Ammillennialism's illegitimate redefining and switching around of the meaning of Greek words and biblical concepts
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Amen brother....I did talk about the RCC in post 209, but I should be linking the apostate protestant realm with the RCC more.....her "daughters".
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
AMEN
1 Corinthians chapter 15 is PROPHECY that we are waiting for in CHRIST at His 2nd Coming
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
@Archie @VictoryinJesus @Hazelelponi
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
the OT saints have NOT been resurrected = there is only One Resurrection for all the Saints = at His Coming = Daniel 12:1-3
1“At that time Michael shall stand up, = Revelation 12:7
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
The Bible describes man as a tripartite being, composed of body, soul and spirit. Our physical man is visible but our soul and spirit are invisible. That is because we are made in the image of God (Gen 1:27). God is tripartite. Like us, He is visible (through Christ) and also invisible (through the Father and the Spirit). 1 Thessalonians 5:23 declares, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole (1) spirit and (2) soul and (3) body blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
While we all agree that we have a physical "outward man" (2Co 4:16) we instinctively know there is more to us than that. In fact, the believer knows that there is a constant conflict within us between two natures - one sinful and the other holy. The Bible variously describes us as possessing a soul and spirit. Our "soul" is our natural man and our "spirit" is our spiritual man. These two are in wholesale conflict. They have opposing natures and inclinations.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This passage shows us that there is one weapon that God employs to expose one and edify the other - the Word of God. The Word cuts right down the middle between the soul and spirit or the natural man and the spiritual man within a believer. Why? Because our soulish man is dead to spiritual matters and opposed to holy things but our spirit is alive and receptive to the truth.
Our spirit receives the truth and cannot sin. 1Jn 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." But our natural can do nothing else but sin. 1Jn 1:8 tells us "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." John is not contradicting himself. He is describing the great internal battle Christians experience. We are not bipolar. We simply have two opposing natures after salvation - also known as flesh and spirit.
Gal 5:16 Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
When we get saved the Spirit of God comes to reside within is and reveals Christ. He quickens, resurrects and energizes our spirit - giving us holy inclinations and abilities. Gives us desires that we never had before. The things we used to hate we now love. The things we used to love we now hate. When we feed our spirit with God's Word we grow in God. However, when we feed our soul (or flesh) we sin. Our soul is called our "old man" and has been there from birth. But when we are born again Christ (the new man) comes to reside within us spiritually and begins to call the shots.
The NT constantly exhorts us to put off our old man, our flesh or our soul to death daily. That is because his desires conflict with our new man, our new nature, our spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:10-16: “God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
Albert Barnes says: “The word ‘natural’ here stands opposed evidently to ‘spiritual’. It denotes those who are governed and influenced by the natural instincts; the animal passions and desires, in opposition to those who are influenced by the Spirit of God.”
Romans 8:5-8: “For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Romans 6:3-6: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
There is a part of us that Scripture requires us to put to death. If we just had one nature, one part to us, why would we put that to death?
Jesus said in Luke 9:23-24 “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.”
Your sinful nature (your soul) must be put to death daily!
Paul testified in 1 Corinthians 15:31 “I die daily.”
Who or what has to die within us? Self, carnal nature, our soulish man.
Galatians 2:20: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
Romans 6:6 says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
Colossians 2:10-14 says, “putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism.”
If there was something upright, if there was something holy, if there was some spark of goodness in the flesh, then God would work with it, but there isn’t.
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Matthew 27
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
Every living creature upon the earth having the breath of life is a 'soul'.
Soul:
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
5315. נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (nephesh)
Search for H5315 in KJVSL; in KJV; load in ESI.
נֶפֶשׁ nephesh, neh'-fesh - from H5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):—any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead(-ly), desire, × (dis-) contented, × fish, ghost, greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, slay, soul, tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, × would have it.
Soul is not representative of natural "soulish" man. Because natural man shall not inherit the Kingdom of God in heaven.
Revelation 6:9 (KJV) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Soul indicates being alive both physically and spiritually. While we are alive on earth, we are 'living souls' with both physical form (body of flesh), with spirit (breath of life) and when our physical body dies if we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit our physical body returns to the earth, but our spirit returns to God, and continues to be living soul in spiritual body without physical form. Like Christ has said to have part in the first resurrection that is the resurrection of Christ, we, belonging to the spiritual body of Christ shall NEVER die. This is what Paul means when he says when we die, we are absent from the body but present with the Lord, and when our natural body dies, we still belong to the spiritual body of Christ in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1Cor 15:35-44)
The Spirit does not resurrect our spirit, He cleanses our spirit. by giving us a new heart that is changed, no longer a stony heart of hardened flesh, desiring the things of this world, but a new heart that seeks after God. This is not a spiritual resurrection, rather it is likened to being born again, as a newborn babe no longer under bondage to the flesh that is destined to die. Changed from natural man to spiritual man no longer desiring to fulfill the lusts of our natural flesh.
Ezekiel 36:25-26 (KJV) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Have you not read this part in Daniel 12:2 though---and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
You would have us believe that the saints that bodily rose after Christ's resurrection 2000 years ago, that some of them rose to shame and everlasting contempt? You have to be kidding if you think you are interpreting Scripture with Scripture there. Therefore, to use Matthew 27:51-53 to explain Daniel 12:2 is absurd.
Not to mention. Don't some of you even have any regard for chronology when it comes to prophecies in general? The unequaled time of trouble recorded in Daniel 12:1 has to obviously precede the resurrection meant in verse 2.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
March on in the trenches dear sister . Any building , any house , any voice , that contradicts the words OF GOD ALLMIGHTY
and of the LAMB
is a place and voice , a peoples and a house that this sheep will not be sitting under , with , or trying to find common ground with
at all . At the very least it g ets exposed .
I suggest that all lambs immediately take this same stance . Though i think you ALREADY DO sister .
Delusion and judgment of delusion has come and it has come
to unite and merge the DECIEVED of christendom with all the decieved religoins and all that is decieved
to be one people . one tribe , one love lang uage , a love that is of the world by which they shall agree unto .
This delusion IS the DELUSION , and it will be the DELUSION to lead this world
right to the day of armeg eddon , all out rebellion against the ONLY GOD , HIS CHRIST , His gospel
and his saints , to the day wherein they beleived they would attain peace but it will be their own destruction .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Who was it they saw that came out of the graves after His ressurection .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Only a few saints, as compared to when ALL the graves Open of the ALL the saints.
Daniel 12:1-3
1“At that time Michael shall stand up, = Revelation 12:7
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book. = John 6:39 , Luke 10:20
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
Luke 10:20
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
All false doctrines play card games with Scripture = they shuffle the deck until they get the hand that pats them on the back
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Only a few saints, as compared to when ALL the graves Open of the ALL the saints.
Daniel 12:1-3
1“At that time Michael shall stand up, = Revelation 12:7
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book. = John 6:39
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
Luke 10:20
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@Marty fox @Lizbeth @Archie @Hazelelponi @VictoryinJesus
Matt 27:51-53
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
What is MISSING in the Picture given here to us of these saints???
Also, i notice a very very sad behavior of many who will run and stick there head in the sand when shown God's words do not approve of doctrines that speak against His words.
Where did we SEE that before??? = GENESIS 3:10
“I heard Your voice in the garden,” he replied, “and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
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No of course, I don't think that some of the saints rose to shame and everlasting contempt.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Your doctrine, which is called premillennialism whether you like that term or not, is the man-made doctrine. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
The reference to thrones is metaphorical. Your carnal way of looking at things prevents you from understanding the symbolism in the book of Revelation. You refer to "the clear words of Revelation" despite the references to things like a woman sitting on many waters while riding on a scarlet colored beast with seven heads and ten horns. It's foolish to try to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible as literally as possible as Premils like you do.
This shows your ignorance. Many Amils, including myself, believe that the first resurrection itself was Christ's resurrection because scripture teaches that.
Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”
If you believe in interpreting scripture with scripture, then part of the foundation of your understanding of what the first resurrection is about should come from straightforward scripture like Acts 26:23. We also see Christ's resurrection being referenced as the first resurrection unto bodily immortality in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.
So, if we accept what other scripture teaches about the first resurrection we should understand that having part in the first resurrection has to do with having part in Christ's resurrection. And all believers spiritually have part in His resurrection by way of identifying with His death and resurrection by going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ, like the following passage indicates...
Colossians 2: buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
Again, your carnal way of thinking gets in the way of you discovering the truth of the matter. What is presented there is a dragon, which symbolizes Satan, being chained up in a prison. That is not meant to be taken literally. It's a symbolic representation of the fact that the ministry, death and resurrection of Christ, which included Christ taking the power of death away from Satan (Hebrews 2:14-15), brought the hope of eternal life to a world of people who previously had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-13).
Premils do not acknowledge the HUGE effect that the ministry, death and resurrection of Christ had on Satan. There were few people saved in Old Testament times. During those times, people were mostly ignorant. They didn't have access to the truth like there has been in New Testament times. But, in New Testament times that has changed. Instead of few being saved, Revelation 7:9 refers to "a great multitude" from all nations being saved. That was because of what Christ has accomplished by destroying the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) and setting many people free who previously were enslaved by the fear of death by the one holding the power of death, which was Satan (Heb 2:14-15). Instead of Satan holding the power of death, Jesus has been holding the keys of death and Hades since His resurrection (Revelation 1:18).
The only reason you think Satan wasn't bound since the ministry, death and resurrection of Christ is because you don't understand the MAJOR effect that had on Satan.
LOL. Where does it explicitly indicate that the thousand years is literal? Nowhere. So, your claim that we are denying His Word just because we don't take the thousand years literally is LUDICROUS.
Do you take the word "thousand" literally in this verse...
Deuteronomy 7:9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;
Or this one...
Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.
Yes, it absolutely does. Unlike premillennialists, amillennialists do not run away or try to get in a war of insults instead of addressing arguments whenever our view is challenged.
Some Amils, like myself, believe we are in Satan's little season now. The thing to think about is what the difference was during Christ's ministry and after Christ's death and resurrection in relation to Satan. As I said earlier, in OT times few in the world were saved. After that, according to Revelation 7:9, a great multitude that no one can count from all nations are saved. It's not even reasonable to think that could happen with no change occurring in relation to what Satan has been able to do compared to OT times.
Scripture tells us that we have been made kings and priests of God and of Christ. It's up to you whether to believe that or not, but I believe it because scripture says it. You like to claim that you believe scripture for what it says (as in, what it says literally), yet, for some reason, you don't accept what passages like this say...
Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Do you believe that Jesus is now "the ruler over the kings of the earth", as this passage indicates? Do you believe that we have been made "kings and priests to His God and Father" as this passage indicates?
Who says that? This is misrepresenting Amillennialism. God's purpose for the Jews and for all people is to repent of their sins and put their faith in His Son Jesus Christ so that they can be saved and the hope of eternal life while serving Him.
LOL. Talking about allowing God's Word to mean what it says. So childish and carnal. Revelation 17 says a woman sits on many waters while riding a scarlet colored beast with seven heads and ten horns. Should we take that to mean what it says or should we understand that is all symbolic?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You cannot answer any question that exposes your error. This is talking about the general resurrection judgment at the second coming. .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
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