The only source of life and the fallacy of a 'dead' human spirit being 'quickened from death'

[Earburner]

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

Did you know that in Leviticus 17:11, the same word that is used for the soul also refers to the life of the flesh?

"For the life [Hebrew: nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh | Greek: psuchḗ]." (Leviticus 17:11).

Did you know that in the New Testament, the Greek word psuche (also spelled psychḗ) is used interchangeably for:

- The soul; and
- The mind; and
- The life of the flesh?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (breath of life) shall return unto God who gave it.

When Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, we read in the Bible that "her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat." (Luke 8:55).

Where was her spirit after she died?

God is the only source of life. Ever since Adam sinned and began to die, when created human beings are born into the world, we are not born with a life [zoe] that's eternal; and because a created human being does not have eternal life [zoe ainios] in itself, then after the body has died (because the created human being is no longer alive) the spirit of life [zoe] (breath of life) goes back to its source.

What happens to the soul? Does it die with the body?

"Do not fear, I am the First and the Last,
and the Living [zao] One, and I became dead,
and behold, I am alive [zao] for ever and ever, Amen.
And I have the keys of hades and of death."
(Revelation 1:17-18)

"For to this end Christ both died [apothnesko]
and rose [anistemi: resurrection of the body]
and lived again [anazao - alive in the body],
that He might be Lord both of the dead [nekros] and living" [zao: alive in the body]."​

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (Jesus, John 6:63).

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 15:22 Paul wrote the following:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo]." (The context of Paul's words are his teaching on the resurrection).

Therefore it is written,

"God has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made visible by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,

- who has broken the power of death, and has brought life (zoe) and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Timothy 1:9-10).

So Paul can say to those whose bodies die while they are believing in Christ:

"Being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord. Therefore we are also laboring to be well-pleasing to Him, whether at home or away from home." (2 Corinthians 5:6-9).

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul / living being." (Genesis 2:7).

The spirit (breath of life) goes back to its source when the body dies - to Christ in whom is life [zoe] - who is in the bosom of the Father.

The soul of the one whose body dies while they are believing in Christ goes to be where the spirit (breath of life) given by God is. How can you say the soul is dead because the body is dead? Did the soul of the Man Jesus Christ die because His body died? No, because it is written that when Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead.

But you call Moses "dumb as a rock" so if you speak thus of the prophet of God, it's no wonder you do not understand, because clearly, you do not believe the written Word of God when it disagrees with your own beliefs.

To sum up your lengthy discourse, the soul is the mind (brain) of "the natural man", which apart from Christ, is not eternal or immortal at all, and shall rot in the grave (hell) along with all the other organs and the body.

By the way, when the lungs cease to
breathe "the breath of life" aka. Oxygenated air, the first organ to fail is "the soul" aka the mind/brain, whereby the permanent state of unconsciousness sets in, and then finally mortal death of the whole body.
"Nothing eternal or immortal to see here folks". Lol.

Figure it out: "the life of the flesh IS IN the BLOOD"

 

[Zao is life]

Please, for all of what you have imagined and fabricated in describing a "soul", and the whereabouts of it's future, whether it goes back to God, or into some dark corner in God's eternity, it is apparent that you are making God ultimately responsible for multitudes of LOST unsaved "souls" that have Eternal life/existence, and therefore He is to watch over and manage them forever.

Now I see where you are coming from. My memory served me wrongly when I remembered your handle and had you in the Preterist camp. No Preterist would say the things you say. It's straight out of the JW textbook:

However, from my understanding, those who are apart from living in Jesus, there is no such thing as any person having an eternal soul, or has eternal existence of any kind and therefore "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air goes back to the atmosphere upon mortal death.

You have to throw away most of the New Testament to believe what you say above.

The Old Testament's teaching together with the New Testament's teaching:

THE SPIRIT

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

God, who is a spirit, alone possesses eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself, and this life is in the Word (John 1:4), and given to the Son of man to possess in Himself (John 5:26).

"The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456], but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born [gennáō] of the Spirit." (John 3:8).

"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh (body) is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must all be born from above.'" (John 3:6-7).

The one who hears the voice of Jesus hears the voice of what is spirit: "Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456],.."

The Son of man died, bodily - but possessed eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself - so by the eternal spirit His dead body was quickened (made alive again) and was raised from the dead

- and He is now bodily alive [zao] forever - the the ages of the ages - (immortal) (Revelation 1:18)

- and because of the bodily death of the Son of man for our sin and His bodily resurrection from the dead, and because eternal life [zoe aionios] has been given in Christ (1 John 5:11-12) to those who believe in Him (to those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, and been born of Him), those who are in Him when they die bodily,

will also rise from the dead bodily upon His return and live [zao] forever (be immortal), having been given eternal life (eternal spirit) IN HIM.

Since Christ there have been two groups of the seed of Adam:

1. Those who heard the voice of the eternal spirit (the Word of God) and refused to believe (John 3:18-21); and

2. Those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, believed in Him, and IN HIM (Christ) have been given eternal life (eternal spirit) (1 John 5:11-12), having been born of the eternal spirit (John 3:6-7).

The first group will rise from the dead upon the return of Christ (Daniel 12:2; Acts 24:15; John 5:26-29; Matthew 25:31-33, 41 & 46), but having not the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, their names will not be found written in the Lamb's Book of Life - and they will die a second death - which is the lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 11:17-19; Revelation 20:11-15).

The second group will also rise from the dead upon the return of Christ having the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, and they will continue to live [zao] forever (be immortal).

THE SOUL

Acts 2:27 & 31 tell us that the soul of the Son of man went to hades when He died, where by the eternal spirit He preached to imprisoned spirits in hades.

- the Son of man represents all mankind and where His soul went to when He died is the same place all souls go to - THAT'S WHY HIS SOUL WENT THERE on behalf of ALL mankind - because He (the Son of God) is THE SON OF MAN.

The New Testament teaches that until the resurrection of the body from the dead, the body dies but the soul - which the New Testament speaks of as the mind, the life and the soul of the flesh

- goes either to be with Christ until the resurrection of the body, or to hades:

Acts 2:31; 2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24; Revelation 6:9; Luke 16:22-23; Revelation 20:13; Revelation 1:18.

The New Testament also teaches that Christ died and rose again bodily in order that He might be Lord both of the dead and of those who are alive (Romans 14:7-9)

- which - were there no such thing as a soul that continues after death - would make such a statement about Christ's Lordship over the dead meaningless and absurd to even mention

- and in the same passage Paul also says that those who die bodily but in Christ belong to the Lord - which would also be meaningless and an absurd statement to make if there were no form of life or existence following the death of the body (as you assert)

- but Paul also teaches without any ambiguity that those who die bodily but in Christ will be with Christ when we die (2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24) - again meaningless and absurd statements to make, were there no soul to be with Christ after bodily death.

There would also be no dead to be delivered from hades for the resurrection of the body at the time of the return of Christ were there no souls in hades (Revelation 20:11-15).

Sorry, but apart from that, I don't have any stories to tell or any fabrications to make up. But, one thing I do know, I am getting some really good stuff here for writing a Scifi-Fantasy.

In your unbelief and your ignorance you do not realize this, of course - but what you are saying that you are not sorry for, is calling the teaching of Christ and of His apostles "stories and fabrications", and what is written in scripture, "sci-fi fantasy"

- and in the process you have also implied that you have either never heard the voice of the eternal Spirit or the false doctrine you heard has completely blinded you and made you deaf to His voice.

 

[Zao is life]

To sum up your lengthy discourse, the soul is the mind (brain) of "the natural man", which apart from Christ, is not eternal or immortal at all, and shall rot in the grave (hell) along with all the other organs and the body.

By the way, when the lungs cease to
breathe "the breath of life" aka. Oxygenated air, the first organ to fail is "the soul" aka the mind/brain, whereby the permanent state of unconsciousness sets in, and then finally mortal death of the whole body.
"Nothing eternal or immortal to see here folks". Lol.

Figure it out: "the life of the flesh IS IN the BLOOD"

Replied to you in Post #82.

I have prayed to God to open your ears and eyes, that you be enabled to hear the voice of the eternal Spirit in the Word of God which has been written - because according to your words, His voice and His Word is all just a lengthy discourse for you.

 

[Earburner]

Back to God.
Everything that is,is of God.

The breath of life, being Oxygenated air, exists in and from the atmosphere.
When a mortal soul/mind dies, the breath of life is exhaled back into the atmosphere from whence it came.
And of course, yes God created the "gaseous elements" of the atmosphere.

Sorry for all the details, but I thought that everyone would like to know the details, instead of generalizing everything.

 

[Earburner]

Replied to you in Post #82.

I have prayed to God to open your ears and eyes, that you be enabled to hear the voice of the eternal Spirit in the Word of God which has been written - because according to your words, His voice and His Word is all just a lengthy discourse for you.

I see that what God said in the first part of Leviticus 17:11, you still can't "figure it out" yet!! (my post #81).
It's very, very simple, but religious church-ianity loves to confuse everything, and therefore everyone thinks and believes that all answers MUST BE religious in nature.
Too bad, your loss.

By the way I am not JW. But this you should know, for it will help YOU immensely:

"ALL the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."

"On every biblical topic, there can always be more than one lie, but there never can be more than one truth".

 

[Earburner]

Now I see where you are coming from. My memory served me wrongly when I remembered your handle and had you in the Preterist camp. No Preterist would say the things you say. It's straight out of the JW textbook:



You have to throw away most of the New Testament to believe what you say above.

The Old Testament's teaching together with the New Testament's teaching:

THE SPIRIT

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

God, who is a spirit, alone possesses eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself, and this life is in the Word (John 1:4), and given to the Son of man to possess in Himself (John 5:26).

"The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456], but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born [gennáō] of the Spirit." (John 3:8).

"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh (body) is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must all be born from above.'" (John 3:6-7).

The one who hears the voice of Jesus hears the voice of what is spirit: "Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456],.."

The Son of man died, bodily - but possessed eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself - so by the eternal spirit His dead body was quickened (made alive again) and was raised from the dead

- and He is now bodily alive [zao] forever - the the ages of the ages - (immortal) (Revelation 1:18)

- and because of the bodily death of the Son of man for our sin and His bodily resurrection from the dead, and because eternal life [zoe aionios] has been given in Christ (1 John 5:11-12) to those who believe in Him (to those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, and been born of Him), those who are in Him when they die bodily,

will also rise from the dead bodily upon His return and live [zao] forever (be immortal), having been given eternal life (eternal spirit) IN HIM.

Since Christ there have been two groups of the seed of Adam:

1. Those who heard the voice of the eternal spirit (the Word of God) and refused to believe (John 3:18-21); and

2. Those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, believed in Him, and IN HIM (Christ) have been given eternal life (eternal spirit) (1 John 5:11-12), having been born of the eternal spirit (John 3:6-7).

The first group will rise from the dead upon the return of Christ (Daniel 12:2; Acts 24:15; John 5:26-29; Matthew 25:31-33, 41 & 46), but having not the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, their names will not be found written in the Lamb's Book of Life - and they will die a second death - which is the lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 11:17-19; Revelation 20:11-15).

The second group will also rise from the dead upon the return of Christ having the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, and they will continue to live [zao] forever (be immortal).

THE SOUL

Acts 2:27 & 31 tell us that the soul of the Son of man went to hades when He died, where by the eternal spirit He preached to imprisoned spirits in hades.

- the Son of man represents all mankind and where His soul went to when He died is the same place all souls go to - THAT'S WHY HIS SOUL WENT THERE on behalf of ALL mankind - because He (the Son of God) is THE SON OF MAN.

The New Testament teaches that until the resurrection of the body from the dead, the body dies but the soul - which the New Testament speaks of as the mind, the life and the soul of the flesh

- goes either to be with Christ until the resurrection of the body, or to hades:

Acts 2:31; 2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24; Revelation 6:9; Luke 16:22-23; Revelation 20:13; Revelation 1:18.

The New Testament also teaches that Christ died and rose again bodily in order that He might be Lord both of the dead and of those who are alive (Romans 14:7-9)

- which - were there no such thing as a soul that continues after death - would make such a statement about Christ's Lordship over the dead meaningless and absurd to even mention

- and in the same passage Paul also says that those who die bodily but in Christ belong to the Lord - which would also be meaningless and an absurd statement to make if there were no form of life or existence following the death of the body (as you assert)

- but Paul also teaches without any ambiguity that those who die bodily but in Christ will be with Christ when we die (2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24) - again meaningless and absurd statements to make, were there no soul to be with Christ after bodily death.

There would also be no dead to be delivered from hades for the resurrection of the body at the time of the return of Christ were there no souls in hades (Revelation 20:11-15).



In your unbelief and your ignorance you do not realize this, of course - but what you are saying that you are not sorry for, is calling the teaching of Christ and of His apostles "stories and fabrications", and what is written in scripture, "sci-fi fantasy"

- and in the process you have also implied that you have either never heard the voice of the eternal Spirit or the false doctrine you heard has completely blinded you and made you deaf to His voice.

Again your religiosity is in your own way!
Honestly, just because I must speak to your religious mind (which by the way is NOT the mind of Christ), you think that I am not a born again Christian, having not the mind of Christ?? Lol.

Because you and many others are misled by the religious fabrications by Religion about what a soul is, I expect that my thoughts and voice about it SOUNDS to you as being unbiblical!! I am simply challenging what religious church-ianity has fabricated and planted inside you, of which you swallow hook line and sinker. And because of that, I am the bad guy, because I don't speak your voice of "religious speak"??

When you can understand what 1 Cor. ch. 2 is saying, then you will know the difference between the mind of the natural man, the mind of the religious man and the mind of Christ.

I am a born again Christian. The Lord spoke to me in a vision concerning the book of 2 Timothy. At that time in my life, I didn't know what 2 Timothy was. After reading and studying, I learned that I had to repent towards God through faith in Jesus, and become born again by being baptized by God's Holy Spirit. John 3:3-8, John 14:23; Rev. 3:20. I personally witnessed His infilling of me by His Holy Spirit.

For 50+ years I have been in numerous Christian denominations. I know Christ personally, and I also know the entrapments and fear tactics of religious church-ianity.

The false doctrine, that God has given man an Immortal Eternal living soul, is the worst of them all.
Until You understand that "the breath of life" is ONLY Oxygenated air, you will be in their whirlwind of always linking up scripture and viewing it through their LIE, of which only fosters more LIES.

 

[Earburner]

There would also be no dead to be delivered from hades for the resurrection of the body at the time of the return of Christ were there no souls in hades (Revelation 20:11-15).

Hades is nothing more than the physical grave. If you must know who it was that Christ visited during the three days of his mortal death, then surely you do know that NONE of the faithful of OC Israel had ever been given the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore Malachi 3:16 explains who they were, and why the repentant thief on the cross said "remember me".

So now you have to look at who and when they were, that were "under the altar" and that it could very well be those who were the symbolic 144,000 of OC Israel. Yes, I did say OC!!
We can see them in Rev. 6:9-11 receiving their white robe, of which is symbolic of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

Now I see where you are coming from. My memory served me wrongly when I remembered your handle and had you in the Preterist camp. No Preterist would say the things you say. It's straight out of the JW textbook:



You have to throw away most of the New Testament to believe what you say above.

The Old Testament's teaching together with the New Testament's teaching:

THE SPIRIT

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

God, who is a spirit, alone possesses eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself, and this life is in the Word (John 1:4), and given to the Son of man to possess in Himself (John 5:26).

"The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456], but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born [gennáō] of the Spirit." (John 3:8).

"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh (body) is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must all be born from above.'" (John 3:6-7).

The one who hears the voice of Jesus hears the voice of what is spirit: "Jesus said:"The Spirit [pneuma - G4151] breathes [pneo - G4154] where He desires, and you hear His voice [phone - G5456],.."

The Son of man died, bodily - but possessed eternal life [zoe aionios] in Himself - so by the eternal spirit His dead body was quickened (made alive again) and was raised from the dead

- and He is now bodily alive [zao] forever - the the ages of the ages - (immortal) (Revelation 1:18)

- and because of the bodily death of the Son of man for our sin and His bodily resurrection from the dead, and because eternal life [zoe aionios] has been given in Christ (1 John 5:11-12) to those who believe in Him (to those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, and been born of Him), those who are in Him when they die bodily,

will also rise from the dead bodily upon His return and live [zao] forever (be immortal), having been given eternal life (eternal spirit) IN HIM.

Since Christ there have been two groups of the seed of Adam:

1. Those who heard the voice of the eternal spirit (the Word of God) and refused to believe (John 3:18-21); and

2. Those who have heard the voice of the eternal spirit, believed in Him, and IN HIM (Christ) have been given eternal life (eternal spirit) (1 John 5:11-12), having been born of the eternal spirit (John 3:6-7).

The first group will rise from the dead upon the return of Christ (Daniel 12:2; Acts 24:15; John 5:26-29; Matthew 25:31-33, 41 & 46), but having not the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, their names will not be found written in the Lamb's Book of Life - and they will die a second death - which is the lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 11:17-19; Revelation 20:11-15).

The second group will also rise from the dead upon the return of Christ having the life of the eternal spirit in Christ given to them, and they will continue to live [zao] forever (be immortal).

THE SOUL

Acts 2:27 & 31 tell us that the soul of the Son of man went to hades when He died, where by the eternal spirit He preached to imprisoned spirits in hades.

- the Son of man represents all mankind and where His soul went to when He died is the same place all souls go to - THAT'S WHY HIS SOUL WENT THERE on behalf of ALL mankind - because He (the Son of God) is THE SON OF MAN.

The New Testament teaches that until the resurrection of the body from the dead, the body dies but the soul - which the New Testament speaks of as the mind, the life and the soul of the flesh

- goes either to be with Christ until the resurrection of the body, or to hades:

Acts 2:31; 2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24; Revelation 6:9; Luke 16:22-23; Revelation 20:13; Revelation 1:18.

The New Testament also teaches that Christ died and rose again bodily in order that He might be Lord both of the dead and of those who are alive (Romans 14:7-9)

- which - were there no such thing as a soul that continues after death - would make such a statement about Christ's Lordship over the dead meaningless and absurd to even mention

- and in the same passage Paul also says that those who die bodily but in Christ belong to the Lord - which would also be meaningless and an absurd statement to make if there were no form of life or existence following the death of the body (as you assert)

- but Paul also teaches without any ambiguity that those who die bodily but in Christ will be with Christ when we die (2 Corinthians 5:5-9; Philippians 1:20-24) - again meaningless and absurd statements to make, were there no soul to be with Christ after bodily death.

There would also be no dead to be delivered from hades for the resurrection of the body at the time of the return of Christ were there no souls in hades (Revelation 20:11-15).



In your unbelief and your ignorance you do not realize this, of course - but what you are saying that you are not sorry for, is calling the teaching of Christ and of His apostles "stories and fabrications", and what is written in scripture, "sci-fi fantasy"

- and in the process you have also implied that you have either never heard the voice of the eternal Spirit or the false doctrine you heard has completely blinded you and made you deaf to His voice.

You really do misunderstand me and the mind of Christ within me, of which by His Holy Spirit, He and His Father permanently dwell within me/my mortal mind/brain of flesh, aka "the natural man", an "earthen vessel" (2 Cor. 4:7) who breathes Oxygenated air. John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

Please get a grip on HIS reality, and not that which all of church-ianity falsely produce, teach and preach, including the JWs.

Do you not see what you all are trying to do to me? You are trying to fit me into a religious mind set of being a Preterist or a JW, etc. Lol...I am not a religious person in any way. I am simply a born again Christian, who allows the Lord Jesus to work in and through me, according to His will.

Please hear this: Jesus was not and is not a "religious" man. He was God the Son in the flesh. He was not of the Pharisees, the Sadducees or any other Jewish religious "denomination" of that time, or this time!!
I previously posted this quote for that reason:
"ALL the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."

Do YOU understand KJV 1 Cor. ch. 2 yet?? Specifically: 1 Cor. 2:5
"That YOUR faith should NOT stand [be supported] in the [fleshly religious] wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power [mind/Spirit] of God".

 

[rwb]

To sum up your lengthy discourse, the soul is the mind (brain) of "the natural man", which apart from Christ, is not eternal or immortal at all, and shall rot in the grave (hell) along with all the other organs and the body.

The way the mind of mankind was made to function is through the breath of life (spirit) breathed into him. It took both the body + God's breath of life (spirit) for mankind to become a "living soul." When the body dies, without the Spirit of God to continue to give it life, yes there is only a corpse. But when the body dies who before death is indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God, the spirit of faithful man returns to God ALIVE (living soul) and is in heaven a spiritual body as are the angels of God in heaven, without human form. That's how John is able to see souls alive in heaven AFTER the people they were had been martyred for their faith. Because death of the body cannot keep the one who has been born again from being with the Lord after death, because God clearly tells us that DEATH cannot separate believers from the love of God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Mark 12:24-27 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:17-19 (KJV) And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1 John 5:13 (KJV) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This simple truth have I learned about the scriptures and denominationalism:
"ALL of the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."

I'm not part of any denomination, so you really need to stop wasting your time with your strawman arguments.

I think that Rev. 14:9 is the key verse whereby the Holy Spirit can specifically reveal the truth, of which is witnessed to and verified in 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the [literal] presence of the holy angels and in the [literal] presence of the Lamb
[during the 24 hr. Day of Jesus' Glorious, literal and visible return from Heaven in [fiery] flaming fire].

11 And the SMOKE OF of their torment [burning up of their flesh] ascends forever and ever [Carbon atoms leaving earth's atmosphere, of which are never destroyed]; and they have no rest day or night [the period of 24 hours of Jesus physical presence from Heaven], who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Having no rest day or night does not just apply to a 24 hour time period. It's forever. That implies that they are conscious forever. Your arguments are not even slightly convincing. The meaning of Revelation 14:9-11 is the same as the following verse in terms of determining the duration of the torment.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The torment lasts "for ever and ever" with no rest day or night.

By the way, did you know that when Lot left Sodom in the morning, he traveled all night and reached Zoar in the next morning, of which was a period of 24 hours. In the context of those scriptures, during the same morning, Abraham arose from sleep and witnessed the burning smoke of Sodom afar off. A witness that it was 24 hours!
About Lot and Jesus' return, I think Luke 17:26-30 sums it up perfectly!

That passage is talking about physical destruction and is not something we should compare to what happens to people at the judgment when everyone stands before Christ to give an account of themselves, after which they are sent to their eternal destinies.

 

[rwb]

Hades is nothing more than the physical grave. If you must know who it was that Christ visited during the three days of his mortal death, then surely you do know that NONE of the faithful of OC Israel had ever been given the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore Malachi 3:16 explains who they were, and why the repentant thief on the cross said "remember me".

So now you have to look at who and when they were, that were "under the altar" and that it could very well be those who were the symbolic 144,000 of OC Israel. Yes, I did say OC!!
We can see them in Rev. 6:9-11 receiving their white robe, of which is symbolic of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe before Christ came the spirit (breath of life) in them returned to God after the body died? Why does Christ after His coming speak of death as it was before He came, speaking the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, where He says only the rich man went into the grave, but Lazarus was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom? What's the reason for Him to differentiate between the places for the dead in unbelief and places for the dead in faith? After His resurrection when Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth before He ascended to heaven, who was of the captivity that He set free, taking them with Him to heaven?

 

[rwb]

You really do misunderstand me and the mind of Christ within me, of which by His Holy Spirit, He and His Father permanently dwell within me/my mortal mind/brain of flesh, aka "the natural man", an "earthen vessel" (2 Cor. 4:7) who breathes Oxygenated air. John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

Do you believe man ceases to be "natural man" when they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit?

 

[rwb]

However, from my understanding,

This is why much of what you believe regarding the spirit and soul of which mankind are is so convoluted and that you must rely on what man (science) has said instead of believing what God has said!

 

[Zao is life]

I am not a religious person in any way.

I don't have time for religiosity, nor what you call "Churchianity" - and the only practices I deem necessary are a once-off baptism and a non-corrupted communion. I do believe that believers should gather together as often as possible during the course of each month.

But you do have a religiosity and "Churchianity" which is betrayed by the fact that the words "religiosity" and "Churchianity" keep coming out of your mouth when you're pointing that finger at someone else. It's in the forefront of your mind.

That's why I just brush it aside every time you say I have the mindset that your own words betray you having.

I am simply a born again Christian

The credit for that - and for any and each one of us who are born again - goes to Christ alone and to God His Father.

, who allows the Lord Jesus to work in and through me, according to His will.

You're showing by your own assertion above that in your hubris you believe that you "allow the Lord to work in and through you" with regard to doctrine - because some of the things you say are false and not of God, the Word of God / Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Please hear this: Jesus was not and is not a "religious" man. He was God the Son in the flesh.

You keep doing the same thing. I hope for your sake that one day the Lord will humble you - because you are a religious man who like the Pharisees, takes pride in your own "correctness" regarding your own interpretations of the Word of God.

Your own words - used repeatedly to imply that the 'faults' you are talking about, are pointing at the one who you are talking to (just because he may be telling you what you are saying is false and not according to the Word of God)

- is the finger of religious pride and religiosity that the Pharisees used against Jesus - you would be accusing the apostles of Christ of the same things - just because the things they said and wrote exposes your own error.

 

[Earburner]

Do you believe man ceases to be "natural man" when they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit?

Absolutely not.
Immortality does not take place for any of us, until the Day when Jesus returns in flaming fire. KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.
However, in the moment we became born again by God's Holy Spirit, we were Gifted with Eternal Life, of which prior to that, none of us ever had eternal existence of any kind.
KJV 1 John 5:11-13.

 

[Earburner]

I don't have time for religiosity, nor what you call "Churchianity" - and the only practices I deem necessary are a once-off baptism and a non-corrupted communion. I do believe that believers should gather together as often as possible during the course of each month.

But you do have a religiosity and "Churchianity" which is betrayed by the fact that the words "religiosity" and "Churchianity" keep coming out of your mouth when you're pointing that finger at someone else. It's in the forefront of your mind.

That's why I just brush it aside every time you say I have the mindset that your own words betray you having.



The credit for that - and for any and each one of us who are born again - goes to Christ alone and to God His Father.



You're showing by your own assertion above that in your hubris you believe that you "allow the Lord to work in and through you" with regard to doctrine - because some of the things you say are false and not of God, the Word of God / Christ or the Holy Spirit.



You keep doing the same thing. I hope for your sake that one day the Lord will humble you - because you are a religious man who like the Pharisees, takes pride in your own "correctness" regarding your own interpretations of the Word of God.

Your own words - used repeatedly to imply that the 'faults' you are talking about, are pointing at the one who you are talking to (just because he may be telling you what you are saying is false and not according to the Word of God)

- is the finger of religious pride and religiosity that the Pharisees used against Jesus - you would be accusing the apostles of Christ of the same things - just because the things they said and wrote exposes your own error.

Again, I repeat....
please read, study and digest all of 1 Cor. ch. 2 through the mind of Christ, that is within you.
Tap into His Mind, and stay clear of the indoctrinated book learning by "the wisdom of men" at your local church, or any church.

When I write to anyone in a public setting, I understand that there are many onlookers that read what is said, but choose not to comment. So please don't think that I am speaking to only you.

 

[rwb]

Absolutely not.
Immortality does not take place for any of us, until the Day when Jesus returns in flaming fire. KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.
However, in the moment we became born again by God's Holy Spirit, we were Gifted with Eternal Life, of which prior to that, none of us ever had eternal existence of any kind.
KJV 1 John 5:11-13.

This is what I've been saying all along!

What appears to have you baffled is how in the beginning when God created humankind (Adam), it was "very good", because before man disobeyed God man was created with eternal breath of life (spirit) and a body that became destined to death only AFTER they disobeyed God. Why would you assume the body God created "very good" did not have the ability to live forever (immortal) until man introduced sin, and death through sin into creation?

Genesis 1:31 (KJV) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Because mankind the moment they disobeyed God became physically mortal in the same natural sense the animals without being living souls were created. If this were not TRUE, why must man be born again to both know and enter the Kingdom of God and obtain eternal life before death, and then immortal body when Christ comes again?

 

[Earburner]

You're showing by your own assertion above that in your hubris you believe that you "allow the Lord to work in and through you" with regard to doctrine - because some of the things you say are false and not of God, the Word of God / Christ or the Holy Spirit.

The fact that you respond to my personal walk in and with the Lord as being off course with biblical doctrine, my first question is by whose standard? Christ Himself, or the interptetation from that of a particular doctrine of church-ianity, aka "the wisdom of men"?

My second question is: have you studied 1 Cor. ch. 2 thoroughly yet?
If you did, then by the Lord's Grace, you wouldn't be speaking to me in the way that you do, for as with Paul, I CAN SAY that I do have the mind of Christ, and not that which is the religious words from "the wisdom of men".

 

[Earburner]

This is what I've been saying all along!

Maybe we are getting somewhere in truth here.

What appears to have you baffled is how in the beginning when God created humankind (Adam), it was "very good", because before man disobeyed God man was created with eternal breath of life (spirit) and a body that became destined to death only AFTER they disobeyed God. Why would you assume the body God created "very good" did not have the ability to live forever (immortal) until man introduced sin, and death through sin into creation?

I am not baffled! But many are forgetful that A&E were created by God having innocence, which is having NO knowledge of good or evil whatsoever.
When Jesus implied that he was not good, he was saying only that he was dwelling in that of an innocent mind.
Being the last Adam, Jesus came to us being that of the Innocent Lamb of God. Mat. 19:17

Genesis 1:31 (KJV) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Because mankind the moment they disobeyed God became physically mortal in the same natural sense the animals without being living souls were created. If this were not TRUE, why must man be born again to both know and enter the Kingdom of God and obtain eternal life before death, and then immortal body when Christ comes again?

First and foremost Adam and Eve were ALWAYS MORTAL. They NEVER ate from "The Tree of Life".... who was Jesus in His Eternal state.

 Secondly, after A&E had partaken of the "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil", they were booted out of the garden, and were barred from the Garden so that they could NOT eat of the "Tree of Life" and then live forever (have eternal life).

Having now partaken of the ToG&E, they had LOST their Innocense of mind, God could not allow them to Live Forever in the condition of being void of innocence, having only the knowledge of both good and evil.

 

[Zao is life]

The fact that you respond to my personal walk in and with the Lord as being off course with biblical doctrine, my first question is by whose standard? Christ Himself, or the interptetation from that of a particular doctrine of church-ianity, aka "the wisdom of men"?

My second question is: have you studied 1 Cor. ch. 2 thoroughly yet?
If you did, then by the Lord's Grace, you wouldn't be speaking to me in the way that you do, for as with Paul, I CAN SAY that I do have the mind of Christ, and not that which is the religious words from "the wisdom of men".

1 Corinthians 2
1 When I came to you, brothers and sisters, I did not come with superior eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed the testimony of God.
2 For I decided to be concerned about nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

There's a lot more in the doctrinal assertions you make than the above words while you repeatedly assert that those are "affected by religiosity and churchianity" (the doctrines and traditions of men?) who dare to tell you that some of the things you say are not biblical.

You began the practice of telling me what's "wrong" with those who disagree with some of the things you say because they are not biblical.

But you are obviously (evidently) looking in a mirror at yourself.

May I remind you once more that the Bible and the Holy Spirit Christ gave us to understand the words of God are our authority - not you - and then be done with this conversation.