When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?

[St. SteVen]

The Star.....a band of angels? It clearly must be in closer proximity to earth to get a precise visual fix than other heavenly bodies.
Is it even those self same band of angels that appeared and sang to the shepherds?

That's interesting.
It seems that what was been called a "star" was a light in the sky.
But closer to earth so that it could be followed.

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe the North Pole?

Or Rudolph's nose? - LOL

 

[quietthinker]

That's interesting.
It seems that what was been called a "star" was a light in the sky.
But closer to earth so that it could be followed.

Do we dare stretch the idea, 'light in the sky'?

'The people who live in darkness have seen a great light, and for those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned'
Matthew 4:16
or
'I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star' Revelation 22:16

Without our awareness and focus on THE Star, do we wander aimlessly in the East?

 

[Nancy]

No contradiction at all. Luke is talking about Jesus at the age of 8 days. In the Matthew passage concerning the wise men's visit, Jesus was anything up to 2 years old. That's why Herod commanded all the boys 2 years old and under in Bethlehem and the surrounding district to be killed.

Agreed 100%. Simple math it seems.

 

[quietthinker]

Agreed 100%. Simple math it seems.

Ahhhh, the math!
Joining the dots well is a worthy pursuit.

 

[Nancy]

There's a lot that we are not told. It's when we start filling in the gaps (which involves making assumptions) that we start to disagree.

There were no birth registers in those days. So when Herod ordered all boys under the age of two years to be killed, I assume that he was including a large margin of error. My estimate is that Jesus was somewhere between a year and 18 months old by that point.

It really isn't difficult to put the facts together coherently, and there are a number of plausible solutions. I would suggest that Joseph was originally from Bethlehem but had headed north to find work (he was a carpenter/builder, and there were lots of building projects going on in and around Galilee at the time). He settled in Nazareth, met and married Mary there. Having uprooted themselves once for the census, and now having a small baby on their hands, it was probably easier for them to stay in Bethlehem than go back to Nazareth - and the stigma surrounding Jesus' supposed illegitimacy, which everyone in Nazareth would have known about, would have been an additional disincentive. So when the magi turned up, they were still in Bethlehem. Luke simply omits this part of the story (and their temporary exile in Egypt), and moves seamlessly from the presentation in the Temple to the family's return to Nazareth.

I guess the "math" sometimes does not add up. Thank you for your post! I did not even consider the wide margin... :)

 

[Wick Stick]

Thanks for your post.
I have always been curious about how one could follow a star to an exact location.

So, an astrology lesson, then?

The NT word translated star (ἀστήρ = aster) properly denotes the planet Venus, rather than an actual star. While we're at it, "wandering stars" are πλανήτης (planetes), which you might recognize in modern English as Planets. Not every star is a star.

 

[David Lamb]

According to the Infancy Gospel of James (yes, yes, not a canonical book), the Magi found Jesus while He was still at Bethlehem:

21. And, behold, Joseph was ready to go into Judaea. And there was a great commotion in Bethlehem of Judaea, for Magi came, saying: Where is he that is born king of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and have come to worship him. And when Herod heard, he was much disturbed, and sent officers to the Magi. And he sent for the priests, and examined them, saying: How is it written about the Christ? where is He to be born? And they said: In Bethlehem of Judaea, for so it is written. And he sent them away. And he examined the Magi, saying to them: What sign have you seen in reference to the king that has been born? And the Magi said: We have seen a star of great size shining among these stars, and obscuring their light, so that the stars did not appear; and we thus knew that a king has been born to Israel, and we have come to worship him. And Herod said: Go and seek him; and if you find him, let me know, in order that I also may go and worship him. And the Magi went out. And, behold, the star which they had seen in the east went before them until they came to the cave, and it stood over the top of the cave. And the Magi saw the infant with His mother Mary; and they brought forth from their bag gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And having been warned by the angel not to go into Judaea, they went into their own country by another road.

Infancy Gospel of James, or Protevangelium (Roberts-Donaldson translation)

We don't need to look at a non-canonical book to show that the wise men found Jesus at Bethlehem, because Matthew makes it clear:

“Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.’” Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.”” (Mt 2:1-8 NKJV)

 

[Wick Stick]

We don't need to look at a non-canonical book to show that the wise men found Jesus at Bethlehem, because Matthew makes it clear:

“Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.’” Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.”” (Mt 2:1-8 NKJV)

This says Herod inquired of the priests and scribes, who told him to look in Bethlehem, per the book of Micah.

It does not say that Herod directed the Magi there, nor that they found him there.

 

[Jay Ross]

Attached is my understanding of how the story of Christ's birth and early life unfolded. It is a PDF file that you can open and read for yourself. The chronology of the events does not adhere to the tradition that has become the "accepted story" of Christ's birth.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?​

Yes, but when, you ask.
Has it been considered that Egypt is another metaphor just as Babylon or Sodom are? A metaphor for the oppressive systems of this World, ie it's Kingdoms

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

[St. SteVen]

When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?​

Yes, but when, you ask.
Has it been considered that Egypt is another metaphor just as Babylon or Sodom are? A metaphor for the oppressive systems of this World, ie it's Kingdoms

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

More likely a reference to Moses?
Messiah would be a prophet like Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:15 NIV
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you,
from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

Acts 3:22
For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me
from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

Acts 7:37
“This is the Moses who told the Israelites,
‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your own people.’

 

[Wick Stick]

When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?​

Yes, but when, you ask.
Has it been considered that Egypt is another metaphor just as Babylon or Sodom are? A metaphor for the oppressive systems of this World, ie it's Kingdoms

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Once you've examined it, you ought to discard it. All the New Testament treats it as literal

 

[quietthinker]

Once you've examined it, you ought to discard it. All the New Testament treats it as literal

Literal? Egypt and Sodom at the same time?....and crucified there......nahhhhh, definitely metaphor!

 

[David Lamb]

This says Herod inquired of the priests and scribes, who told him to look in Bethlehem, per the book of Micah.

It does not say that Herod directed the Magi there, nor that they found him there.

It does:

And he (Herod) sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.””

Further on in the chapter we read:

“Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying: “A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, Refusing to be comforted, Because they are no more.””

“But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead.” Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea (where Bethlehem was) instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”” (Mt 2:16-23 NKJV)

 

[shepherdsword]

One theory is that Regulas in the constellation of Leo came into conjunction with Jupiter in 3-2BC. I am not sure about that due to the apparent precision the star had in pointing out the location of Jesus.

 

[Wick Stick]

Literal? Egypt and Sodom at the same time?....and crucified there......nahhhhh, definitely metaphor!

Not that verse. The ones in Matthew 2.

 

[Wick Stick]

One theory is that Regulas in the constellation of Leo came into conjunction with Jupiter in 3-2BC. I am not sure about that due to the apparent precision the star had in pointing out the location of Jesus.

Makes sense. Jupiter was the symbol of kingship. Leo (the lion) is the symbol of Judah.

 

[quietthinker]

Not that verse. The ones in Matthew 2.

What do you make of Revelation 11:8.....how are we to understand it?

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

[Wick Stick]

What do you make of Revelation 11:8.....how are we to understand it?

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 11:8 is speaking of Jerusalem. There are several places in the New Testament where cities are called by the names of other cities.

Matthew 2 isn't one of those. It's clear from the rest of the New Testament, and from the writings of the early church, that they believed Jesus went to Egypt, in the literal sense.