Who Created God?

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newnature

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We all want certainty, meaning and something solid to stand on, in a world that feels unstable, but what if the confusion comes from how we think about beginnings? Everything we know has an origin, if God made the universe, then surely something must have made God, but there’s a deeper issue hidden inside the question itself. Psalm 90:2, this doesn’t describe God as someone who came into existence, it describes God as already there before anything else existed. When we ask who created God, we’re assuming that everything must have a beginning and a cause. We had a beginning, we were born, we didn’t choose to exist, we were brought into existence. Our minds are wired to think in terms of cause and effect, it’s difficult for us to imagine a being who didn’t need a cause, a being who simply is. A being so powerful, so complete, that he doesn’t depend on anything else for his existence.

Isaiah 40:28, as humans, we tend to think everything must have had a starting point, but here’s the issue with that line of thinking, if everything had a beginning, then eventually we have to ask, what started the beginning? One unavoidable conclusion, something had to exist, without being created in order to start the entire process, but eventually we realize there must be something that didn’t need to be created, something self-existing. The Bible made this claim thousands of years ago, it doesn’t try to explain God’s origin at all, Genesis 1:1, God isn’t introduced as a character who appears, he’s already there, the story starts with him. Creation itself, for God to create the universe, he had to exist outside of it.

Time didn’t always exist, it was created, that means God had to exist outside of time, in order to bring time into existence. Imagine an author writing a book, when we open that book, we don’t find the author living inside the pages. The author exists outside the story, he isn’t limited by the timeline of the plot. In the same way, if reality is like a book, God is the author, not a character bound by the pages. It’s no longer a question about who created God, but rather why does everything point back to an eternal source? We instinctively look for causes, because effects don’t explain themselves and that instance is actually a gift, it helps us understand the world. Everything that begins to exist has a cause and that rule works beautifully within the universe, but the universe itself had a beginning.

If something created God, then that something would need to be eternal, powerful outside time and responsible for all existence, in other words, we’ve just renamed God, that’s why scripture is so direct about this, John 1:3, that statement leaves no room for God being a created being. Everything that exists belongs to the category of created and God stands outside that category entirely and anything that changes or depends on something else, cannot be self-existing. But God doesn’t depend on anything, he simply is, Revelation 1:8, this is a declaration of eternal existence. If God were dependent, he wouldn’t be trustworthy, but the reason we can trust him is because he doesn’t change and doesn’t fade, Isaiah 40:8, God doesn’t age, doesn’t expire and doesn’t fail.

Acts 17:28, our next breath isn’t guaranteed by biology alone, it’s sustained by God’s will, because the deeper truth is this, without an eternal self-existing God, nothing else could exist at all. Here’s the key idea, time itself is part of creation, Genesis 1:1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, that word “beginning” marks the start of time, because before that moment, there was no clock ticking. God didn’t step into time, he created time and if God created time, then he cannot be controlled by it. God’s perspective is infinitely greater, he doesn’t move through time like we do, he sees the whole story at once. That’s why scripture can say God knows the end from the beginning, he’s not predicting, he’s observing from outside the timeline.

God had to exist outside the universe in order to create it, because the universe includes space matter and energy, so whatever caused the universe, cannot be made of space matter or energy. God isn’t a bigger object inside the universe, he’s the reason the universe exists at all. Acts 17:28, God didn’t just create the universe and walk away, he’s actively involved, right now, existence itself is sustained by God. Creation isn’t a machine God wound up and abandoned, Creation is more like a song that continues, because the musician keeps playing. This strips away the illusion that we’re self-sufficient and strangely enough, that’s where peace can begin, because if God is eternal, unchanging and sustaining all things, then our life is not random, our existence is not an accident, were not here by chance.
 

rockytopva

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If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Plasma (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff along with an eternal God

Mass can dissociate into plasma... Plasma can reassociate into mass... In dealing with eternity there could have been trillions of big bangs before what is called the big bang for all we know. There could have been so many big bangs that they were impossible to count.

A Big Bang - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

Another Big Bang - The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

We humans are in the midst of eternity. Our three score and ten leaves little time to do a whole lot of reasoning and calculating. Even so... What could we do with silica sand save make sand castles? God can take that same silicon and make great nations...

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. - John the Baptist

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma

Atoms - Encapsulated forms of energy and light - C2 in the denominator makes for the potential of a lot of energy!
Cells - Trillions of atoms within a single cell
Body - Trillions of cells in a human body

It would take quite the mind to create living organisms out of plasma energy!
 

rockytopva

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It would be nice to have more insight. Our minds are quite small compared to the space of what we would call a big bang.
 

newnature

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It would be nice to have more insight. Our minds are quite small compared to the space of what we would call a big bang.
In verse two of Genesis, we find a description of what we could call the blank canvas that God starts with, the pre-creation state. The earth is formless and empty and that darkness was over the surface of the deep. Deep means deep waters, bottomless waters, these are ways that the ancient biblical authors are describing non-creation, the opposite of order and life. Formless and empty, a little poetic phrase the author uses this Hebrew phrase tohu vavohu, capturing the Israelite vocabulary of what’s going on with tohu vavohu, the land was wild and waste, like a wild desert wasteland, uninhabitable. The blank canvas is like a desolate empty wilderness, but then look at the next phrase, darkness was over the surface of the deep waters, envisioning some sort of cosmic ocean of nothingness and no order, where nothing can hold together in any shape or form, and these are two images to describe the blank canvas with which God begins by breathing his spirit into the emptiness and by speaking his word. Two sets of images have seem like opposites, the desert is a place where there’s no water in life, and the ocean, its place where there’s too much water, but these two images, even though they seem opposites to us, are put right along next to each other in the first page of the Bible, because they’re inviting us in to meditate on something deeper, on what it means for there to be nothing. Then out of that nothingness, where there can be no life and no order, God breathes and God speaks and results in a garden.
 

ScottA

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We all want certainty, meaning and something solid to stand on, in a world that feels unstable, but what if the confusion comes from how we think about beginnings? Everything we know has an origin, if God made the universe, then surely something must have made God, but there’s a deeper issue hidden inside the question itself. Psalm 90:2, this doesn’t describe God as someone who came into existence, it describes God as already there before anything else existed. When we ask who created God, we’re assuming that everything must have a beginning and a cause. We had a beginning, we were born, we didn’t choose to exist, we were brought into existence. Our minds are wired to think in terms of cause and effect, it’s difficult for us to imagine a being who didn’t need a cause, a being who simply is. A being so powerful, so complete, that he doesn’t depend on anything else for his existence.

Isaiah 40:28, as humans, we tend to think everything must have had a starting point, but here’s the issue with that line of thinking, if everything had a beginning, then eventually we have to ask, what started the beginning? One unavoidable conclusion, something had to exist, without being created in order to start the entire process, but eventually we realize there must be something that didn’t need to be created, something self-existing. The Bible made this claim thousands of years ago, it doesn’t try to explain God’s origin at all, Genesis 1:1, God isn’t introduced as a character who appears, he’s already there, the story starts with him. Creation itself, for God to create the universe, he had to exist outside of it.

Time didn’t always exist, it was created, that means God had to exist outside of time, in order to bring time into existence. Imagine an author writing a book, when we open that book, we don’t find the author living inside the pages. The author exists outside the story, he isn’t limited by the timeline of the plot. In the same way, if reality is like a book, God is the author, not a character bound by the pages. It’s no longer a question about who created God, but rather why does everything point back to an eternal source? We instinctively look for causes, because effects don’t explain themselves and that instance is actually a gift, it helps us understand the world. Everything that begins to exist has a cause and that rule works beautifully within the universe, but the universe itself had a beginning.

If something created God, then that something would need to be eternal, powerful outside time and responsible for all existence, in other words, we’ve just renamed God, that’s why scripture is so direct about this, John 1:3, that statement leaves no room for God being a created being. Everything that exists belongs to the category of created and God stands outside that category entirely and anything that changes or depends on something else, cannot be self-existing. But God doesn’t depend on anything, he simply is, Revelation 1:8, this is a declaration of eternal existence. If God were dependent, he wouldn’t be trustworthy, but the reason we can trust him is because he doesn’t change and doesn’t fade, Isaiah 40:8, God doesn’t age, doesn’t expire and doesn’t fail.

Acts 17:28, our next breath isn’t guaranteed by biology alone, it’s sustained by God’s will, because the deeper truth is this, without an eternal self-existing God, nothing else could exist at all. Here’s the key idea, time itself is part of creation, Genesis 1:1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, that word “beginning” marks the start of time, because before that moment, there was no clock ticking. God didn’t step into time, he created time and if God created time, then he cannot be controlled by it. God’s perspective is infinitely greater, he doesn’t move through time like we do, he sees the whole story at once. That’s why scripture can say God knows the end from the beginning, he’s not predicting, he’s observing from outside the timeline.

God had to exist outside the universe in order to create it, because the universe includes space matter and energy, so whatever caused the universe, cannot be made of space matter or energy. God isn’t a bigger object inside the universe, he’s the reason the universe exists at all. Acts 17:28, God didn’t just create the universe and walk away, he’s actively involved, right now, existence itself is sustained by God. Creation isn’t a machine God wound up and abandoned, Creation is more like a song that continues, because the musician keeps playing. This strips away the illusion that we’re self-sufficient and strangely enough, that’s where peace can begin, because if God is eternal, unchanging and sustaining all things, then our life is not random, our existence is not an accident, were not here by chance.
Good thoughts...not limited to the closed circuit of this created world. Very good!

Do you know how Time fits into the greater scheme and plan of God?
 

rockytopva

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God's rebuttal to Job and his fellow wisemen...

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? - Job 38

And to remember that our knowledge is not much in the eyes of God...

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. - 1 Corinthians 3:19

There are a lot of particulars that have happened through the eternities that we will never know. And for us to think we know invites rebuke from God.
 

newnature

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God's rebuttal to Job and his fellow wisemen...

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? - Job 38

And to remember that our knowledge is not much in the eyes of God...

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. - 1 Corinthians 3:19

There are a lot of particulars that have happened through the eternities that we will never know. And for us to think we know invites rebuke from God.
A desert and ocean is something, but the Bible began with God creating out of nothing. The concept of nothing which is almost impossible to imagine and describe, actually has a history beginning with Greek philosophy, but none of that was in the minds of the biblical authors, they didn’t have a concept of nothing. The ocean and the desert were their concepts of nothing, a total void where no life can live, unless the life of heaven is poured out upon it, to bring order and life. Day one is about God speaking into the darkness and penetrates it with his light. God’s own light penetrates the darkness, but God doesn’t eliminate the darkness totally, what God does is contain it, and then make darkness work within a purpose and a rhythm, every one of the days of God working, is marked by evening and there is morning, involving patterns of light and dark.
 

newnature

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Good thoughts...not limited to the closed circuit of this created world. Very good!

Do you know how Time fits into the greater scheme and plan of God?
God’s ultimate destiny for his human creatures is the resurrection of the body. The biblical vision of life beyond the grave and God’s ultimate purpose for his human creatures, the good creation of the God of justice and mercy and resurrection is the point at which God’s creation and God’s justice meet, together those themes affirm that the present world and what humans do in it matters. Resurrection does of course point to the future which God’s people may one day share, but that is not its primary purpose, Jesus’ resurrection is about what Jesus’ whole public career was about, God’s Kingdom arriving however paradoxically on earth as in heaven. The early Christians were much more interested in life after life after death, that is the ultimate resurrection after a period of being bodily dead like Jesus in tomb prior to resurrection and then resurrection itself, there would be a two-stage sequence and it was the final stage which concerned them far more.
 

rockytopva

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A desert and ocean is something, but the Bible began with God creating out of nothing. The concept of nothing which is almost impossible to imagine and describe, actually has a history beginning with Greek philosophy, but none of that was in the minds of the biblical authors, they didn’t have a concept of nothing. The ocean and the desert were their concepts of nothing, a total void where no life can live, unless the life of heaven is poured out upon it, to bring order and life. Day one is about God speaking into the darkness and penetrates it with his light. God’s own light penetrates the darkness, but God doesn’t eliminate the darkness totally, what God does is contain it, and then make darkness work within a purpose and a rhythm, every one of the days of God working, is marked by evening and there is morning, involving patterns of light and dark.
It is not scriptural that God created out of nothing.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1

I believe that as M (Mass) = Plasma (E/c2) that God spoke to the Mass (the earth without form and void, or lacking in the Hebrew) and out of it came plasma energy. From that plasma energy came structure as God spoke it to into existence.
 

rockytopva

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The Bible does not specify that God made the earth out of nothing. That is a man made interpretation. There was heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1. Out of that heaven and earth... Or mass... Was the earth formed by God.
 

newnature

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The Bible does not specify that God made the earth out of nothing. That is a man made interpretation. There was heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1. Out of that heaven and earth... Or mass... Was the earth formed by God.
That’s not the focus of the Bible story, the focus is on how heaven and earth are being reunited through Jesus and will be completely brought together one day when he returns. So, in the book of Revelation, we get this beautiful image of the garden of Eden, now in the form of a city coming to end the age of sin and death, by redeeming all of human history in a renewed creation, and God’s space and human space completely overlap once again.
 

newnature

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It is not scriptural that God created out of nothing.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1

I believe that as M (Mass) = Plasma (E/c2) that God spoke to the Mass (the earth without form and void, or lacking in the Hebrew) and out of it came plasma energy. From that plasma energy came structure as God spoke it to into existence.
On day two, God separates waters above and below, look up at the blue sky, ancient people imagined the world, that water comes down from above and it’s being held up there, white clouds brush up against the face of the blue ceiling becoming dark, filling up with, there’s an ocean of water up there according to the biblical authors, that’s how ancient people imagined the world, water comes down from above, and it’s being held up there. The water’s below, we can go to the driest place on the land, and if we can find the right spot and dig down deep enough, we will hit water under there. Day two is about God separating the waters above and the waters below vertically.
 

rockytopva

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That’s not the focus of the Bible story, the focus is on how heaven and earth are being reunited through Jesus and will be completely brought together one day when he returns. So, in the book of Revelation, we get this beautiful image of the garden of Eden, now in the form of a city coming to end the age of sin and death, by redeeming all of human history in a renewed creation, and God’s space and human space completely overlap once again.

The heaven and earth (M) will return to plasma (E/c2) where God has plans to do something else with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12
 

rockytopva

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Mass (m) = Plasma (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. The universe will soon turn to plasma energy where God will do something else with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12

What will God do with all that plasma? Well... Nobody knows!

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. - 1 Corinthians 2:9
 

rockytopva

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And one more on plasma energy (E/c2)... For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29
 

ScottA

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God’s ultimate destiny for his human creatures is the resurrection of the body. The biblical vision of life beyond the grave and God’s ultimate purpose for his human creatures, the good creation of the God of justice and mercy and resurrection is the point at which God’s creation and God’s justice meet, together those themes affirm that the present world and what humans do in it matters. Resurrection does of course point to the future which God’s people may one day share, but that is not its primary purpose, Jesus’ resurrection is about what Jesus’ whole public career was about, God’s Kingdom arriving however paradoxically on earth as in heaven. The early Christians were much more interested in life after life after death, that is the ultimate resurrection after a period of being bodily dead like Jesus in tomb prior to resurrection and then resurrection itself, there would be a two-stage sequence and it was the final stage which concerned them far more.
Good words for sure!

On a more foundational level, God gave his reason for creation in the beginning, as to divide "the light from the darkness." The mechanics of which are quite interesting: His dividing out a piece or part of that light (the Light of Christ) individually over time to the body of believers, is quite the miracle. It means dividing His eternity incrementally, which he has done over the creation of time--that is--at least the delivery is done over time. Which again is quite the miracle--one of opposites. For "what communion has light with darkness?"

It is rather the revelation [to] the darkness that is the cause--which was and is by the creation of matter. It is form and matter that cause this "shadow of turning" known to this world. Scientifically, matter is caused by light and energy--in this case, the Light of Christ and the Power of God. Which is the making of space, time, and matter. Time and matter are explained in the incremental dividing of eternity by the Light and Power of God. Space then, is the evidence of the divide--that divide guarded by that "flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

The purpose of (time and creation) which, yes, is resurrection--makes that divide eternal, wherein rise "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."
 

newnature

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Good words for sure!

On a more foundational level, God gave his reason for creation in the beginning, as to divide "the light from the darkness." The mechanics of which are quite interesting: His dividing out a piece or part of that light (the Light of Christ) individually over time to the body of believers, is quite the miracle. It means dividing His eternity incrementally, which he has done over the creation of time--that is--at least the delivery is done over time. Which again is quite the miracle--one of opposites. For "what communion has light with darkness?"

It is rather the revelation [to] the darkness that is the cause--which was and is by the creation of matter. It is form and matter that cause this "shadow of turning" known to this world. Scientifically, matter is caused by light and energy--in this case, the Light of Christ and the Power of God. Which is the making of space, time, and matter. Time and matter are explained in the incremental dividing of eternity by the Light and Power of God. Space then, is the evidence of the divide--that divide guarded by that "flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

The purpose of (time and creation) which, yes, is resurrection--makes that divide eternal, wherein rise "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Put creation and justice side-by-side within the present world of sorrow and suffering and sin, what do we have, not the platonic soul picture, where the present world can go to hell or heaven, that simply ignores the goodness of the original creation and of the creator’s intention and the divine longing to put it all right at last. This is the biblical hope, that the God who made the world will put it right. A creation out of the old, that’s what Paul says, the creation itself will be set free from its bondage, when God’s rescues and redemption and reestablishment of the present creation, the biblical message is that the project has begun, when through Jesus, God overthrew the dark powers that have spoiled and corrupted his beautiful world and particularly the beautiful lives of precious image bearing human beings, who were made to be the crown of creation, the agents through whom God would bring his beauty and justice into the world.
 

newnature

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The heaven and earth (M) will return to plasma (E/c2) where God has plans to do something else with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12
Day three is about God separating the land from the waters horizontally. When we get light and then we get water, we plants. Days one through three God creates the globe and then the last thing is all about these plants that just start growing up out of the ground, and specifically fruit plants, plants with fruit that have seed in them, and then they drop their fruit onto the ground, causing itself to exist. God’s the one who is, but once God sets plant life going, it just goes on forever and every plant grows up and then before it dies, it deposits in the ground, its own future self, auto regenerating, this picture of God’s own infinite fountain of life within God’s own self.
 

newnature

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It is not scriptural that God created out of nothing.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1

I believe that as M (Mass) = Plasma (E/c2) that God spoke to the Mass (the earth without form and void, or lacking in the Hebrew) and out of it came plasma energy. From that plasma energy came structure as God spoke it to into existence.
Job 26:7, he stretched out the north over the empty place and hang the earth upon nothing.
 

newnature

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Mass (m) = Plasma (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. The universe will soon turn to plasma energy where God will do something else with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12

What will God do with all that plasma? Well... Nobody knows!

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. - 1 Corinthians 2:9
The Hebrew word for light is “or” and look at the word play in Torah. T”or”ah, let your light shine, we are the embodiment of the Torah.