A recent session I had with Chatgpt pertaining to some of the Discourse

[rwb]

You're not answering my question for some reason. When the disciples asked the question "when shall these things be?" what do you think they were asking and in which verses do you think Jesus answered that question? If you think He was referring to His death and resurrection when speaking of the destruction of the temple buildings, then where do you think He spoke of His death and resurrection in the Olivet Discourse?

The disciples were speaking of the physical temple and city, but Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city. Rather He used the temple and city as an example of the crucifixion. All the things they ask Him when they should be came to pass spiritually not physically when He was crucified.

Then He tells them and every disciple when we understand (see) the AOD is where it should not be, within the body of Christ, they and we should depart from the Church because like the temple of Old became an abomination unto God, so too the Church when abomination that makes desolate is found within it. Just as the True Temple, the body of Christ was martyred, the Light extinguished by those who had become a abomination unto God, so too the Church that allows abomination to continue within will also have the Light of Christ removed from her. If believers don't want to become partakers with abomination within the Church, we need to get out and return to Mt Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[rwb]

As you're aware, there are none who, having looked through the Bible and been enlightened through the Spirit, subscribe to your interpretation.

However, neither the Word of God, nor any who are not Preterits biblically prove the doctrine presented in not truth!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The disciples were speaking of the physical temple and city, but Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city. Rather He used the temple and city as an example of the crucifixion. All the things they ask Him when they should be came to pass spiritually not physically when He was crucified.

Then He tells them and every disciple when we understand (see) the AOD is where it should not be, within the body of Christ, they and we should depart from the Church because like the temple of Old became an abomination unto God, so too the Church when abomination that makes desolate is found within it. Just as the True Temple, the body of Christ was martyred, the Light extinguished by those who had become a abomination unto God, so too the Church that allows abomination to continue within will also have the Light of Christ removed from her. If believers don't want to become partakers with abomination within the Church, we need to get out and return to Mt Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem.

The church is the body of Christ. We should not ever leave the church. The heavenly Jerusalem is the bride of Christ (Rev 21:2,9), which is the church, so I don't know why you are differentiating between the heavenly Jerusalem and the church. Did you get these ideas from TribulationSigns or did you some up with them yourself?

 

[rwb]

The church is the body of Christ. We should not ever leave the church. The heavenly Jerusalem is the bride of Christ (Rev 21:2,9), which is the church, so I don't know why you are differentiating between the heavenly Jerusalem and the church. Did you get these ideas from TribulationSigns or did you some up with them yourself?

The Church, the body of Christ is the heavenly Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, they are not separate entities. The body of Christ, on earth called Church spiritually is the visible representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven, and the bride of Christ is the unseen spiritual heavenly Jerusalem a spiritual representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven. In this age of time believers are visibly the True Church mixed with both wheat and tares, and when we die, we ascend to heaven unseen the spiritual body without human form living souls.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2-3 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 22:16-17 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

When you are worshipping among believers in a Church and you understand your Church is not being faithful to Scripture or Christ, it has become an abomination unto God, and you should most assuredly depart out of that body and seek for a Church that has not forsaken God, and continues to spiritually worship God on Mt Zion, the heavenly spiritual Jerusalem, and general assembly and church of the firstborn. And after the last trumpet sounds and heaven and earth has passed away, the holy city above, new Jerusalem shall come down from God out of heaven prepared as the bride of Christ.

If you choose to argue through character assassination of myself or any other poster don't be surprised when your replies are ignored.

 

[covenantee]

However, neither the Word of God, nor any who are not Preterits biblically prove the doctrine presented in not truth!

The onus of proof does not rest upon doctrine which has been accepted in historical Christian orthodoxy for centuries.

Rather, it lies upon any doctrine which attempts to deny and reject accepted historical Christian orthodoxy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Church, the body of Christ is the heavenly Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, they are not separate entities. The body of Christ, on earth called Church spiritually is the visible representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven, and the bride of Christ is the unseen spiritual heavenly Jerusalem a spiritual representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven. In this age of time believers are visibly the True Church mixed with both wheat and tares, and when we die, we ascend to heaven unseen the spiritual body without human form living souls.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2-3 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 22:16-17 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

When you are worshipping among believers in a Church and you understand your Church is not being faithful to Scripture or Christ, it has become an abomination unto God, and you should most assuredly depart out of that body and seek for a Church that has not forsaken God, and continues to spiritually worship God on Mt Zion, the heavenly spiritual Jerusalem, and general assembly and church of the firstborn. And after the last trumpet sounds and heaven and earth has passed away, the holy city above, new Jerusalem shall come down from God out of heaven prepared as the bride of Christ.

You referred to "the Church", not "a Church" in your post. I'm aware that some churches don't preach the truth. You should be more clear when talking about false teaching churches in contrast to the church/body of Christ. You come across like you were saying we should leave the church itself rather than any individual church not preaching the truth.

If you choose to argue through character assassination of myself or any other poster don't be surprised when your replies are ignored.

What are you talking about? My question was genuine and sincere. What you were saying reminded me of things that TribulationSigns has said, so I wondered if what you're saying came from things you've seen him talk about or not.

 

[rwb]

The onus of proof does not rest upon doctrine which has been accepted in historical Christian orthodoxy for centuries.

Rather, it lies upon any doctrine which attempts to deny and reject accepted historical Christian orthodoxy.

The onus of proof? What accepted doctrine in historical Christianity disagrees who are not Preterits?

What part of the doctrine I've given attempts to deny and reject truth? You're not able to receive what I've given because it disagrees with Preterism which you embrace.

 

[covenantee]

The onus of proof? What accepted doctrine in historical Christianity disagrees who are not Preterits?

What part of the doctrine I've given attempts to deny and reject truth? You're not able to receive what I've given because it disagrees with Preterism which you embrace.

There is not one accepted historical orthodox Christian exegete who subscribes to your interpretation.

Not one.

 

[rwb]

There is not one accepted historical orthodox Christian exegete who subscribes to your interpretation.

Not one.

Okay, then none of the historical Christian writers have disproven the doctrine I espouse either. My doctrine is founded on the Scriptures and Holy Spirit within not on what others subscribe to.

 

[covenantee]

Okay, then none of the historical Christian writers have disproven the doctrine I espouse either. My doctrine is founded on the Scriptures and Holy Spirit within not on what others subscribe to.

They have disproven your doctrine by recognizing that Jesus predicts the literal destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in His Olivet discourse.

Their doctrine is also founded on the Scriptures and Holy Spirit within.

 

[rwb]

They have disproven your doctrine by recognizing that Jesus predicts the literal destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in His Olivet discourse.

Their doctrine is also founded on the Scriptures and Holy Spirit within.

Jesus doesn't predict a literal destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, He plainly declares it would come to pass! What you will not receive is how Jesus uses these physical realties to teach a spiritual truth. He was not focused on the Old that had already become an abomination unto God, He was focused on teaching His disciples about the spiritual Kingdom of God that they had very little understanding about before Christ's Holy Spirit instructed them.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus doesn't predict a literal destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, He plainly declares it would come to pass!

I don't understand. In post 201 you said "The disciples were speaking of the physical temple and city, but Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city."

If Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city, how did He plainly declare that their literal physical destruction would come to pass?

 

[rwb]

I don't understand. In post 201 you said "The disciples were speaking of the physical temple and city, but Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city."

If Christ did not answer them about the physical temple and city, how did He plainly declare that their literal physical destruction would come to pass?

My apologies, what I meant to say in post 201 is that Christ did not answer them about the when/timing of the destruction, but He plainly declared the city and temple would be destroyed.

I believe the only way the Olivet Discourse can be logically discerned that it makes sense is by understanding ALL that Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives must be applicable for His disciples in all ages beginning with the first century AD and ending when the last trumpet sounds. Christ spoke things that would be fulfilled physically as well as things that would be spiritually fulfilled. To understand we have to remember how Christ spoke in parables using physical/material things to illustrate spiritual realities. He always explained the parables to His disciples, and here also, that they and we might understand, after leaving this world He sent us His Spirit to teach and guide us.

Though He warned them of the destruction of all material things that represented the Old Covenant, He also used the material things utterly destroyed that we might know that the New Covenant through His blood, the heavenly/spiritual representation of the Kingdom of God (Church) has come. He warned them of the impending destruction of the Old Covenant, but also how the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth, the Church, might also become destroyed through abomination also if we, as His disciples are not carefully paying attention, because as long as this earth continues there will always be a mixture of good and bad, and when the bad comes in among the Church on earth, ruling and reigning over Her, then the Church on earth too, like the Old Covenant representations of the Kingdom of God shall be utterly destroyed.

It's only after the last trumpet sounds that Christ's Church shall be the pure and undefiled spiritual body of Christ in heaven and will then come down from heaven to the earth made new again filled with immortality and incorruptible to be with Christ forever.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Church, the body of Christ is the heavenly Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, they are not separate entities. The body of Christ, on earth called Church spiritually is the visible representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven,

Correct! The Church as a representative of the Kingdom of Heaven ON EARTH make up of both Chosen Elect (Wheat) and unsaved external believers. (Tares).

and the bride of Christ is the unseen spiritual heavenly Jerusalem a spiritual representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven. In this age of time believers are visibly the True Church mixed with both wheat and tares, and when we die, we ascend to heaven unseen the spiritual body without human form living souls.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New Jerusalem is the body of chosen elect of all time in Christ. Correct.

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2-3 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 22:16-17 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

When you are worshipping among believers in a Church and you understand your Church is not being faithful to Scripture or Christ, it has become an abomination unto God, and you should most assuredly depart out of that body and seek for a Church that has not forsaken God, and continues to spiritually worship God on Mt Zion, the heavenly spiritual Jerusalem, and general assembly and church of the firstborn. And after the last trumpet sounds and heaven and earth has passed away, the holy city above, new Jerusalem shall come down from God out of heaven prepared as the bride of Christ.

Correct.

If you choose to argue through character assassination of myself or any other poster don't be surprised when your replies are ignored.

Happy New Year!

As we step into this new year, we do so with hope, joy, and watchfulness. Our eyes are not just on tomorrow, but on the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

May this year find us faithful, loving truth, walking in holiness, and encouraging one another all the more as we see the Day approaching. Whether the Lord comes today or in the days ahead, may He find us ready, serving, and proclaiming His gospel.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Grace and peace to you in the New Year!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

A recent session I had with Chatgpt pertaining to some of the Discourse

Those using AI are being deceived and they don't even know it.

 

[rwb]

Correct! The Church as a representative of the Kingdom of Heaven ON EARTH make up of both Chosen Elect (Wheat) and unsaved external believers. (Tares).



New Jerusalem is the body of chosen elect of all time in Christ. Correct.



Correct.





Happy New Year!

As we step into this new year, we do so with hope, joy, and watchfulness. Our eyes are not just on tomorrow, but on the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

May this year find us faithful, loving truth, walking in holiness, and encouraging one another all the more as we see the Day approaching. Whether the Lord comes today or in the days ahead, may He find us ready, serving, and proclaiming His gospel.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Grace and peace to you in the New Year!

Thank you for the gracious reply! What beautiful sentiments with truth - Happy New Year to you as well! And yes, I agree - "Even so, come, Lord Jesus, Come"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Okay, then none of the historical Christian writers have disproven the doctrine I espouse either. My doctrine is founded on the Scriptures and Holy Spirit within not on what others subscribe to.

Do you think that God has revealed the truth regarding that particular doctrine only to you and no one else in the world?

My apologies, what I meant to say in post 201 is that Christ did not answer them about the when/timing of the destruction, but He plainly declared the city and temple would be destroyed.

Why would He tell them that the city of Jerusalem and its temple would be destroyed, but then not be willing to answer the disciples' question about that? Why would He bother telling them that if He wasn't willing to answer any questions about it?

 

[rwb]

Do you think that God has revealed the truth regarding that particular doctrine only to you and no one else in the world?


Why would He tell them that the city of Jerusalem and its temple would be destroyed, but then not be willing to answer the disciples' question about that? Why would He bother telling them that if He wasn't willing to answer any questions about it?

Because since the New Covenant has come, and the Old is already an abomination unto God, Christ wanted them to stop looking to the Old as though the Old and New could somehow be mixed. When Christ came to earth with the spiritual Kingdom of God it was time to stop looking for some kind of fulfillment through the Old and begin to understand the New Covenant will never be fulfilled through the Old because it is not a physical/material Kingdom but the spiritual Kingdom of God. The Old Covenant was already gone forever and it did not take a literal destruction of the temple and city in 70 AD to make the Old Covenant obsolete and vanish away. The advent of Christ coming to earth a man had already done that long before 70 AD.

The only thing the literal destruction in 70 AD accomplished, was to put an end to sacrificial and ceremonial law that was no longer of any saving value anyway.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because since the New Covenant has come, and the Old is already an abomination unto God, Christ wanted them to stop looking to the Old as though the Old and New could somehow be mixed. When Christ came to earth with the spiritual Kingdom of God it was time to stop looking for some kind of fulfillment through the Old and begin to understand the New Covenant will never be fulfilled through the Old because it is not a physical/material Kingdom but the spiritual Kingdom of God. The Old Covenant was already gone forever and it did not take a literal destruction of the temple and city in 70 AD to make the Old Covenant obsolete and vanish away. The advent of Christ coming to earth a man had already done that long before 70 AD.

The only thing the literal destruction in 70 AD accomplished, was to put an end to sacrificial and ceremonial law that was no longer of any saving value anyway.

I, of course, have said repeatedly that the old covenant was made obsolete by the blood of Christ. It did not end in 70 AD, it ended when Jesus died on the cross. However, many Jews did not understand this and they kept themselves under the old covenant rather than embracing Christ and being under the new covenant of His blood to cover their sins. Because of that, they needed to be punished. And that is what God did in 70 AD. That was a very significant event in terms of showing the Jews that God does not tolerate unrepentant sin and the rejection of His Son. He took way their way of life and their religion and that's not something to just act as if it was a minor event. It's certainly something that Jesus would not have thought was not worth His time to talk about in any detail.

 

[rwb]

I, of course, have said repeatedly that the old covenant was made obsolete by the blood of Christ. It did not end in 70 AD, it ended when Jesus died on the cross. However, many Jews did not understand this and they kept themselves under the old covenant rather than embracing Christ and being under the new covenant of His blood to cover their sins. Because of that, they needed to be punished. And that is what God did in 70 AD. That was a very significant event in terms of showing the Jews that God does not tolerate unrepentant sin and the rejection of His Son. He took way their way of life and their religion and that's not something to just act as if it was a minor event. It's certainly something that Jesus would not have thought was not worth His time to talk about in any detail.

What difference does it make that Jews in unbelief continued under the law of Old and as promised, the wrath of God would make an end of these things? When Christ taught from the Mt of Olives He was not speaking to Jews in unbelief! He was speaking to His disciples about things His disciples would experience as they proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world. Jesus told His disciples every material thing pertaining to the Old would be destroyed, because knowing this, they would turn their hearts from these material things they so admired and be about building the Kingdom of God as they proclaim the gospel.

Unlike Preterits and Dispensationalists, Christ was not fixated on the Old Covenant law and told His disciples the Old they admired would be destroyed. That should have been enough for the disciples to understand the time for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as they proclaim the gospel unto all nations is what they should be about, not worrying about the Old. Therefore, they should be concerned about people coming into the spiritual Kingdom of God as they proclaim the gospel and not focus on the material things of this world that the Old represented.