What makes a doctrine false?

[quietthinker]

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed Quiet - I'm a Christadelphian and have almost nothing in common with traditional Christians.

perhaps you don't hurt and cry and bleed as others do?

On this topic I am in agreement with every Apostle and the Lord Jesus himself.

in your opinion!

If that is your perception, you have failed to understand my motives clearly. Yet your refusal to engage with Romans 8:1 after being shown your error speaks volumes about your pride.

Romans 8:1 is self explanatory. It is the continuation of Romans 7. Romans 8:1 is not disconnected from Pauls assertions of Romans 7.

 

[Hiddenthings]

perhaps you don't hurt and cry and bleed as others do?

Knowing you have the pearl why would one cry?

Romans 8:1 is self explanatory.

But you cannot explain it?

 

[quietthinker]

Knowing you have the pearl why would one cry?

Empathy!

But you cannot explain it?

It is as obvious as a train smash....yet you don't see it?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Empathy!

That another has the pearl of great price and you are still searching?

It is as obvious as a train smash....yet you don't see it?

That only those who are found to be "in" Christ are not condemned.

What happens to those who are without?

 

[quietthinker]

That another has the pearl of great price and you are still searching?

That only those who are found to be "in" Christ are not condemned.

What happens to those who are without?

No doubt you haven't considered the meaning (implications) of the joining word 'therefore'

 

[Hiddenthings]

No doubt you haven't considered the meaning (implications) of the joining word 'therefore'

Exactly. In chapter 7 Paul describes his mental anguish of someone under the Law, outside of salvation and chapter 8 then explains how being in Christ brings deliverance / salvation.

It’s really quite straightforward, and you don’t need a theological degree to see the connection.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@quietthinker Whether someone is under the Law or a Gentile apart from it, Romans 8:1 applies only to those who are in Christ—baptized through faith into His sin-covering name.

It's possible you have not bent your mind to the arguments and principles Paul is using in Romans. It's a work you should start!

 

[quietthinker]

Exactly. In chapter 7 Paul describes his mental anguish of someone under the Law, outside of salvation and chapter 8 then explains how being in Christ brings deliverance / salvation.

It’s really quite straightforward, and you don’t need a theological degree to see the connection.

Romans 5:6-21
All in Adam; All in Christ!.....reiterated 8 times....vs's 6, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19

 

[quietthinker]

Exactly. In chapter 7 Paul describes his mental anguish of someone under the Law, outside of salvation and chapter 8 then explains how being in Christ brings deliverance / salvation.

It’s really quite straightforward, and you don’t need a theological degree to see the connection.

Sorry for not being the sharpest tool in the shed....quite unlike yourself of course! ....post #581

 

[Hiddenthings]

Romans 5:6-21
All in Adam; All in Christ!.....reiterated 8 times....vs's 6, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19

Correct - All are in Adam (no choice!)
Correct - All who are in Christ (have choice) will be saved.

So lets choose one of your verses, the first I looked at:

Romans 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

Hmmm so you have a problem and we have only looked at your first reference.

Paul qualifies for you those who will found to be in Adam (perish) and those in Christ (saved)

Otherwise, Paul's argument falls over! (Correction I thought you were still in Romans 8 - following posts reveal Pauls truth as to who is in Christ Jesus in Romans 5)

 

[Hiddenthings]

Sorry for not being the sharpest tool in the shed....quite unlike yourself of course! ....post #581

Well, that last reply was very blunt - I can sharpen you if you want!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Romans 5:6-21
All in Adam; All in Christ!.....reiterated 8 times....vs's 6, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19

I best look at Romans 5:6 hey?

Romans 5:6 For while we (who?) were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.”

Who is Paul addressing as we?
It is true Christ died for all ungodly but not all are found in Pauls "we"

I'm certain you understand this!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Romans 5:6-21
All in Adam; All in Christ!.....reiterated 8 times....vs's 6, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19

Romans 5:10 “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Paul uses “we”:

• “We have been justified by faith” (v.1)
• “We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (v.1)
• “We have obtained access by faith into this grace” (v.2)
• “God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit” (v.5)
• “While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God” (v.10)
• “We also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (v.11)

Sorry Quiet, but it's a comprehension problem you and St SteVen seem to share.

 

[quietthinker]

I best look at Romans 5:6 hey?

Romans 5:6 For while we (who?) were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.”

Who is Paul addressing as we?
It is true Christ died for all ungodly but not all are found in Pauls "we"

I'm certain you understand this!

The great commission is that of Good News. Do we dare reinterpret it by making it advice?
Such is the subtlety of one presenting himself as an angel of light. Smoke and mirrors is how he attempts to fool the unsuspecting and those who have it in their minds of being teachers of babes.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The great commission is that of Good News. Do we dare reinterpret it by making it advice?
Such is the subtlety of one presenting himself as an angel of light. Smoke and mirrors is how he attempts to fool the unsuspecting and those who have it in their minds of being teachers of babes.

I'll wait for you to deal with the "we" of Romans 5 - evidence has been "freely" given!

 

[rvmb]

@quietthinker Whether someone is under the Law or a Gentile apart from it, Romans 8:1 applies only to those who are in Christ—baptized through faith into His sin-covering name.

It's possible you have not bent your mind to the arguments and principles Paul is using in Romans. It's a work you should start!

Off topic HT, have you ever tried :-

Philosophy & Religion Forum | HotCopper Forum

Philosophy & Religion Forum | Join the HotCopper forum today for free.

hotcopper.com.au

 

[Hiddenthings]

Off topic HT, have you ever tried :-

Philosophy & Religion Forum | HotCopper Forum

Philosophy & Religion Forum | Join the HotCopper forum today for free.

hotcopper.com.au

View attachment 75383

Never seen it before!
Are you a member?

 

[rvmb]

Never seen it before!
Are you a member?

Thinking about it, I've read it as a guest many times but need to join if want to post.
I like the answers and style of how some of the posters write their replies etc

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

Without prejudiced to the copious waffle presented above, the original doctrine embedded in the original language texts contains no error in the Doctrine that God placed in His scriptures.

What make God's doctrine false are our feeble attempts to express it in a language that we understand, expressed and in a manner that we are comfortable with.

 

[complete]

I imagine the same was true of each of the Apostles.​

Each one taught the doctrine that they had received.​

The Apostle Peter recognized that what Paul was teaching differed from others.​

Thus confirming the fact.​

​

2 Peter 3:16 NIV​

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.​

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,​

as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

​

Little know fact about Apollos.

Some quick Wiki research indicates that he knew only of the Baptism of John. (initially) Acts 18:24-26 NIV Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord...

www.christianityboard.com

'And when they had appointed him a day,
there came many to him into his lodging;
to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
persuading them concerning Jesus,
both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets,
from morning till evening.
And some believed the things which were spoken,
and some believed not.'
(Act 28:23-24)

Hello St. SteVen,

Yes, the twelve Apostles, continued the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ to the Jew, either within the land or in the diaspora, being 'them that heard Him' (Heb. 2:3) they confirmed the Lord's ministry, having witnessed all that He did and said, including His resurrection (Acts 1:21-22).

Paul also ministered to the Jew first (Rom. 1:16), throughout the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles: for the repentance of Israel was the priority until Acts 28 (Acts 3:18-20); when salvation ceased to be 'of the Jew'(Rom. 1:16) but was sent to the Gentiles; for unlike the nation of Israel, they would hear it. (Acts 28:28). It was while 'The Lord's Prisoner' that a revelation was given to Paul, from the risen Christ to minister to the saints and faithful believers on the Lord Jesus Christ among the nations, regardless of their nationality. This is the subject of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, written during that period by Paul. The Jew was no longer given priority.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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