT do this!!!

when we shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the Holy Place? Do you even know exactly what is abomination of desolation is?

YEPPER

And the holy place on this side of the Cross where the abomination of desolation will stand?

YEPPER

Again, first, tell us what is the abomination of desolation exactly?

JESUS said it was as Daniel prophesied
Which is similar but not necessarily exact to what JESUS said of John the Baptist = "If you will, this is Elijah who was to come"

Jews returned(by Divine Will) to Israel and re-established in 1948 , therefore we are approaching the 2nd Coming

AoD is two-fold as shown us in Genesis and Daniel and 2 Thess and Revelation

Let's Believe JESUS here!!! = "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God

 

[David in NJ]

As you engage online with Premils, you start to notice that 1 Peter 5:8 seems to be many of their most popular quoted Scripture in the Bible outside of Revelation 20. Let us read it: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” Premils stop here. They go no further. The reason is: they are determined to elevate the power of Satan and degrade the power of Christ and His Church during this current new covenant age. They (notably) never quote the very next verse. 1 Peter 5:9 affirms, “whom resist stedfast in the faith.”

The true Church of Jesus Christ is a resistance movement. While Satan resists us, the Bible says we have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against us. We resist the lawlessness and evil encroachments of the devil around us. That is because since the binding of Satan, Christ has given us power over him. He is a defeated foe!

In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

This is incredible! You resist, he must flee. When the devil plants a temptation, a doubt or a fear, you simply have to resist it, whereupon Satan must get his boots on and run. This word “flee” in the original means to escape, flee away or vanish. Now think about it. When you resist, he must disappear. The conflict today for the Church is not an earthly battle to possess an earthly territory but a spiritual battle to possess spiritual territory.

That is because since the binding of Satan, Christ has given us power over him. He is a defeated foe!

Question: In your statement above, is this 'binding' you speak of where satan is bound in prison & sealed for 1k years /Rev 20:1-3 ???

 

[TribulationSigns]

Nope, verses are word for word and in order = for brevity i only chose THREE that are specific to your position


YEPPER = 100%


YEPPER = 100%


YEPPER = The church preaching of the Gospel for salvation is finished with all Elect secured, then the end will come


Nope - ABSOLUTELY NOT - man made conjecture and adding to God's words = BAD = DO NOT do this!!!


YEPPER


YEPPER


JESUS said it was as Daniel prophesied
Which is similar but not necessarily exact to what JESUS said of John the Baptist = "If you will, this is Elijah who was to come"

Jews returned(by Divine Will) to Israel and re-established in 1948 , therefore we are approaching the 2nd Coming

AoD is two-fold as shown us in Genesis and Daniel and 2 Thess and Revelation

Let's Believe JESUS here!!! = "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God

Exactly as expected — still dodging every honest questions and clinging to that national-Israel fairy tale like it’s gospel. I rest my case. Yepper.

 

[WPM]

Question: In your statement above, is this 'binding' you speak of where satan is bound in prison & sealed for 1k years /Rev 20:1-3 ???

Spiritual binding of Satan placing him in a spiritual prison 2000 years ago.

 

[David in NJ]

Spiritual binding of Satan placing him in a spiritual prison 2000 years ago.

OK now

Let the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth be your Guide into the Authority of Scripture to see if your statement is yea or nay!!!

Where is that statement from the Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospel and the Apostles and Revelation

It must pass the Test in all three areas as stated.

 

[WPM]

OK now

Let the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth be your Guide into the Authority of Scripture to see if your statement is yea or nay!!!

Where is that statement from the Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospel and the Apostles and Revelation

It must pass the Test in all three areas as stated.

Does it even matter if I present it? TS has already presented the evidence and you have already avoided it. I also have presented this before. I will try again:

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

The arrival of the kingdom of God spelt defeat for the kingdom of Satan. We cannot underestimate the impact and importance of Jesus casting out devils during his earthly ministry. It was crucial, historic and symbolic. That is because it demonstrated that the kingdom of God had arrived and was confronting, overcoming and ruling over the kingdom of darkness. It showed where ultimate spiritual power resided. It also confirmed that Christ was here to open the prison doors of the bound, strip the kingdom of darkness of its influence and exercise real power and dominion over the devil's territory.

Just like Christ used the humility of a child and brought him forward in Matthew 18 and presented him as an example of what it is to be a Christian within the kingdom of God, He used this incident with the subjugation of a demon as an opportunity to highlight the power He had over Satan and presented it as forceful evidence of the spiritual restraint Satan suffered through His life, death and resurrection.

The Lord identifies the casting out of devils, and the resulting liberating of souls, with the actual binding of the strong man. He in turn presents this as proof that Satan is curbed through the presence and victorious function of the kingdom of God. Christ was specifically referring to Satan here (the strong man) and his demonic kingdom, and expressly connects his binding with the manifestation of the kingdom of God during His earthly ministry. The subjugating of devils was proof of the spiritual restraint of the evil one. Satan could not prevent this. Satan could not overcome those who had been rescued by Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvelously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Our Savior demonstrates that the powerful deliverances He had accomplished were done by the Spirit of God. They revealed the power and presence of the kingdom of God. Christ showed that the kingdom of darkness was subject to the kingdom of God. To enter the strong man’s house was to come to earth and invade Satan’s kingdom with salvation and deliverance. Christ’s earthly ministry commenced the invasion of Satan’s house and the cross secured the legal binding. The blind and dumb man in this story belonged to the devil’s kingdom. Christ entered Satan’s evil house and rescued the redeemed, translating them into newness of life. Christ has been doing this ever since. There can be no other interpretation to take from this.

Remember, this was just prior to Christ’s death.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

This familiar discourse by our Lord came as a response to the crude scoffs of the religious Scribes dismissing Christ’s deliverance ministry as a work of Satan. Christ’s reply confirmed that the binding of Satan commenced 2,000 yrs ago and is not simply a future hope that will occur after the Lord’s return. Christ was firstly referring to the false charge that was laid at his door in relation to his assault on the demonic realm. Secondly, He was demonstrating the subjugation of the “unclean spirits” as “when they saw him” they “fell down before him” in surrender.

Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, “if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

Our Lord is telling us here that the casting out devils is proof that His kingdom has come. He highlights the sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. This was proof that He was indeed the true Messiah and that He carried all power over Satan.

As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was stripped everywhere that Christ confronted him. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and spoilt His goods. Previously, Satan's grip on the nations was so strong and so embedded that the truth of God's Word could not penetrate through. The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.

Christ said: “When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.” This was a direct reference to the unchallenged power of Satan over the nations in the Old Testament. The vast territory of the Gentile nations was under his evil control. He governed the nations at will and operated in an unmolested environment – thus “his goods” were said to be “in peace.”

Satan’s wicked grip over the nations was loosened by the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Many millions were liberated by His message of hope and liberation. In fact, if anything was representative of Christ’s ministry it was the binding of the works of darkness and the deliverance of the afflicted. Christ defeated the power of Satan and all his minions with His sinless life, His vicarious death and His victorious resurrection and therefore wholly fulfilled His earthly assignment. The advance of the kingdom of God therefore has seen the pushing back of the devil’s frontline throughout the nations. It is not that he can’t still create havoc and deceive people; it is that he can’t hinder the triumphant advance of the Gospel throughout the world.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound [Gr. deo] him a thousand years (or a long time), And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly as expected — still dodging every honest questions and clinging to that national-Israel fairy tale like it’s gospel. I rest my case. Yepper.

Well you indeed rest your case but the TRUTH Remains the Same = "It is Written"

And the specific writing of the Holy Spirit RESTED His Case Way before yours and you need to submit to His Case Study

It is written = "This gospel will be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end will come"

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Gospel is still being preached to the nations and we are very Close to the End.

BAD NEWS FLASH = the AoD spoken by Daniel the prophet is on his way to being revealed = 2 Thess ch2

GOOD NEWS FLASH = He will be destroyed at the Brightness of CHRISTS 2nd Coming = 2 Thess ch2

BAD NEWS FLASH = Many will take his Mark and be sealed for Destruction = 2 Thess ch2 and Revelation ch12 & 13

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Saints Overcome Satan by the BLOOD of the LAMB and the word of their Testimony

 

[WPM]

Well you indeed rest your case but the TRUTH Remains the Same = "It is Written"

And the specific writing of the Holy Spirit RESTED His Case Way before yours and you need to submit to His Case Study

It is written = "This gospel will be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end will come"

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Gospel is still be preached to the nations and we are very Close to the End.

BAD NEWS FLASH = the AoD spoken by Daniel the prophet is on his way to being revealed = 2 Thess ch2

GOOD NEWS FLASH = He will be destroyed at the Brightness of CHRISTS 2nd Coming = 2 Thess ch2

BAD NEWS FLASH = Many will take his Mark and be sealed for Destruction = 2 Thess ch2 and Revelation ch12 & 13

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Saints Overcome Satan by the BLOOD of the LAMB and the word of their Testimony

Where is "the AoD spoken by Daniel the prophet revealed = 2 Thess ch2"?

 

[David in NJ]

Spiritual binding of Satan placing him in a spiritual prison 2000 years ago.

You did not answer the question!!!

Is the 'binding' you spoke of in your Post 158 = Is it Revelation 20:1-3 ???

Yes or No as commanded by Our LORD Jesus Christ = Matthew 5:37

Thank You

 

[WPM]

You did not answer the question!!!

Is the 'binding' you spoke of in your Post 158 = Is it Revelation 20:1-3 ???

Yes or No as commanded by Our LORD Jesus Christ = Matthew 5:37

Thank You

Hello! Read what I wrote! You seem to have a reading or a comprehension problem.

Yes. I quoted Rev 20 in my post!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Hello! Read what I wrote! You seem to have a reading or a comprehension problem.

Yes. I quoted Rev 20 in my post!!!

3 hours sleep last nite and i missed your answer -

 

[David in NJ]

Hello! Read what I wrote! You seem to have a reading or a comprehension problem.

Yes. I quoted Rev 20 in my post!!!

edited my post

i only had 3 hrs sleep last night

 

[David in NJ]

Hello! Read what I wrote! You seem to have a reading or a comprehension problem.

Yes. I quoted Rev 20 in my post!!!

OK Brother = Big THANK YOU

i am crashing now from only 3hrs sleep last nite

Will pick UP with you later

Good Nite

 

[WPM]

OK Brother = Big THANK YOU

i am crashing now from only 3hrs sleep last nite

Will pick UP with you later

Good Nite

OK bro!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well you indeed rest your case but the TRUTH Remains the Same = "It is Written"

And the specific writing of the Holy Spirit RESTED His Case Way before yours and you need to submit to His Case Study

It is written = "This gospel will be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end will come"

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Gospel is still being preached to the nations and we are very Close to the End.

BAD NEWS FLASH = the AoD spoken by Daniel the prophet is on his way to being revealed = 2 Thess ch2

GOOD NEWS FLASH = He will be destroyed at the Brightness of CHRISTS 2nd Coming = 2 Thess ch2

BAD NEWS FLASH = Many will take his Mark and be sealed for Destruction = 2 Thess ch2 and Revelation ch12 & 13

GOOD NEWS FLASH = the Saints Overcome Satan by the BLOOD of the LAMB and the word of their Testimony

Hopelessly lost in premillennial delusion. Completely clueless. Ignored.

 

[David in NJ]

Hopelessly lost in premillennial delusion. Completely clueless. Ignored.

Well, if i were you i would run to the Truth to get out from being "hopelessly lost"

 

[Nancy]

How is it that 70 AD's destruction of the temple back then was worse than what we see in this generation? Have we not seen much worse tribulations since then? I am curious and not trying to argue. We all have our beliefs and mine have changed over the decades. This is a genuine question, and the verses I quoted only seem to say it will be WORSE than the world has ever seen or ever will see.
Thank you!

Joel 2:2
"a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like the dawn overspreading the mountains a great and strong army appears, such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come." Bigger than the World Wars? Bigger than the genocides of the world?

Matt. 24:21
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."