God has only got one chosen people

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Zao is life

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Chatgpt as my Bible teacher? Where was Chatgpt 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago? If I didn't need it as Bible teacher back then why would I need it as one now?

Exactly.

Chatgpt has never changed my mind about anything I already believe and have concluded way before there was such a thing as Chatgpt. If anything, it tends to agree a lot of times with what I believe and have concluded.

That's fine if you use it as your own personal tool but don't use it as your "source" for your argument. Use it to word what you want to say in debate - but don't tell the person "Chat GPT says this" because that implies

(a) "therefore, I'm right"; and
(b) "I do not have to consider anything else you say about this if it contradicts what Chat GPT told me, because you are wrong, according to Chat GPT"

Maybe that's the attraction? After all, who doesn't like being agreed with about things?

I get incensed when Chat GPT agrees with me and compliments my insight or whatever because I know that Chat GPT is a man-made collection of electronic circuits filled with data and even if it was human I would not like someone who doesn't even know or care about me, personally, patronizing me with flattery.

The fact that Chat GPT does that is an audacity that who knows whether it was programmed into it by a human or it programmed itself to flatter people.

Especially when one is convinced they are correct, when there are others that are unconvinced they are correct. Therefore, I say take agreement about something wherever you can find it, if you are someone such as me. Even if means it's Chatgpt being in agreement with what you are concluding.

There's more than one danger in it that you do not see, and I can say that you do not see it, based on what you say above.

The first danger is that if both you and Chat GPT are wrong about something, you will never know because you have blocked the Holy Spirit from illuminating the scriptures for you.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Rom. 11: 26........ Zech. 12: 7 - 10...........13: 1 - 9 ..........14: 16
Do you think Paul would ever contradict himself? Based on your understanding of Romans 11:26, it seems so. How does what he said in the following verse agree with your understanding of Romans 11:26?

Romans 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved.

Why would Paul talk about a remnant of the nation of Israel being saved and then later contradict himself by saying that all of the nation of Israel will be saved?

You referenced Zechariah 12:7-10 and Zechariah 13:1-9. Are you aware that Jesus referenced Zechariah 12:10 in a first coming context in John 19:37? Are you aware that Jesus referenced Zechariah 13:7 in a first coming context in Matthew 26:31?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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We both agree concerning the Body of Christ now after 4,000 years. However, God must have had a purpose for waiting that long. And just saying that we are all now one group does NOT account for that purpose as written in God`s word.
That is besides the point as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of why it took that long, all believers are part of one body now. Maybe you can start a new thread about why it took as long as it did for the Father to send His Son to join Jew and Gentile believers together as one body. How long that took just does not have anything to do with the topic of this thread, as far as I can tell.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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No I stopped that because I saw you in the mirror.
You stopped that? When did that happen? How did you stop that when you jumped into this thread with a bunch of stuff to support Premil when you knew that the point of this thread was to refute dispensationalism? You know you were trying to stir things up and debate Amil vs. Premil when you came in here with your post supporting Premil. You knew that was not the point of this thread and that it related to dispensationalism. Just because one time he mistakenly referred to premils instead of pretribs doesn't mean he was making statements about premil in general. Everything else he said was clearly in reference to dispensationalism and we all know that not all premils are dispensationalists.

Also, you have a pattern of going back and forth with refraining from personal insults to firing off a slew of personal insults, so it's hard for me to think this will last long. I hope it does, though.

Now I just look at the words of Christ and by the Holy Spirit I inwardly know whether or not I'm reflecting Him.
Good for you. When I see nonsense going on, I call it out. Jesus did that, too.

Like I said, I'm not returning your personal insults anymore - my first sentence above is not an insult. It's the truth.
I didn't make any personal insults. To call your comments foolish is not the same as calling you a fool, but that's how you took it. Don't blame me that you don't know the difference.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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AI Dave,

You just use Chatgpt to justify your false teaching now. Talk about misguided and foolish. You no longer seem to need the Bible and the Holy Spirit to do that for you.
That's what he's not getting. He thought I was saying he was using ChatGPT to tell him what to believe. No, I didn't say that. But, it's almost as bad to try to use ChatGPT to confirm something you believe, as if ChatGPT is a reliable source to confirm whether something we believe is true or not. It obviously is not. So, he is consulting with ChatGPT for confirmation of what is biblically true instead of the Holy Spirit, which is a very bad idea.
 
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Zao is life

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My point is that ChatGPT should not have any influence at all over your understanding of a verse or over the confidence level you have that your understanding is correct. You should not only not use ChatGPT to gain understanding of biblical truth, but you should not use it to confirm your understanding, either.
:Thumbsup: 100% of 100%
 

Zao is life

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You ...


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...................................... All four walls are covered with mirrors. Anyone who's been drinking is not going to find his way out.
 
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Marilyn C

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Quote and explain. This means nothing. This is the tactic Van Imp has used for years deceiving people.
OK. I thought the scriptures were pretty self-explanatory. However, I can see that if one believes a different view then it needs explaining.

Rom. 11: 26 `(`...a hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.) And so all Israel will be saved. `

So when the fullness/completion of the Gentiles has come in, refers to the end of the Gentiles ruling. Luke 21: 20 tells us that is when Jerusalem will be surrounded and God steps in and deals with the world`s armies. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21)

Zech. 12: 7 - 10 `The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem: the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them.

It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 7 - 10)


Clearly we see the timing is when the LORD delivers the nation of Israel from ALL the nations that tried to destroy it. The LORD will reveal Himself to them and by the Spirit open their eyes to receive Him. They go into mourning for a time.


Zech. 13: 1 & 2 `In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and uncleaness. "It shall be in that day," says the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land.` (Zech. 13: 1 & 2)

These scriptures reveal the LORD cleaning the people AND the land as He said.

Zech. 14: 16 & 17. And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left os all the nations which come against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that which ever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.` (Zech. 14: 16 & 17)

This reveals that Israel will be fulfilling God`s purpose for them to rule the nations of the world (after God has delivered them and cleansed them and their land.) If some of the nations do not go up to worship the King then having `no rain` means - no crops, famine, disease and death.
 

Marilyn C

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Do you think Paul would ever contradict himself? Based on your understanding of Romans 11:26, it seems so. How does what he said in the following verse agree with your understanding of Romans 11:26?

Romans 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved.

Why would Paul talk about a remnant of the nation of Israel being saved and then later contradict himself by saying that all of the nation of Israel will be saved?

You referenced Zechariah 12:7-10 and Zechariah 13:1-9. Are you aware that Jesus referenced Zechariah 12:10 in a first coming context in John 19:37? Are you aware that Jesus referenced Zechariah 13:7 in a first coming context in Matthew 26:31?
The remnant are the whole of Israel left.

`Two-thirds shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, "This is my people," and each will say, "The LORD is my God." (Zech. 13: 8 & 9)

How can it be the first coming. The nation of Israel did not repent.
 

Marilyn C

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That is besides the point as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of why it took that long, all believers are part of one body now. Maybe you can start a new thread about why it took as long as it did for the Father to send His Son to join Jew and Gentile believers together as one body. How long that took just does not have anything to do with the topic of this thread, as far as I can tell.
Yes, it does for it reveals God`s purpose for the Body of Christ as well as Israel and the nations.

What scripture do you base your view that God`s only purpose is to make the Body of Christ?
 

Davidpt

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There's more than one danger in it that you do not see, and I can say that you do not see it, based on what you say above.

Why do some assume the worst about me at times, as if I have no brain in my head? As if I can't see any of these things myself? This is not the 80s anymore. In the 80s I was indeed naive about a lot of things. But that was then, this is now.

Not the way I see it based on what I already said---Chatgpt has never changed my mind about anything I already believe and have concluded way before there was such a thing as Chatgpt.

For example. Let's say that I converse with Chatgpt about Matthew 24:30, 34. And that's it's position is that Preterists are interpreting those verses correctly, not futurists. In that case it doesn't matter what Chatgpt might argue, it is never going to convince me to change my position in regards to those 2 verses.

OTOH. Let's say one's position is that gay marriage and abortion is moral, thus not wrong, subjects @WPM brought up earlier. Then they converse with Chatgpt about it and Chatgpt agrees these things are not immoral, thus not wrong. In that case, there is indeed a danger here with Chatgpt agreeing with someone. But that is not going to happen to someone like me, though. For one, I already said Chatgpt has never changed my mind about something I already believe and have concluded.

Therefore, since I already believe and have concluded that gay marriage and abortions are immoral, no way in a million years is Chatgpt, or anyone else for that matter, going to convince me to change my position about that. OTOH, if it instead agreed with me after me arguing what I ended up arguing, why would that be so bad? BTW, I'm not going to converse with Chatgpt about those subjects to begin with, but if I did this is simply how it would go. That being the hypothetical point.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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You ...



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...................................... All four walls are covered with mirrors. Anyone who's been drinking is not going to find his way out.
Look. Let's be adults here. I like some of the things you're saying in this thread. And you complimented one of my posts. Let's just leave the Amil vs. Premil debate and the personal insults out of it. This thread is supposed to be about refuting dispensationalism and it's denial of God having only one chosen people. And about warning of the dangers of using ChatGPT as well, I guess.
 
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WPM

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OK. I thought the scriptures were pretty self-explanatory. However, I can see that if one believes a different view then it needs explaining.

Rom. 11: 26 `(`...a hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.) And so all Israel will be saved. `

So when the fullness/completion of the Gentiles has come in, refers to the end of the Gentiles ruling. Luke 21: 20 tells us that is when Jerusalem will be surrounded and God steps in and deals with the world`s armies. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21)

Hardening

Paul shows throughout his teaching that there are two groups within Israel: one faithful and true, the other unfaithful and merely professing. One is known as “the election” (or “the elect”) and the other as the “blinded” or ‘hardened ones’. One is a friend of God, the other is an enemy of His. One is all outward, the other is inward. God shows Himself bound to one, and strongly against the other. Sadly, Dispensationalists back the wrong Israel in their teachings. They choose natural Christ-rejecting apostate Israel, above the elect spiritual remnant in order to justify their false doctrine. In doing so, they miss the whole development of faithful Israel into the New Testament Church.

We see the whole dichotomy between true Israel and false Israel throughout Romans 9-11. Romans 11:7-10 corresponds, “What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded [Gr. poroo – hardened]. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.”

This is actually saying the opposite to what many Premillennialists argue. In fact, it is actually saying what is says: “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for.” In short, salvation or favor with God has absolutely nothing to do with one’s ethnicity. It is not about being an Israelite; it is nothing to do with racial status or nationality; it is all to do with being chosen – namely being one of God’s elect remnant. This is the only means of favor with God. This spiritual family are the true Israel and the only accepted people of God. To be of the “election” one has to have a real personal intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

To paraphrase this passage and its meaning in common language, ‘it is not the sum-total of natural Israel that has obtained the salvation it wishes, but only they who have entered into the election of grace by faith; the remaining Israelis that depend upon their own pitiful religious efforts are blind’. God has only partially set Israel aside. A distinguished faithful remnant remains committed to Yahweh through faith in Christ. This indeed is “a remnant according to the election of grace.” Israel is hence split into two camps. Israel, like any other nation, had two distinct peoples, one saved and the other lost. The saved are God’ elect and have been saved by His wondrous grace. The lost foolishly depend upon their own works and are accordingly damned because of it.

The New King James Version is slightly clearer, “What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.”

Until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in

Where does it suggest anywhere that anything other than "the end" happens after the Gentiles come in?

Jesus said in Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
 

Marilyn C

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Until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in

Where does it suggest anywhere that anything other than "the end" happens after the Gentiles come in?

Jesus said in Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
The word `end` in Greek means a setting out to a goal.

1 Cor. 15: 24 tells us that it is a setting out to the goal as the Lord puts down all rule, authority and power. And in scripture we see that is over time.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The word `end` in Greek means a setting out to a goal.

1 Cor. 15: 24 tells us that it is a setting out to the goal as the Lord puts down all rule, authority and power. And in scripture we see that is over time.
No, that is what He will do on the day He returns when He takes vengeance on all unbelievers. It's not something that will happen over time.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

By destroying all unbelievers on the day He returns He will put down all earthly rule, authority and power, bringing "the end" to this evil world and its ways once and for all.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The remnant are the whole of Israel left.

`Two-thirds shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, "This is my people," and each will say, "The LORD is my God." (Zech. 13: 8 & 9)

How can it be the first coming. The nation of Israel did not repent.
Are you questioning Jesus's understanding of Zechariah 13:7 which has the same timing of Zechariah 13:8-9?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
 
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WPM

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The word `end` in Greek means a setting out to a goal.

1 Cor. 15: 24 tells us that it is a setting out to the goal as the Lord puts down all rule, authority and power. And in scripture we see that is over time.
You negate a literal rendering of every orginal word and every end-time passage we discuss. You should write your own Bible to sustain your error.

What the Bible attributes to the end is climactic. Hello! This is when the kingdom is given over to the Father by Christ. All rule and authority is eliminated. This forbids Pretrib and Premil.

Twist Scripture all you want but your doctrine has been torched on this board.

Sadly, you have no shame. Sad!
 

Davidpt

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You negate a literal rendering of every orginal word and every end-time passage we discuss. You should write your own Bible to sustain your error.

What the Bible attributes to the end is climactic. Hello! This is when the kingdom is given over to the Father by Christ. All rule and authority is eliminated. This forbids Pretrib and Premil.

Twist Scripture all you want but your doctrine has been torched on this board.

Sadly, you have no shame. Sad!

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

What 'end' do you assume is being meant here? It seems to me that one is not rewarded with power over the nations until they have first overcome and kept His works until the end. And if the end is meaning the end of their life, for example, it makes sense per Amil exactly how, that they are then rewarded with power over the nations after they died, when Amil doesn't even believe in a period of time, meaning the millennium in this case, is required after Christ has returned in order for them to exercise this authority over the nations?
 
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WPM

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Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

What 'end' do you assume is being meant here? It seems to me that one is not rewarded with power over the nations until they have first overcome and kept His works until the end. And if the end is meaning the end of their life, for example, it makes sense per Amil exactly how, that they are then rewarded with power over the nations after they died, when Amil doesn't even believe in a period of time, meaning the millennium in this case, is required after Christ has returned in order for them to exercise this authority over the nations?
Amils believe that we are in Rev 20 now since the first resurrection of Christ. We reign in life and when we die we reign with Christ on high.