"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[GodsGrace]

What is you relationship between obeying the10Cs and your state of salvation?

I'd say that's between me and God.
NOT between me and you.

 

[keithr]

The Father is one. You do not understand the nature of His unity with the Son because you think the holy Spirit is a third person of a mysteriously three part god who told his people that he is one.

You're wrong, I don't believe that. You've made the wrong assumption. Stop guessing what I believe or think!

My God is THE God and He is one, singular, the Father, the Creator, and distinctly above and over His Son as all things.

Good. I believe that too.

The God of truth is only good, there is no evil in Him. He does not torment anyone. It is a human contrived wickedness to inflict everlasting torment on an enemy. This is profound vitriol.

Good. I believe that too.

God is one. His name is I Am.

You're wrong about that. God's name is YHVH (Yahavah), translated as Yahweh in the WEB:

Exodus 3:15 WEB

(15) God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh {YHVH}, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.​

Exodus 6:3 WEB

(3) and I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty; but by my name Yahweh I was not known to them.​

Exodus 15:3 WEB

(3) Yahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name.​

Leviticus 22:2 WEB

(2) “Tell Aaron and his sons to separate themselves from the holy things of the children of Israel, which they make holy to me, and that they not profane my holy name. I am Yahweh.​

Psalms 8:9 WEB

(9) Yahweh, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!​

Isaiah 42:8 WEB

(8) “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images.​

 

[XtraPercept]

You're wrong, I don't believe that. You've made the wrong assumption. Stop guessing what I believe or think!

I'm not guessing, you express irrationality as clearly as you are able.

Good. I believe that too.

You say that twice though you fundamentally disagree with the truth of the words you claim agreement with by the doctrines you spread!

You're wrong about that. God's name is YHVH (Yahavah), translated as Yahweh in the WEB:

Your yahweh is a subdeity of the god el, the ancient canaanite deity. Your god was a well endowed bovine headed god of agriculture, livestock, and war, and it had a wife or mistress or something.

Your god's name has been inserted over mine because The Name was initially recorded without vowels. Your fill-in name is a slander and a travesty and a mockery of I Am. The closer you get to the Truth while still slandering, the guiltier you are.

I serve I Am, and I will exposit any plain and simple truth for which you provide opportunity by arguing with me from whatever text you can bring up in defense of your irrational assembly of words for which you have not sought lexical definitions in your attempt to use.

My God is the Word and you slander Him with your demeaning assumptions.

 

[XtraPercept]

I was raised JudeoChristian and pursued God in earnest for 37 years.

I was confused and nonsensical just 10 years ago, physically and mentally broken.

It wasn't until I cursed the hateful triune god that I met the REAL God, and I only truly met Him less than a year ago now.

Today I am a lion of Judah and I contend for the I Am by the power of the Word He has invested in me.

Imitation only appeals in the absence of authenticity, which upon presentation offends all who mimic.

 

[saved by grace 101]

ME
in a bad position?


Those reading along know what's going on.
No problem.

And you want to proceed to the New Covenant?
I'm afraid you're not ready to discuss the New Covenant.

You'd have to know the 7 or 8 that came before that one first...
you'd have to know what they all have in common.

And I don't believe that you do.

You're also a rather dishonest person...
not becoming of one that claims to be Christian.

I don't like to converse with dishonest persons.

Don't you know what the core foundation is upon which the new covenant stands? It addresses your main point!
Who is dishonest? I asked you how many of Jesus commands you even tried to follow, you responded 'All of them'
I then gave you a few examples, you then said you weren't Jesus and I was deflecting off the subject matter. So obviously you had not been honest had you!
The discussion btw, was whether you maintained your salvation by obeying the TC, something you quickly veered away from, once you were shown what obedience to them entails

 

[JustMe]

I'd say that's between me and God.
NOT between me and you.

It's a simple and typical type question. Let me say it again in a different way.

You preach we must obey commands, like the 10Cs and if you violate just one of them, do you think your salvation is in jeopardy? And if not, then why not?

 

[JustMe]

I'm not guessing, you express irrationality as clearly as you are able.



You say that twice though you fundamentally disagree with the truth of the words you claim agreement with by the doctrines you spread!



Your yahweh is a subdeity of the god el, the ancient canaanite deity. Your god was a well endowed bovine headed god of agriculture, livestock, and war, and it had a wife or mistress or something.

Your god's name has been inserted over mine because The Name was initially recorded without vowels. Your fill-in name is a slander and a travesty and a mockery of I Am. The closer you get to the Truth while still slandering, the guiltier you are.

I serve I Am, and I will exposit any plain and simple truth for which you provide opportunity by arguing with me from whatever text you can bring up in defense of your irrational assembly of words for which you have not sought lexical definitions in your attempt to use.

My God is the Word and you slander Him with your demeaning assumptions.

Sorry to interrupt your discussion here, although you do bring up a key ad vital point concerning who is our true Creator.

I have ready and understand that YHWH is not the original and 'highest.' As I extract some more information: ʾĒl ʿElyōn is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as ὁ Θεός ὁ ὕψιστος ("God the highest"), who is 'higher' than YHWH; He is the original El God.

So what are we to do with this information. Preach it to others? Most of Christendom is ignorant of this information and then who is their real God. Do they care or should they care?

 

[JLB]

Something that came to me that blew my socks off:

"Before Abraham Was, I AM" (Jn.8:58)

I had never understood this but suddenly tonight I believe the meaning came to me. Why did Jesus say I AM? Why didn't he just say I was? I think the answer is that God inhabits eternity. He cannot say I was, or I will be as God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He never changes. God is outside time!

Jesus is openly declaring that He is God, I AM.

The Jews immediately picked up stones to stone Him to death, not understanding who He is.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exodus 3:14

 

[saved by grace 101]

Most of Christendom is ignorant of this information and then who is their real God. Do they care or should they care?

In my experience, many in the churches are ahead of many on the internet. They haven't studied anywhere near as much. The result?
In my over four decades of going to various denominational trinitarian churches, I would say at least half the people in them would only refer to the Father as God. And well over 90% of them would accept anyone as a christian who solely referred to Christ as the Son of God. And in my experience, this subject is only a big deal on the internet. And the people who have studied far less, tend to accept on the whole the biblical requirement of belief to receive salvation.

 

[Lizbeth]

Plain words, people! Plain and simple words!

Was Paul alive before he was born? ... No!
But is he eternal? ... What Apostle wouldn't be?
But if eternal, then did he begin? ... Of course!

What is a Christian but one who follows Christ? And how do they do so but by His holy Life within them?

Jesus is the first-born of the resurrected, the first among the everlasting as a prototype for all men who would seek unity with the LORD in spirit and in truth.

Did Jesus exist before He was born? ... As surely as I did!
Was I alive before I was born? ... Only as an idea, as I had a child in mind before I begot him.

The Spirit of God is from eternal to eternal, but you would confuse the knitting of unblemished flesh and unblemished Spirit with some form of mysterious pre-existence nonsense?

If the questions don't make any more sense than the answers, you can tell the thing is not from the God of truth!

Only difference is, Jesus was "in the form of God" and "equal with God" (Phil 2:6) before He was begotten and born on earth. Were we? ...it would be blasphemous to think and teach so. And being found in the form of a man, He HUMBLED Himself....became subordinate to the Father as was fitting for one now found in the form of a man, setting an example of submission and obedience to God for all men.

Would God have us place our faith and trust in a mere man? No, because His word says "cursed is the one who trusts in man". If we are born of the Spirit, our hearts know Who Jesus is (even if our as yet uninstructed brains haven't yet cottoned on to that in the beginning). Because it is the Spirit of Christ/God we received, not the spirit of a man. We pray to, worship, praise and give thanks to the risen Christ and Lord, not to a human being, God forbid.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm not guessing, you express irrationality as clearly as you are able.



You say that twice though you fundamentally disagree with the truth of the words you claim agreement with by the doctrines you spread!



Your yahweh is a subdeity of the god el, the ancient canaanite deity. Your god was a well endowed bovine headed god of agriculture, livestock, and war, and it had a wife or mistress or something.

Your god's name has been inserted over mine because The Name was initially recorded without vowels. Your fill-in name is a slander and a travesty and a mockery of I Am. The closer you get to the Truth while still slandering, the guiltier you are.

I serve I Am, and I will exposit any plain and simple truth for which you provide opportunity by arguing with me from whatever text you can bring up in defense of your irrational assembly of words for which you have not sought lexical definitions in your attempt to use.

My God is the Word and you slander Him with your demeaning assumptions.

Wow, that is an evil accusation. Are we supposed to be striving about words? I don't think God is worried overmuch about how we spell His name, as long as it is HE who we worship by HIS Spirit dwelling in us.

 

[JustMe]

In my experience, many in the churches are ahead of many on the internet. They haven't studied anywhere near as much. The result?
In my over four decades of going to various denominational trinitarian churches, I would say at least half the people in them would only refer to the Father as God. And well over 90% of them would accept anyone as a christian who solely referred to Christ as the Son of God. And in my experience, this subject is only a big deal on the internet. And the people who have studied far less, tend to accept on the whole the biblical requirement of belief to receive salvation.

And then they really do not care about the character name called YHWH either

 

[keithr]

I'm not guessing, you express irrationality as clearly as you are able.

What have I written that is irrational? Be specific. For example, you wrote "you think the holy Spirit is a third person of a mysteriously three part god", so tell me where I wrote that. I'm 100% sure that I have not written anything in this thread (or any other thread) that implies that.

You say that twice though you fundamentally disagree with the truth of the words you claim agreement with by the doctrines you spread!

Give me some examples. Don't just make accusations without giving some evidence.

Your yahweh is a subdeity of the god el, the ancient canaanite deity. Your god was a well endowed bovine headed god of agriculture, livestock, and war, and it had a wife or mistress or something.

Nonsense! The Bible is the Word of God - 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV

(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

or WEB

(16) Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,​

(The Greek word theopneustos means divinely breathed [Strongs Greek Lexicon].)

Therefore you should believe that YHVH is God's name. I recommend these videos for an explanation of how to pronounce God's name - The Hidden Beauty of the Holy Name of God - YHVH and The Name of God.

Your god's name has been inserted over mine because The Name was initially recorded without vowels. Your fill-in name is a slander and a travesty and a mockery of I Am. The closer you get to the Truth while still slandering, the guiltier you are.

Watch those videos - they are the main sources that I learnt from on how to pronounce and write God's name.

I serve I Am, and I will exposit any plain and simple truth for which you provide opportunity by arguing with me from whatever text you can bring up in defense of your irrational assembly of words for which you have not sought lexical definitions in your attempt to use.

More accusations and libel. You can't possibly know whether or not I have used lexicons, Bible commentaries or whatever to help me write my posts to this thread. Why are you being so nasty in your posts? You're lacking the spirit of Christ:

Matthew 11:29 WEB

(29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls.​

1 Thessalonians 2:7 WEB

(7) But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother cherishes her own children.​

2 Timothy 2:24-25 WEB

(24) The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient,​

(25) in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth,​

My God is the Word and you slander Him with your demeaning assumptions.

Again, what do you mean? Give examples.

 

[XtraPercept]

Are we supposed to be striving about words?

Absolutely.

 

[XtraPercept]

Again, what do you mean? Give examples.

You promote irrationality from the foundation, that the Almighty may be rent into three.

You pursue vain imaginations of a god whose wrath lasts forever, and then fear your own construct.

You do not know the higher meanings of the words you use because you have not sought God directly, for who He is!

It is for lack of reverence of the God who bears The Name that you lack a greater fullness of it's meaning.

You gloss over words you don't know, you presume to know definitions that are wholly inaccurate, and you argue from your offendedness, not from the doctrines you preach.

I stand against your doctrines on the basis of how they diminish the True God, the one Deuteronomy 32:4 describes and Exodus 3:14 identifies by His Name.

 

[XtraPercept]

And if it aid any of you, I bid you invoke your AI to assist your understanding of my posts as well as the construction of your retorts for your own positions. You cannot contend against truth on the same foundation, because there is only One.

 

[XtraPercept]

Do they care or should they care?

Not enough and absolutely.

 

[GodsGrace]

The English Bibles that we have are translations of the original writing's of God's Word. We can't fully trust all translations. Comparing different translations helps us to better understand the true meaning. For example, which is easier to understand - Genesis 25:29:

KJV

(29) And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:​

or UASV

(29) Once when Jacob was cooking a stew, Esau came in from the field, and he was exhausted.​

The KJV and the UASV mean exactly the same.
No difference.

Again, if we cannot trust the bible, we might as well stop using it.

And you accused me of "You read too many versions"!

But they all state exactly the same Keithr...maybe in different words.
Wes Huff, and others, will clearly state that there are some differences in manuscripts - mostly errors in transmission - but that they DO NOT change any Christian doctrine or put it into question.

The Cambridge Bible Notes says:

This is the true God] It is impossible to determine with certainty whether ‘This’ (οὗτος) refers to the Father, the principal substantive of the previous sentence, or to Jesus Christ, the nearest substantive.​

So we have to refer to other verses to determine what John meant, such as:

Jeremiah 10:10 WEB

(10) But Yahweh is the true God. He is the living God, and an everlasting King. At his wrath, the earth trembles. The nations aren’t able to withstand his indignation.​

1 John 5:11-13 WEB

(11) The testimony is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

(12) He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn’t have God’s Son doesn’t have the life.​

(13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.​

1 John 1:1-3 WEB

(1) That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life​

(2) (and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);​

(3) that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us. Yes, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son, Jesus Christ.​

Could you please state what your point is?
Jesus IS the SON.

But you're leaving out all the verses that state that He is God.
WHY are you leaving out those verses??

Here are some:


Titus 2:9-10
9 Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.

God is our savior.


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus is both Lord and God. And He did not correct Thomas.

Hebrews 1:8
8But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God,


The Son is referred to as God.


Titus 2:13
13Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Jesus is our great God and Savior.


2 Peter 1:1
1Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Jesus is our God and Savior.


John 1:18
18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

The only God...who is at the right side of the Father.....(God is at the right hand of God).


Romans 9.5
5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all,

Jesus is God over everything.


1 John 5:20
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus is the true God.


Acts 20:28
28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

God has blood?
God Father has no blood.
God Son has blood which was shed for believers.


You may choose not to believe what Paul, Peter and John teach.....
but they teach that Jesus is God.

And John wrote Revelation 1:6 WEB

(6) and he {Jesus} made us to be a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​

So if the resurrected Jesus has a God then Jesus can't be the "true God". John understood that, so we can deduce that the "true God" that he was referring to in 1 John 5:20 was God, not Jesus. Remember that John also recorded Jesus praying to his Father, saying - John 17:3 WEB

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

Problem here if you want to use Revelation to show that Jesus is not God.
Revelation proves Jesus is God.

Let's look:

Who is the FIRST and THE LAST?

Isaiah 44:6
6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides * Me.

The LORD or Yahweh, is stating that HE is the first and the last and that there is no God besides Him.


Now let's go to Revelation:

Revelation 1:17-18
17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,
18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

WHO in the bible, died and then came back to life?

Isaiah: God Father is the first and the last.
Revelation: God Son (who died and came back to life) is the first and the last.


Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done *.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Who will render to each man according to what he has done?
Jesus.

Let's confirm:

Matthew 16:27
27For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.


John 5:25-29
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


You'll find the above to be correct in any version of the bible you choose to read.

 

[XtraPercept]

Jesus is the true God.

The LORD or Yahweh,

The second portion explains your confusion regarding the first expression.

You do not understand the ideas of descendance and authority and leadership as they spring from the Spirit.

That's why you don't even use the right Name.

 

[keithr]

You promote irrationality from the foundation, that the Almighty may be rent into three.

I have never done that.

You pursue vain imaginations of a god whose wrath lasts forever, and then fear your own construct.

No I don't. That's more lies from you.

You do not know the higher meanings of the words you use because you have not sought God directly, for who He is!

How do you know what I have done?

You gloss over words you don't know, you presume to know definitions that are wholly inaccurate, and you argue from your offendedness, not from the doctrines you preach.

Yet more insults. You have still not shown me where, in which posts in this thread, I have written anything that matches your accusations.

I stand against your doctrines on the basis of how they diminish the True God, the one Deuteronomy 32:4 describes and Exodus 3:14 identifies by His Name.

What have I written that diminishes "the True God, the one Deuteronomy 32:4 describes"? Deuteronomy 32:4 KJV:

(4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.​

WEB

(4) The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are just. A God of faithfulness who does no wrong, just and right is he.​

Exodus 3:15 is where God first declares His name.

We're all in the school of Christ, still learning to be like our Lord Jesus. We should be participating in this forum to help each other learn, not to angrily accuse each other of being wrong. Satan is the accuser of the brethren; don't join him! - Revelation 12:10 WEB

(10) I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ has come; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.​

I have lost patience with your refusal to check your accusations against what I have actually written, and to try to prove your accusations. I will not reply to you anymore in this thread.

1 Peter 3:15-16 NET

(15) But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess.​

(16) Yet do it with courtesy and respect, keeping a good conscience, so that those who slander your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame when they accuse you.​

1 Peter 3:15-16 ISV

(15) Instead, exalt the Messiah as Lord in your lives. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you to explain the hope you have.​

(16) But do this gently and respectfully, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak evil of your good conduct in the Messiah will be ashamed of slandering you.​