"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

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saved by grace 101

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Please explain how you understand the New Covenant.
What do you mean by "Paul's way is better".

What did Paul teach that is better...better than WHAT?
Paul taught exactly what Jesus taught and the other writers.

Will try to be back later.
I thought I wrote it very simply. Paul believed if you carried each others burdens(loved them) you would fulfill the law/commandments of Christ, because, Christ's commands are mainly examples of loving your fellow man. The more you love others the more you fulfill the law of Christ
IE
If you loved someone enough you would lend to them without ever expecting anything back.
If you loved someone enough you would carry a heavy load of theirs not one mile but two
If you loved your enemies enough you would gladly give them more than what they stole from you
If you loved the blind, beggars, poor and lame enough you would invite them home for a meal, rather than family and friends
Etc
 
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amigo de christo

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Please explain how you understand the New Covenant.
What do you mean by "Paul's way is better".

What did Paul teach that is better...better than WHAT?
Paul taught exactly what Jesus taught and the other writers.

Will try to be back later.
As if pauls way was any different that JESUS or any other apostels .
This people has twisted things .
Paul teaches nothing contrary to CHRIST or any and i do mean ANY OTHER apostel did .
People buy into almost anything these days .
But this sheep has read its bible and that by grace and continued too and continues to do so daily .
So now allow a parting word for us all .
THERE IS no contradictions in what JESUS said or any other apostel left us in said bible .
IT ALL AGREES . the problem is MEN TWIST THINGS .
Many follow the RCC or the JW , or the mormon
or pauline , or calvin , or etc .
THEY FOLLOW MEN , NOT GOD and that is why they are deceived .
And now in this late and last hour
we got us a false love that is unifying the decieved to become one again
AND IT AINT UNDER GOD either . IT will merge them all , all who are not in the Lambs book of life ,
to this lie it calleth love and it claims is of GOD . HAND will join in hand
and religoins will become as one under what all beleive is GOD and all beleive is love , bUT IT THE DEVIL
icannot stop it . I WOULD be a fool to think i can . BUT I darn sure can warn against
it in hopes at least some might hear and leave this love of a harlot before forever its too late .
 
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saved by grace 101

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Why must you get personal?
How do YOU know what I do or don't do?

What's the difference?
Does Paul tell us we can sin and live life the way we wish to?
Im just making a point, I would make the same point about myself. You see, if we say we must obey Jesus commands in the gospels, we should always clarify we ourselves much fail to do this, in order to care about our brother or sister. For someone might read such a comment and assume the person making it is fully obeying Jesus commands as they have not said otherwise. They can then become crushed at their faliures to fully obey what they believe others are fully obeying. And it would not be loving others to crush them that way
 

GodsGrace

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I thought I wrote it very simply. Paul believed if you carried each others burdens(loved them) you would fulfill the law/commandments of Christ, because, Christ's commands are mainly examples of loving your fellow man. The more you love others the more you fulfill the law of Christ
IE
If you loved someone enough you would lend to them without ever expecting anything back.
If you loved someone enough you would carry a heavy load of theirs not one mile but two
If you loved your enemies enough you would gladly give them more than what they stole from you
If you loved the blind, beggars, poor and lame enough you would invite them home for a meal, rather than family and friends
Etc
Agreed.
But Jesus taught this....
It would be the Two Great Commandments:


Matthew 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."


Love God first or there won't be any love for anyone else.
Love your neighbor...do good in life.
Love yourself....if you don't love yourself, you won't love anyone else and you'll be miserable.

And in these commandments all the Law is fulfilled.
 

saved by grace 101

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Agreed.
But Jesus taught this....
It would be the Two Great Commandments:


Matthew 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."


Love God first or there won't be any love for anyone else.
Love your neighbor...do good in life.
Love yourself....if you don't love yourself, you won't love anyone else and you'll be miserable.

And in these commandments all the Law is fulfilled.
Absolutely true, which if we are honest, shows how far we fail to love perfectly
 

GodsGrace

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Im just making a point, I would make the same point about myself. You see, if we say we must obey Jesus commands in the gospels, we should always clarify we ourselves much fail to do this, in order to care about our brother or sister. For someone might read such a comment and assume the person making it is fully obeying Jesus commands as they have not said otherwise. They can then become crushed at their faliures to fully obey what they believe others are fully obeying. And it would not be loving others to crush them that way
I understand what you mean....
but we have to declare what the NT teaches.
It teaches that we are to be obedient.

I don't know any Christian that is perfect and I'm not believing I'll ever meet one.

You could maybe ask a simple question...
Do you believe you must be perfect?

And the reply will be NO.

But we can't just NOT say what the bible teaches.....
the new Christian cannot believe that he could live a sinful life and still be saved.
We should not stop trying to be the best we can be.
 

marks

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We do our best,
Jesus does the rest.

But we can't fool God...He does want our best.
Yes, this is something I like to remind myself . . . God knows how hard I try. Or don't try. Either way, there are no hiding from Him!

Much love!
 
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saved by grace 101

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I understand what you mean....
but we have to declare what the NT teaches.
It teaches that we are to be obedient.

I don't know any Christian that is perfect and I'm not believing I'll ever meet one.

You could maybe ask a simple question...
Do you believe you must be perfect?

And the reply will be NO.

But we can't just NOT say what the bible teaches.....
the new Christian cannot believe that he could live a sinful life and still be saved.
We should not stop trying to be the best we can be.
Lets turn to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands. Jeremiah prophesied it would not be like the old covenant. That was obey and live, righteousness of obeying the law was in place(Deut6:25)
Why did that have to be in place? An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it.
But under the new covenant God transferred applicable law which was once engraved in stone onto the hearts and min ds of believers. You need to consider that much, it is a totally different covenant now
What does it mean to have the law in your mind? It means you in your mind instinctively know how God wants you to live
What does it mean to have the law in your heart?
It means, you in your heart(the flesh is another matter) desire to live as God wants you to live. You have been born again of the Spirit, and are a new creation
Now if you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to live, you do not need justification of obeying the law do you. For an external law, yes, not an internal law on the heart.
 
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saved by grace 101

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We do our best,
Jesus does the rest.

But we can't fool God...He does want our best.
Now note which comes first in the covenant:
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more/Jesus died for your sin s

You only get the second part because the first part has taken place, for Jesus will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart desire to live as His father wants them to live
 

GodsGrace

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Yes, this is something I like to remind myself . . . God knows how hard I try. Or don't try. Either way, there are no hiding from Him!

Much love!
But He loves us like children, so we must never fear when we're doing our best!
 
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GodsGrace

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Lets turn to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands. Jeremiah prophesied it would not be like the old covenant. That was obey and live, righteousness of obeying the law was in place(Deut6:25)
Why did that have to be in place? An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it.
But under the new covenant God transferred applicable law which was once engraved in stone onto the hearts and min ds of believers. You need to consider that much, it is a totally different covenant now
What does it mean to have the law in your mind? It means you in your mind instinctively know how God wants you to live
What does it mean to have the law in your heart?
It means, you in your heart(the flesh is another matter) desire to live as God wants you to live. You have been born again of the Spirit, and are a new creation
Now if you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to live, you do not need justification of obeying the law do you. For an external law, yes, not an internal law on the heart.
I love everything you wrote but then you wrote this:

"Now if you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to live, you do not need justification of obeying the law do you. For an external law, yes, not an internal law on the heart."

That's confusing to me,,,imagine to a new believer.
Justification is being delcared right with God....righteous.

It sounds like you're saying that we do not need to obey the commandments...
but maybe you mean THE LAW?
 

Marvelloustime

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They have turned JESUS into a minstir of sin . Into a minstir of even unbeleif .
But as you rightly stated
Obediance was key IN EV ERY covenant .
GOD even told the priest , I WILL NOT accept your sacrfices
WHY

cause THEY REBELLED , ELI sons rebelled and ELI did not completely stop them .
GOD has always DESIRED OBEDIANCE
and HE who loves HIM would obey HIM .
THE righteousness of the law WAS NEVER OMI TTED .
JESUS came TO PLANT IT UPON OUR HEARTS , TO SAVE US and TO CHANGE US and GIVE US a whole new heart
That we would LOVE GOD above all . AND THERE IS NO LOVE IN DISOBEDIANCE .
TO LOVE THE LORD THY GOD above all Would not have DENIED obediance to HIM , TO HIS SON .
FOR the HOLY GHOST sheds the LOVE OF GOD , F ROM GOD UPON our hearts .
THAT LOVE LOVETH HIM and thus OBEYS HIM .
Many follow an ecumenical jesus , one that has denied HIM
and made the path to GOD very broad and very sin accepting . BUT THIS COMETH NOT OF GOD
because SIN and UNBELIEF are TRANGRESSION not LOVE . this people has loved a lie
they have loved a lie . And we must do all now to correct them and POINT TO JESUS .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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You fell for the agenda of men . And a price you will surely pay that all the worlds money
cannot save one from .
My advice keither , is we return to childlike faith , IF EVER ye had it to begin with .
BELEIVE what is written . whether or not you understand .
Whether or not one understands , UNDERSTAND THIS , if what one learns twists and omits
what is already written , Its time to understand it came of the darkness and hearts of lustful men
NOT GOD . DO not let them lie to you
and act as though the KJV or other older bibles lack things that their mighty mighty scholars have come to save us from .
THEY LIE to us all and they have been for a long long time . ON LY now at the end its getting much worse and fast too .
@amigo de christo
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saved by grace 101

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I love everything you wrote but then you wrote this:

"Now if you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to live, you do not need justification of obeying the law do you. For an external law, yes, not an internal law on the heart."

That's confusing to me,,,imagine to a new believer.
Justification is being delcared right with God....righteous.

It sounds like you're saying that we do not need to obey the commandments...
but maybe you mean THE LAW?
Why would a person not want to follow what is in their heart? God places any applicable law in a believers heart, what is in your heart you in your heart want to abide by. It is impossible for a person to say they do not care if they do not live according to how they in their heart want to live isn't it? Im glad you agreed with nearly everything, that's great
 
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GodsGrace

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Why would a person not want to follow what is in their heart? God places any applicable law in a believers heart, what is in your heart you in your heart want to abide by. It is impossible for a person to say they do not care if they do not live according to how they in their heart want to live isn't it? Im glad you agreed with nearly everything, that's great
That's the problem saved.
SOME DO say that they can live as they wish and still be saved.
Some preachers state that one can never lose their salvation NO MATTER WHAT.
This is why I think it's important to state carefully what the NT teaches.
 

saved by grace 101

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That's the problem saved.
SOME DO say that they can live as they wish and still be saved.
Some preachers state that one can never lose their salvation NO MATTER WHAT.
This is why I think it's important to state carefully what the NT teaches.




Incidentally, as to what started this conversation. The council of Trent stataes:

CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

2069: To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.

They are still in use today. the catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.



What does the bible say?



So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6



Which law is Paul talking about in the above? He goes on to tell us:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet/one of the Ten Commandmants.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7&8
 

GodsGrace

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Incidentally, as to what started this conversation. The council of Trent stataes:

CCC 2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

2069: To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.

They are still in use today. the catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.



What does the bible say?



So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6



Which law is Paul talking about in the above? He goes on to tell us:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet/one of the Ten Commandmants.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7&8
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is correct and is also what is taught in Protestantism.

You seem to like the verses that SEEM to state that it is not obligatory to obey the 10 comamndments.




John 14:15 JESUS SAID
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


I asked you once before and you did not reply.

Here is my question again:

WHAT COMMANDMENTS WAS JESUS REFERRING TO?


When Jesus stated
NOT ALL THOSE WHO CRY LORD, LORD ARE GOING TO HEAVEN,
BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER.
Matthew 7:21

What did JESUS MEAN by this statement?


And here is what Romans 7:4-6 means:

New Living Translation
So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God.

We have died to the POWER of the Law.
As you stated in your explanation of the NC.
We are now united with Jesus....and so NOW we can produce a harvest of good deeds.

We are STILL required to do good deeds - to obey the commandments of Jesus...
but we now have the ABILITY to obey with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Paul made it very clear in all his writings that the sinful will not go to heaven:

Galatians 5:13-21
13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I
forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.