"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[GodsGrace]

Im not, Im responding to what you wrote, you said we must obey Jesus commands, I asked you how many you followed, you said all of them. So I put a sample list up for your attention.
I notice you havent responded to the examples of obeying the TC I also put before you.
Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious of his day who did not practice what they preached/insisted of others.

OK I have to leave till later...
but
Let's get this discussion back on track.

I stated, and provided scripture - to which you did not reply -
confirming that the NT teaches that FAITH ALONE is not a correct teaching.

I said that this teaching has come about only in the 1800's.

I told you that you're conflating THE LAW with living the way Jesus taught...
IOW
We are to keep all His commandments---which He narrowed down to the Two Great Commandments...

and, we are to keep the Moral Law which would be the 10 Commandments.

We are NOT under the Law but we are under the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH,,,
to which I also posted scripture.

I asked you if you believe you can still be saved IF YOU RETURN TO A LIFE OF SIN.

This sent you off on a chase and I will not be following you there.

If you care to confirm your position---fine...
otherwise you can state that you're not interested in the discussion...
that's fine too....

However, I stand by the teaching of the NT that
FAITH ALONE is not biblical.

 

[saved by grace 101]

OK I have to leave till later...
but
Let's get this discussion back on track.

I stated, and provided scripture - to which you did not reply -
confirming that the NT teaches that FAITH ALONE is not a correct teaching.

I said that this teaching has come about only in the 1800's.

I told you that you're conflating THE LAW with living the way Jesus taught...
IOW
We are to keep all His commandments---which He narrowed down to the Two Great Commandments...

and, we are to keep the Moral Law which would be the 10 Commandments.

We are NOT under the Law but we are under the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH,,,
to which I also posted scripture.

I asked you if you believe you can still be saved IF YOU RETURN TO A LIFE OF SIN.

This sent you off on a chase and I will not be following you there.

If you care to confirm your position---fine...
otherwise you can state that you're not interested in the discussion...
that's fine too....

However, I stand by the teaching of the NT that
FAITH ALONE is not biblical.

You have made statements, we MUST obey the Ten Commandments and Jesus commands. You do not want to follow me to the examples given because you know you do not obey the law you insist must be obeyed to maintain justification. BTW, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible. So how can you maintain your justification by obeying the TC? That's what catholics believe, and you say protestants agree with them

 

[keithr]

Phil 2:7 states that he EMPTIED HIMSELF, taking on the form of a servant.
WHAT did He empty Himself of?

Despite being in the form of God (a spirit being of high rank, above the angels), he didn't think that he should try to be equal to God, but instead he gave up all he had, his rank, authority and dignity, and in humility became a like a servant (he gave up his form of God and took the form of a servant).

This reply above is in answer to my statement that
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND WAS ALWAYS WITH GOD.

Your answer has nothing to do with what I stated.

No, my response was to what I quoted from your post, which was "The Son always was with God as God's Word".

The WORD is the logos of God.

"Word" is a translation of the Greek word logos.

do you believe THE WORD/THE LOGOS was at some point separated from God?

God's Word, what God said or communicated, is always "with" God, but at when He speaks through other beings (angels or men) then His Word is with them too. Jesus was dead for three days and three nights, and so was separated from God.

THE WORD was NOT God the Father. But the WORD is God.... anything that is a part of God is God. God cannot be separated from Himself.

The Father, YHVH, is the only true almighty God. The Word is what he spoke. The Bible is God's Word to us, communicated through men (and angels). The prophets and Jesus were spokepersons for God, hence Jesus was the Word of God - John 14:10 WEB

(10) Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.​

John 12:49-50 WEB

(49) For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.​

(50) I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.”​

When God forsook Jesus after all mankind's sins had been laid upon Jesus, then Jesus was separated from God's Word.

And Zecharia never claimed to be God.

I should think not! Jesus also never claimed to be God.

We agree that God is our Savior. We agree that Jesus died to be our Savior. CONCLUSION: Jesus is God.

No, that is the wrong conclusion! As I quoted, 1 John 4:14 UASV

(14) And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.​

Compare with Joshua 24:17 WEB

(17) for it is Yahweh our God who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and who did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way in which we went, and among all the peoples through the middle of whom we passed.​

God sent Moses to free the Israelites from their slavery; that does not mean that Moses was God. Similarly, God sent His Son to free mankind from the bondage of sin, to be the saviour of the World, but that does not mean that God's Son was God.

I think Paul knew what he meant to say.

Pual also said/wrote:

2 Corinthians 1:2-3 WEB

(2) Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;​

Galatians 1:3-4 WEB

(3) Grace to you and peace from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ,​

(4) who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father—​

1 Corinthians 8:6 WEB

(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​

Jesus is not our father; he is referred to as our brother and our bridegroom/husband, but never as our father. Our heavenly father is YHVH.

Romans 8:29 WEB

(29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.​

2 Corinthians 11:2 WEB

(2) For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy. For I married you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.​

Romans 8:15 WEB

(15) For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”​

Ephesians 1:3-5 WEB

(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;​

(4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him in love;​

(5) having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,​

Matthew 6:9 WEB

(9) Pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.​

You read too many versions and too many writings by men that are not Christian.

No I don't!

(anyone who does not accept the Trinity should not consider themselves to be Christian).

So all the Apostles and early Christians are not Christians, according to you! I accept what the Bible (God's Word) says, not what confused and deceived men made up.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have made statements, we MUST obey the Ten Commandments and Jesus commands. You do not want to follow me to the examples given because you know you do not obey the law you insist must be obeyed to maintain justification. BTW, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible. So how can you maintain your justification by obeying the TC? That's what catholics believe, and you say protestants agree with them

saved...been on these Forms 10 years now if not more.
I've come across "Christians" that tell me they could blaspheme God and still be saved.
I've heard from Christians that tell me that good works is helping God and it's A SIN to help God.

The best way to a conversation is to converse.
Yes. WE MUST OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

Do YOU advise new Christians that it's OK to break the commandments of God?
Do YOU think it's sinful to do good works/deeds?

Yes. I INSIST that we must obey God.

You do not agree?

What do you believe saved?
You think you can be saved by DISOBEYING God?
By living as you want to instead of how God wants you to live?

We maintain our justification as John said in his first letter.

Read the first two chapters...no more time right now.
Do you think John is wrong?

Then read 1 John 3:9
Do you understand the difference between this and the first two chapters of 1 John??

Later.

 

[saved by grace 101]

You have made statements, we MUST obey the Ten Commandments and Jesus commands. You do not want to follow me to the examples given because you know you do not obey the law you insist must be obeyed to maintain justification. BTW, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible. So how can you maintain your justification by obeying the TC? That's what catholics believe, and you say protestants agree with them

You expect me to debate with you, when you make statements, I respond to your statements, then you want to ignore the replies, becausev they put you in a difficult position. You cannot debate that way. All you are prepared to do is make satatements, ask questions whilst refusing to address what I write in repose to your statements

 

[GodsGrace]

You expect me to debate with you, when you make statements, I respond to your statements, then you want to ignore the replies, becausev they put you in a difficult position. You cannot debate that way. All you are prepared to do is make satatements, ask questions whilst refusing to address what I write in repose to your statements

ME
In a difficult position?


Get real
or get out.

 

[saved by grace 101]

saved...been on these Forms 10 years now if not more.
I've come across "Christians" that tell me they could blaspheme God and still be saved.
I've heard from Christians that tell me that good works is helping God and it's A SIN to help God.

The best way to a conversation is to converse.
Yes. WE MUST OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

Do YOU advise new Christians that it's OK to break the commandments of God?
Do YOU think it's sinful to do good works/deeds?

Yes. I INSIST that we must obey God.

You do not agree?

What do you believe saved?
You think you can be saved by DISOBEYING God?
By living as you want to instead of how God wants you to live?

We maintain our justification as John said in his first letter.

Read the first two chapters...no more time right now.
Do you think John is wrong?

Then read 1 John 3:9
Do you understand the difference between this and the first two chapters of 1 John??

Later.

OK, everyone can see you refuse to address my points in response to what you wrote.
Well we have established you transgress the TC and Christ's teaching, to maintain justification by obeying them requires full obedience(Gal3:10&11) So unfortunately, you are in a very bad position indeed. But I will continue
What is the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

 

[BreadOfLife]

So a believer maintains their justification by obeying the law Paul termed the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation?
Paul said we die to the law in order to bear fruit for God. He gave an example of one of the TC concerning this. I don't see how you can die to the law if you believe your continued justification hinges on obeying it, do you?

No so fast . . .

Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the dietary and ritual laws. Those are no longer binding because they were fulfilled by Christ (Col. 2:16-17). Remember what Jesus said in Matt 22:

Matt. 22:37-39
Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Everything we say and do about God and each other is encompassed by these commandments. If you claim that you are justified and ignore the commandments – you are living a LIE.

 

[XtraPercept]

Let all flee from the ecumenical boat
for on the day of THE LORD it shall sink and surely not float .
Just finishing up your rhyme .

You complete my message like a tacky bumper sticker on a Bugatti.

What have I written that is directly against almighty God YHVH or His beloved Son Yeshua? If you think I have said something you dsagree with, then show me from the Bible why you think I am mistaken. As I said, this is a Bible Study forum!

2 Peter 1:17-18 WEB

(17) For he received from God the Father honor and glory when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”​

(18) We heard this voice come out of heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.​

Contend then, by the intent of what you serve and in the manner by which you serve it.

Your god is identified by everlasting vitriol and irrational mystery math.

My God wrote and preserved Scripture by the power of His Word alone, creating all that is by His utterance.

You can't comprehend your god, whether it is one or three or something in between and you are afraid to consider anything else because you think your god will burn you for it!

My God is the only God and you do not know Him. You can't even tell Him apart from His Son.

Normally I would seek a more subtle delivery, but you are clueless of the gravity of your offense. You reiterate that this is a Bible study forum and yet so few on here know the actual name of the Source.

It's for the best though, check out what Jeremiah had to say to the people who knew the Name they were swearing by and kept being evil anyway.

 

[keithr]

What difference does it make what translation I'm using?

If we cannot trust God's WORD...
what can we trust?

The English Bibles that we have are translations of the original writing's of God's Word. We can't fully trust all translations. Comparing different translations helps us to better understand the true meaning. For example, which is easier to understand - Genesis 25:29:

KJV

(29) And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:​

or UASV

(29) Once when Jacob was cooking a stew, Esau came in from the field, and he was exhausted.​

For the record, I use the NASB.
But I have about 15 versions in front of me,,,

And you accused me of "You read too many versions"!

1 John 5:19-20
19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Here TRUE GOD is referring to JESUS since Jesus was spoke of last.
Check out your Greek grammar or English grammar.

The Cambridge Bible Notes says:

This is the true God] It is impossible to determine with certainty whether ‘This’ (οὗτος) refers to the Father, the principal substantive of the previous sentence, or to Jesus Christ, the nearest substantive.​

So we have to refer to other verses to determine what John meant, such as:

Jeremiah 10:10 WEB

(10) But Yahweh is the true God. He is the living God, and an everlasting King. At his wrath, the earth trembles. The nations aren’t able to withstand his indignation.​

1 John 5:11-13 WEB

(11) The testimony is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

(12) He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn’t have God’s Son doesn’t have the life.​

(13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.​

1 John 1:1-3 WEB

(1) That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life​

(2) (and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);​

(3) that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us. Yes, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son, Jesus Christ.​

And John wrote Revelation 1:6 WEB

(6) and he {Jesus} made us to be a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​

So if the resurrected Jesus has a God then Jesus can't be the "true God". John understood that, so we can deduce that the "true God" that he was referring to in 1 John 5:20 was God, not Jesus. Remember that John also recorded Jesus praying to his Father, saying - John 17:3 WEB

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

 

[keithr]

You can't comprehend your god, whether it is one or three or something in between and you are afraid to consider anything else because you think your god will burn you for it!

My God is the only God and you do not know Him. You can't even tell Him apart from His Son.

Normally I would seek a more subtle delivery, but you are clueless of the gravity of your offense. You reiterate that this is a Bible study forum and yet so few on here know the actual name of the Source.

It's for the best though, check out what Jeremiah had to say to the people who knew the Name they were swearing by and kept being evil anyway.

If you can't support your view with relevant Bible verses, then I will not believe anything you write! Resorting to libel is not showing a correct Christian spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

You complete my message like a tacky bumper sticker on a Bugatti.



Contend then, by the intent of what you serve and in the manner by which you serve it.

Your god is identified by everlasting vitriol and irrational mystery math.

My God wrote and preserved Scripture by the power of His Word alone, creating all that is by His utterance.

You can't comprehend your god, whether it is one or three or something in between and you are afraid to consider anything else because you think your god will burn you for it!

My God is the only God and you do not know Him. You can't even tell Him apart from His Son.

Normally I would seek a more subtle delivery, but you are clueless of the gravity of your offense. You reiterate that this is a Bible study forum and yet so few on here know the actual name of the Source.

It's for the best though, check out what Jeremiah had to say to the people who knew the Name they were swearing by and kept being evil anyway.

You wrote MY GOD is the ONLY GOD .
Well the only way TO GOD is JESUS THE CHRIST .
SO do try and remember that when these ecumenical harlots get up and holler all religoins serve the same GOD we do .
THEY do serve the same god . IT is just NOT THE GOD . es el diablo .

 

[Button]

Why do you say that? There was no mention of Moses in the recorded discussion - Jesus spoke only about his Father and the Jews mentioned Abraham. Jesus simply declared that he had been in existence from before Abraham existed. There was nothing in what Jesus said that would lead the Jews to think about God telling Moses about what name they should use when referring to God.

All those Jews to whom Jesus spoke would know what I Am meant. That name is what led them out of Egypt.

 

[amigo de christo]

All those Jews to whom Jesus spoke would know what I Am meant. That name is what led them out of Egypt.

Yes indeed my friend .
Tell them that I AM sent thee .
And many moons and cycles around the sun later , meaning years ,
ONE would come to MAKE MANIFEST that very NAME .
He was before all that was created was
and by HIM were all things created .
HE is THE WORD OF GOD and HE IS the FIRST and the last .
In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD
and the Word was GOD . MOUNT up and hit the trenches the hour of great delusion
has arisen and we must do all to POINT to CHRIST JESUS while time remains .

 

[saved by grace 101]

No so fast . . .

Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the dietary and ritual laws. Those are no longer binding because they were fulfilled by Christ (Col. 2:16-17). Remember what Jesus said in Matt 22:

I cannot believe you wrote that! Paul is referring to the Mosaic law of rite, ritual and ceremony when he states the law is the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation?
1) The non moral law/rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:9) Such law would NOT be as Paul described in 2Cor3:6-9 Law you can faultlessly obey you can indeed be justified by obeying, yet Paul states you cannot be justified by obeying the law. Why not? Well there's only the moral left!
Paul stated the law engraved in stone was the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation(2Cor3:6-9), NOT the law written on parchments! The only law engraved in stone was the Ten Commandments.
Im sorry, but you are way outside of comfort zone here!
And to be honest, the words 'Ten Commandments' are for the old covenant, not the new.
I lived with some catholics once in a christian community, nice people, however, when it came to justification they struggled, as you do.

 

[saved by grace 101]

No so fast . . .

Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the dietary and ritual laws. Those are no longer binding because they were fulfilled by Christ (Col. 2:16-17). Remember what Jesus said in Matt 22:

Matt. 22:37-39
Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Everything we say and do about God and each other is encompassed by these commandments. If you claim that you are justified and ignore the commandments – you are living a LIE.

As to the rest of what you wrote, I will ask you, a catholic, what is the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

 

[XtraPercept]

If you can't support your view with relevant Bible verses, then I will not believe anything you write! Resorting to libel is not showing a correct Christian spirit.

The Father is one. You do not understand the nature of His unity with the Son because you think the holy Spirit is a third person of a mysteriously three part god who told his people that he is one. My God is THE God and He is one, singular, the Father, the Creator, and distinctly above and over His Son as all things.

The God of truth is only good, there is no evil in Him. He does not torment anyone. It is a human contrived wickedness to inflict everlasting torment on an enemy. This is profound vitriol.

You wrote MY GOD is the ONLY GOD .
Well the only way TO GOD is JESUS THE CHRIST .
SO do try and remember that when these ecumenical harlots get up and holler all religoins serve the same GOD we do .
THEY do serve the same god . IT is just NOT THE GOD . es el diablo .

Yes indeed my friend .
Tell them that I AM sent thee .
And many moons and cycles around the sun later , meaning years ,
ONE would come to MAKE MANIFEST that very NAME .
He was before all that was created was
and by HIM were all things created .
HE is THE WORD OF GOD and HE IS the FIRST and the last .
In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD
and the Word was GOD . MOUNT up and hit the trenches the hour of great delusion
has arisen and we must do all to POINT to CHRIST JESUS while time remains .

God is one. His name is I Am. I caution you strongly against invoking The Name and attempting to merge it with your mystery math doctrine and your eternally vengeful theology.

 

[JustMe]

saved...been on these Forms 10 years now if not more.
I've come across "Christians" that tell me they could blaspheme God and still be saved.
I've heard from Christians that tell me that good works is helping God and it's A SIN to help God.

The best way to a conversation is to converse.
Yes. WE MUST OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

Do YOU advise new Christians that it's OK to break the commandments of God?
Do YOU think it's sinful to do good works/deeds?

Yes. I INSIST that we must obey God.

You do not agree?

What do you believe saved?
You think you can be saved by DISOBEYING God?
By living as you want to instead of how God wants you to live?

We maintain our justification as John said in his first letter.

Read the first two chapters...no more time right now.
Do you think John is wrong?

Then read 1 John 3:9
Do you understand the difference between this and the first two chapters of 1 John??

Later.

What is you relationship between obeying the10Cs and your state of salvation?

 

[Marvelloustime]

You wrote MY GOD is the ONLY GOD .
Well the only way TO GOD is JESUS THE CHRIST .
SO do try and remember that when these ecumenical harlots get up and holler all religoins serve the same GOD we do .
THEY do serve the same god . IT is just NOT THE GOD . es el diablo .

@amigo de christo

 

[GodsGrace]

OK, everyone can see you refuse to address my points in response to what you wrote.
Well we have established you transgress the TC and Christ's teaching, to maintain justification by obeying them requires full obedience(Gal3:10&11) So unfortunately, you are in a very bad position indeed. But I will continue
What is the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

ME
in a bad position?


Those reading along know what's going on.
No problem.

And you want to proceed to the New Covenant?
I'm afraid you're not ready to discuss the New Covenant.

You'd have to know the 7 or 8 that came before that one first...
you'd have to know what they all have in common.

And I don't believe that you do.

You're also a rather dishonest person...
not becoming of one that claims to be Christian.

I don't like to converse with dishonest persons.