A SURVEY OF DISPENSATIONALISM

[New Testament Christian]

Jesus can be our mediator without having to be a priest

Not according to the Bible,
Hebrews 7:25,26
- wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He liveth to make intercession(mediator) for them for such a high priest became us, who is holy harmless undefiled separate from sinners and made higher than the heavens

 

[Doug]

The new covenant is Jesus' will and new testament as the Greek translators of the new testament make clear to us.

Christ shed His blood to establish His new testament.
Everyone is saved under the new testament not the old.
Matthew 26:28,
- for this is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins

Yes
A testament expresses the will of the testator upon death
Jesus's will was for his blood to forgive the sins of Israel committed under the first testament
Paul revealed his blood was for us as well

 

[Doug]

Not according to the Bible,
Hebrews 7:25,26
- wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He liveth to make intercession(mediator) for them for such a high priest became us, who is holy harmless undefiled separate from sinners and made higher than the heavens

Not sure you can say intercession means mediator. Intercession is to plead for another, but even if granted it only pertains to believing Israel.
Hebrews is written to believing Jews who were being persecuted and being exhorted not to revert back to the Levitical temple sacrifices to escape persecution

 

[saved by grace 101]

The new covenant says who it is made to and its Israel...............[Jeremiah 31:31 KJV] "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

Well its quite natural they were specifically mentioned as they were the only ones in covenant at the time. However, why reject what Paul believed? He believed the law was in gentiles hearts in Acts2:14&15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
He also told the Corinthians the same thing:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

Paul believed gentiles sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more also, alongside knowing they wouldn't be asked to make sacrifices for sin.
It seems I who am not a dispensationalist believe more of what Paul wrote than dispensationalists do.

 

[Titus]

Yes
A testament expresses the will of the testator upon death
Jesus's will was for his blood to forgive the sins of Israel committed under the first testament
Paul revealed his blood was for us as well

The new testament has the power to save all.
The gospel is under the new testament.
Since the new testament is the new covenant your theology must be disregarded as it can be shown to be in conflict with scripture.

Romans 1:16-17,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth to the jew first and also to the greek for therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith, as it is written the just shall live by faith

The just shall live by faith is a quotation from Hababkkuk 2:4,
- behold his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him but the just shall live by faith

There is no other testament that will be given as the new testament is where Jesus saves as that is the testament where He shed His blood.

 

[Titus]

Not sure you can say intercession means mediator. Intercession is to plead for another, but even if granted it only pertains to believing Israel

Hebrews is not written to unbelievers.
You cannot read Hebrews and come to that conclusion.
If you have never read the book you could be mislead into believing your theology.

You are referring to Hebrews 7:25-26,
- wherefore He is able to save them that come unto God by Him seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them,
for such an high priest became  us who is Holy, harmless undefiled seperate from sinners and made higher than the heavens

He became us...

The writer of Hebrews includes himself as the us.
This indicates already belonging not an outsider.

Hebrews repeatedly identifies the audience as HOLY brethren

You cannot be Holy unless you are a regenerate believer.
Its impossible for unbelieving Messiah denying jews to be holy.
If they are holy than all unbelievers who reject Jesus can be called holy.

Only the saved have access to Christs blood,
Hebrews 10:19-22,
- having therefore brethren boldness to enter unto the holiest by the blood of Jesus...
let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith

Unbelievers cannot be Bold.
Have full assurance.
Access to Christs blood.

Not sure you can say intercession means mediator.

Scripture defines mediation by intercession.
1Timothy 2:5-6,
- for we have one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ who gave Himself a ransom for all
Romans 8:34,
- it is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again who also maketh intercession for us

 

[Luther7]

Anyone saying anything negative towards Jews/Israel will be falsely accused of being anti-semitic.
Berean apologetics ministry has already accused me of this.
Lots of dispensationalist's there. This false doctrine really grew like a cancer in the USA.
Since God shows no favoritism towards men, neither will I.
Christians are to love everyone just as Christ loves.
Philippians 2:5,
- let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus

Well Amen to that. I understand why the church is in this predicament. It really is prophetic. I always read that the churches would fall away but never fully understood how it would happen.

Well, Jesus was warning us all along.

So what does God want His people, CHRISTIANS, to do, if all of this is God's will is to be done? The prophecy of a period of great tribulation is the talmudic world order. This means it will be the last event to occur before Jesus Christ comes to usher in a new heavens and earth for all eternity.

I believe that God wants us to compassionately rebuke this false teaching of a " literal" millennial kingdom on this current earth. In doing so, we can at least understand their agenda, and know with confidence that when Jesus comes the second time, it will be the last day OF THIS EARTH. It's not for the benefit of Christians to enter an additional thousand years on this sin- cursed earth when we can ( and will) be with Jesus in His eternal kingdom.

Because believe it or not, the " millennial kingdom" is also taught in Judaism. Except they are not looking for a heavenly Messiah ( who already came). They are looking for their "messiah" to rule with them over the nations of the world, from Jerusalem.

The Christian church has been slowly but steadily indoctrinated by " reputable" sources such as the Scolfield " study" Bible ( a project financed by world bankers around 1909), given out for free and encouraged by pastors to use. This is where the " Biblical " support for the "literal" millennial kingdom teaching really gained momentum.

Every Christian should examine what the 7 Noahide laws ( which are actually a whole set of laws ) are and where the authority of these laws comes from, and how they will be implemented.

Jesus warned us. Let us prepare and protect ourselves with the full armour of God.

 

[Doug]

Since the new testament is the new covenant your theology must be disregarded as it can be shown to be in conflict with scripture.

The new testament and the new covenant arent the same

The new testament was only for Israel.............[Matthew 26:28 KJV] "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."......his blood was shed for many NOT ALL...............[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."..............Jesus died to redeem only the sins Israel committed under the old testament.......................[Hebrews 9:16 KJV] "For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.".............a testament requires the death of the testator to be in force while a covenant doesnt always require death

God' new covenant is made only with Israel..............[Jeremiah 31:31 KJV] "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:".............................[Jeremiah 31:33 KJV] "But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."..............the new covenant will not be in force until AFTER THOSE DAYS which is the tribulation, while the new testament went into effect after Christ;s death

Paul never says we get the new covenant

 

[Titus]

The new testament was only for Israel.............[Matthew 26:28 KJV] "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."......his blood was shed for many NOT ALL

Luke 22:20, Matthew 26:28
- this cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you
- for this is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Matthew 26:28 and Luke 22:20 are parallel accounts of the same event!!!
The institution of the Lords supper on the night Jesus was betrayed.

1Timothy 2:6,
- who gave Himself a ransom for all...

Hebrews 2:9,
- that He by the grace of God should taste death for everyone

Since Jesus is being quoted in Luke 22:20 and Jesus being quoted again at the same event in Matthew 26:28.
The Gospel writers prove that the new covenant and new testament are in fact interchangeable.
They equate!!!

 

[Doug]

Luke 22:20, Matthew 26:28
- this cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you
- for this is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Matthew 26:28 and Luke 22:20 are parallel accounts of the same event!!!
The institution of the Lords supper on the night Jesus was betrayed.

1Timothy 2:6,
- who gave Himself a ransom for all...

Hebrews 2:9,
- that He by the grace of God should taste death for everyone

Since Jesus is being quoted in Luke 22:20 and Jesus being quoted again at the same event in Matthew 26:28.
The Gospel writers prove that the new covenant and new testament are in fact interchangeable.
They equate!!!

[Luke 22:20 KJV] "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."
KJV doesnt say new covenant. They arent translating incorrectly as do other translations

 

[Titus]

[Luke 22:20 KJV] "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."
KJV doesnt say new covenant. They arent translating incorrectly as do other translations

Matthew 26:28 and Luke 22:20 are preserved by God in Koine Greek.
There is no diferent words used.
The new testament and new covenant is the same Greek word.
There is no mistranslation of this word using either because they are the same.

 

[Doug]

Matthew 26:28 and Luke 22:20 are preserved by God in Koine Greek.
There is no diferent words used.
The new testament and new covenant is the same Greek word.
There is no mistranslation of this word using either because they are the same.

The same Greek word translated as testament or covenant depending on context
[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
Hebrews properly identifies it as testament. A testament required the death of the testator

 

[Doug]

Matthew 26:28 and Luke 22:20 are preserved by God in Koine Greek.
There is no diferent words used.
The new testament and new covenant is the same Greek word.
There is no mistranslation of this word using either because they are the same.

If they are the same word then why does KJV and Webster not translate as new covenant?

 

[Titus]

If they are the same word then why does KJV and Webster not translate as new covenant?

Interchagable because they are the same thing.
Luke 22:20 and Matthew 26:28 is the new testament, new covenant.
Matthew 26:28,
- for this is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins KJV
- for this is My blood of the new covenant which is shed for many for the remission of sins NKJV
- for this is My blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the remission of sins Amharic Bible

The last quote is the Ethiopian Bible that pre-dates the KJV.
The Ethiopian Church has used a Bible in Ge'ez (its ancient liturgical language) since at least the 4th-5th centuries AD
Long before printing press was invented.
These earliest copies where hand copied manuscripts.
The manuscripts are the authentic God preserved Masoretic text and also the Septuagint and the new testament Greek manuscripts were used for the new testament.

You are arguing against the preserved manuscripts in Koine Greek.
If you are unaware, the new testament was orginally written in Koine Greek.

 

[Doug]

Interchagable because they are the same thing.
Luke 22:20 and Matthew 26:28 is the new testament, new covenant.
Matthew 26:28,
- for this is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins KJV
- for this is My blood of the new covenant which is shed for many for the remission of sins NKJV
- for this is My blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the remission of sins Amharic Bible

The last quote is the Ethiopian Bible that pre-dates the KJV.
The Ethiopian Church has used a Bible in Ge'ez (its ancient liturgical language) since at least the 4th-5th centuries AD
Long before printing press was invented.
These earliest copies where hand copied manuscripts.
The manuscripts are the authentic God preserved Masoretic text and also the Septuagint and the new testament Greek manuscripts were used for the new testament.

You are arguing against the preserved manuscripts in Koine Greek.
If you are unaware, the new testament was orginally written in Koine Greek.

You still havent answered why the KJV and Webster translated the verse as new testament. Why do all these other translators say it is new covenant and not new testament. Why is new covenant right and new testament wrong? I would like your opinion

 

[Titus]

You still havent answered why the KJV and Webster translated the verse as new testament. Why do all these other translators say it is new covenant and not new testament. Why is new covenant right and new testament wrong? I would like your opinion

Are you KJV only?
The reason is the English language of its time.

Do you know why God preserved the new testament in koine greek?
Its brilliant and is more evidence for why the Bible is God breathed not a made up fairy tale.

Koine Greek is a dead language.
That's significant. God intentionally used a dead language to preserve His holy word.
Dead languages dont change over time. The meaning of words change in languages that are still used.
So by preserving Gods word in Koine Greek no one can say a specific Greek word means something that would be used today than at the time the writers of the new testament used that word.
Living languages evole. Dead languages stay the same.
Words shift meaning.
Grammar changes.
Cultural usage drifts.
Gay used to mean happy, joyful. Not in American language today.

Koine Greek means what it means and will never change!!!

So English Bibles change because the english language changes.
During the 1600's testament was the common english word for covenant.
It's that simple.

Today more modern english translations use covenant because that is in more use.

The only way to understand Gods word is to define word meaning by the language God chose to preserve it in.
So when doctrines claim new covenant and new testament are separate things.
You must always ask yourself. "Did the apostles and non-apostles like Luke, Mark, Jude the writer of Hebrews understand the new testament as something different from the new covenant? Or is this just ignorant non-Greek speaking modern men confusing, misunderstanding the message".

Remember the English translations are translated from Greek scholars.
Since they use both new covenant and new testament for Matthew 26:28. That is STRONG evidence the Greek language used is the same thing.

I know for a fact any modern doctrine that originated in Europe or America from white men that demands covenants and testaments are something entirely different from each other are defending a theology that they are promoting. We all must defend the doctrine of Jesus Christ not Theologies.

Dispensationalism of what denominations teach today is very new. It can only be traced back to the 1800s.

John Nelson Darby invented the Israel vs church distinction.
This is universally acknowledged in historical theology.
The Scofield Reference Bible is how it got popularized in America.
That Bible brainwashed a huge majority of evangelical "christians" in America.
Note: Since dispensationalism does not teach the true gospel of Jesus Christ no one who has been indoctrinated into this theological system is saved.
Only the true gospel of Jesus Christ has the power to save.

Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for  it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth to the jew first and also to the greek

 

[Doug]

Are you KJV only?
The reason is the English language of its time.

Do you know why God preserved the new testament in koine greek?
Its brilliant and is more evidence for why the Bible is God breathed not a made up fairy tale.

Koine Greek is a dead language.
That's significant. God intentionally used a dead language to preserve His holy word.
Dead languages dont change over time. The meaning of words change in languages that are still used.
So by preserving Gods word in Koine Greek no one can say a specific Greek word means something that would be used today than at the time the writers of the new testament used that word.
Living languages evole. Dead languages stay the same.
Words shift meaning.
Grammar changes.
Cultural usage drifts.
Gay used to mean happy, joyful. Not in American language today.

Koine Greek means what it means and will never change!!!

So English Bibles change because the english language changes.
During the 1600's testament was the common english word for covenant.
It's that simple.

Today more modern english translations use covenant because that is in more use.

The only way to understand Gods word is to define word meaning by the language God chose to preserve it in.
So when doctrines claim new covenant and new testament are separate things.
You must always ask yourself. "Did the apostles and non-apostles like Luke, Mark, Jude the writer of Hebrews understand the new testament as something different from the new covenant? Or is this just ignorant non-Greek speaking modern men confusing, misunderstanding the message".

Remember the English translations are translated from Greek scholars.
Since they use both new covenant and new testament for Matthew 26:28. That is STRONG evidence the Greek language used is the same thing.

I know for a fact any modern doctrine that originated in Europe or America from white men that demands covenants and testaments are something entirely different from each other are defending a theology that they are promoting. We all must defend the doctrine of Jesus Christ not Theologies.

Dispensationalism of what denominations teach today is very new. It can only be traced back to the 1800s.

John Nelson Darby invented the Israel vs church distinction.
This is universally acknowledged in historical theology.
The Scofield Reference Bible is how it got popularized in America.
That Bible brainwashed a huge majority of evangelical "christians" in America.
Note: Since dispensationalism does not teach the true gospel of Jesus Christ no one who has been indoctrinated into this theological system is saved.
Only the true gospel of Jesus Christ has the power to save.

Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for  it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth to the jew first and also to the greek

A lot to unpack here. I will do so piecemeal if you are as inclined to pursue this topic as I am for a little while. I appreciate your courtesy,

 

[Doug]

Are you KJV only?
The reason is the English language of its time.

I am not qualified to go into manuscript evidence and all about Bible translations and the Greek language. I am, however, able to observe the differences in the end results, the translations themselves, and make comparisons to the KJV.
Yes I am KJV.......I find it curious that being KJV only has become under attack (NOT talking about you). Why does KJV have to be rebutted?
My own reasons have been to compare other translations with it and find major discrepancies, such as omissions and alterations that impact our theology.
Bible translation differences go beyond conventional language considerations; they impact our understanding and doctrine.

 

[Doug]

During the 1600's testament was the common english word for covenant.
It's that simple.

How do you know that those translators used testament because they were right in doing so? Maybe they picked the right word.
A testament cant be broken but a covenant can as seen by Israel breaking their covenant. Changing testament to covenant diminishes the death of Christ as the testator who's will forgives the iniquity of Israel and us as well.

 

[Doug]

Since they use both new covenant and new testament for Matthew 26:28. That is STRONG evidence the Greek language used is the same thing.

It doesnt mean the word is the same thing it means they chose how to translate the Greek word which could mean testament or covenant