THE GOSPEL AND HEALING

[Ronald Nolette]

Who do you say the 144k are

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14

King James Version

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14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Thiey are simply 12,000 Jewish men from each of the tribes. No more, no less. You have 0 evidence to prove they are resurrected jews.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Look at this verse again................[Luke 12:32 KJV] "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.".....this little flock church will inherit the kingdom on earth and reign with Christ a thousand years........[Matthew 5:5 KJV] "Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

Wrong it is the tribulation saints who were beheaded and did not take the mark that reign with Jesus.

You also forget that the millennial kingdom is just 1,000 years and then eternity happens. Just because parts of the body of Christ have different functions in the kingdom does not exclude them from the church or the body of Christ which are one and the same.

 

[amigo de christo]

Of course! The Apostles were kind of dense. Jesus told them many times He would be crucified and rise and they still didn't get that either.

But look at Jesus' answer to the Apostles question:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And they started fulfilling that uttermost parts.

Map Showing Where The 12 Apostles of Jesus Christ Went After The Last Super - Brilliant Maps

The map above shows where Jesus's various apostles went after the last super here is a brief summary:

brilliantmaps.com

just as many back then looked to the earthen
many today do .
BUT THE KINGDOM of JESUS was NOT EARTHEN but HEAVENLY .
Its time we preach THAT KINGDOM , THAT JESUS and remind all of the dire and absolute necessity
to BELEIVE ON HIM .
WHEREIN THE TEMPLE IS GOD and THE LAMB , and we are as but tiny stones added in through
beliveing IN THE VERY CHRIST OF GOD CHRIST JESUS .
that was their mission , NOW its ours to the end cometh .
So please bear also with my reminder once more to us all . GET EVERYONE OUTTA anything ecumenical and NOW .

 

[Doug]

The church is the body of Christ! If you cannot see that then we must conclude this talk. It will serve no profit.

Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 4:11-12​

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King James Version​

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11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Correct me if I am wrong here, but are you saying the body of Christ already was in place and God just included the Gentiles? If so, I dont see it that way.

[Ephesians 3:6 KJV] "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"..............I see that the Gentiles who had to go thru Israel was now made a new creature along with Israel to be fellow heirs. The Gentiles would receive the promise of the Spirit of justification thru faith............[Galatians 3:14 KJV] "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

 

[Doug]

The church is the body of Christ!

Yes it is the only church today in this dispensation

 

[Doug]

If it is not stated then what evidence do you propose to show it is some shadowy implication.

You reject church history because it is not verified, why should we accept your theory if it is not to be found stated in Scripture.

I just take what is found in other scriptures and make logical views based on them. I am only presenting a possible idea as to who the 144k are which you can entertain or not. Scripture doesnt tell us who the 144k are, so my speculations are of no value. Just something to consider.

 

[Doug]

Thiey are simply 12,000 Jewish men from each of the tribes. No more, no less. You have 0 evidence to prove they are resurrected jews.

Yes but what does this verse mean?.............[Revelation 14:3 KJV] "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."...........who was redeemed from the earth?. It could also be those who were redeemed out of the tribulation and were raised again...........[Revelation 5:9 KJV] "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"
[Revelation 5:10 KJV] "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.".....they also sang a new song and would be made kings and priests in the kingdom and reign with Christ.

Just examining who the 144k are and not being dogmatic but open to considerations propelled by scriptures

 

[Doug]

Wrong it is the tribulation saints who were beheaded and did not take the mark that reign with Jesus.

Not just them but believing Israel.............
[Revelation 1:5 KJV] "And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
[Revelation 1:6 KJV] "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

 

[Doug]

You also forget that the millennial kingdom is just 1,000 years and then eternity happens. Just because parts of the body of Christ have different functions in the kingdom does not exclude them from the church or the body of Christ which are one and the same.

Sorry but I dont know what you are saying. The body of Christ is in heaven not on the earth

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but are you saying the body of Christ already was in place and God just included the Gentiles? If so, I dont see it that way.

[Ephesians 3:6 KJV] "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"..............I see that the Gentiles who had to go thru Israel was now made a new creature along with Israel to be fellow heirs. The Gentiles would receive the promise of the Spirit of justification thru faith............[Galatians 3:14 KJV] "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

It doesn't matter how you see things. what matters is that Jews and Gentiles are one body in Christ called the church or ekklesia (called out ones).

We are now joint heirs with Israel through Jesus shed blood. The church or body of Christ was born at Pentecost! You would say that saved jews are seperate from teh church and part of the remnant, when Scripture says they are the remnant and found in teh church composed of saved Jew and Gentile.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry but I dont know what you are saying. The body of Christ is in heaven not on the earth

The body of Christ is in heaven and on earth!

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

This was written in present . It does not say that one day you will be part of the body, but we are now members of the body!

Ephesians 1:22-23

King James Version

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22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 2:15-17

King James Version

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15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

There is one body, we call teh church! If Grace Ambassadors is feedin gf you this stuff, you need to flee them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes but what does this verse mean?.............[Revelation 14:3 KJV] "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."...........who was redeemed from the earth?. It could also be those who were redeemed out of the tribulation and were raised again...........[Revelation 5:9 KJV] "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"
[Revelation 5:10 KJV] "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.".....they also sang a new song and would be made kings and priests in the kingdom and reign with Christ.

Just examining who the 144k are and not being dogmatic but open to considerations propelled by scriptures

These Scriptures just tell us what the 144,000 do. YOur could of's are mere opinion and those are things we are forbidden to impose on Scripture.

Those verses mean exactly what they say! It isn't rocket science. If you think that they mean something other than what is written, then I must ask, what do your words mean??????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it is the only church today in this dispensation

And the only church that will exist from Pentecost to the end of the millennial. The church is the body of Christ. We are also now the espoused to Jesus and in heaven before Jesus returns, we become His bride! In eternity, we have no clue what will take place. Teh bible is silent, so we should be!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I just take what is found in other scriptures and make logical views based on them. I am only presenting a possible idea as to who the 144k are which you can entertain or not. Scripture doesnt tell us who the 144k are, so my speculations are of no value. Just something to consider.

Well I encourage you to take this passage seriously:

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The 144,000 are Jewsih virgin men called out of the twelve tribes as is written. Every speculation is fraught with foolishness! Unless we can stronggly back up our speculation with explicit scripture, we should be silent before the Inspired Word of God. Our speculations are fallible and finite.;

 

[Doug]

It doesn't matter how you see things. what matters is that Jews and Gentiles are one body in Christ called the church or ekklesia (called out ones).

In the body of Christ Jew and Gentile are one, but the body of Christ wasnt formed until Paul was saved

 

[Doug]

We are now joint heirs with Israel through Jesus shed blood.

We are joint heirs with Christ NOT Israel...........[Romans 8:17 KJV] "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together."

 

[Doug]

The church or body of Christ was born at Pentecost!

Here is what you said................Sorry, but there is no two churches, one by Peter and the Apostles and one by Paul. Paul added to the church in the Gentile lands. Ephesians 2, the church is Jew and Gentile in one body and that body began at Pentecost. Paul added to teh church not formed it.
Here you are saying there is only one church that consisted of Peter and the twelve and their disciples and Paul added the Gentiles to it.
Here again as above you say the church began at Pentecost.

If the church was started by Christ on earth with Peter and the eleven then how could it be said it started at Pentecost? Wasn't it started before Pentecost by Christ? Didn't Paul just add to it?

 

[Doug]

The church or body of Christ was born at Pentecost!

Are you saying that the church formed by Jesus with Peter and the eleven as the apostles was added to at Pentecost? The body of Christ was formed at Pentecost by which Paul added Gentiles to the existing church and formed a completed body of Jew and Gentiles?

 

[Doug]

There is one body, we call teh church! If Grace Ambassadors is feedin gf you this stuff, you need to flee them.

I never said there wasnt a body of Christ in which Jew and Gentile are one
I am saying that this church the body of Christ wasnt formed until Paul was saved.
The church formed by Christ with the twelve was a different church that faded away after the formation of the body of Christ.
Today there is only the body of Christ.

 

[Doug]

These Scriptures just tell us what the 144,000 do. YOur could of's are mere opinion and those are things we are forbidden to impose on Scripture.

Those verses mean exactly what they say! It isn't rocket science. If you think that they mean something other than what is written, then I must ask, what do your words mean??????

[Revelation 14:3 KJV] "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
[Revelation 14:4 KJV] "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

The last thing I would say is this. The 144k could be Jews from every tribe saved out of the tribulation. All we discussed could be a possibility