Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?
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Well no need to keep going over what you repeatedly state, apart from pointing out your most obvious errors, you state:What i testified to was your personal position of having no excuse for disobedience to God's commandments, seeing they are written in scripture and you carry them around with you everywhere you go.
If obedience to all the commandments was the standard by which we judge another's profession of faith, none of us would pass muster. We have all sinned. The question is not, are you obeying all God's commandments, but do you want to? If you do, I can show you what they are.
As I've said previously, the law hasn't changed. Only where it is. Jesus testified Himself, I haven't come to change the law. In fact, so long as there are stars in the sky and there's ground underneath your feet, the law won't change. Whatever was written, stays written, where ever it is written.
Prove the Holy Spirit changed the law.
Nonsense. You felt uneasy because of something you imagined? Previously you stated this as a fact, that you witnessed sin in a sabbath keeping church in person. Now i don't believe you.
Either you imagined it, or not. Your story is inconsistent.
And you don't want to. I get it.
No. The Bible says clearly and succinctly that justification is by faith, and any and all obedience is a fruit or result of that transaction. Obedience becomes inevitable for those who receive Christ's righteousness.
Jesus said, if you love Me, keep My commandments. I thank God for His holy Spirit that established a relationship with us whereby we can know God and His Son, and hear His voice teaching us the way to life. The first reference to that way is the Lord Himself. His example and His teachings. The holy Spirit reminds us of scripture, and constantly reminds us that God's word represents His will for man, and His word never changes. God Himself never changes. That's why we can trust Him. We can know that the Holy Spirit will never lie to us. The Holy Spirit will never... ever... contradict what is written. Never.
So. When I hear the voice of God whispering in my ear not to go to the left or to the right but remain on the straight path, but I'm that path I can expect to meet obstacles and distractions, and many discordant voices saying go this way or go that way, i will revert to what Peter described as the "sure word of prophecy", for I will not abandon ....
“16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. ”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
In favor of a spirit that teaches contrary to scripture, and placing itself as an authority above the word of God.
‘’If the letter kills and condemns at all, it kills and condemns those who refuse to obey that letter.’’
The letter of thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, but then you state:
‘’If obedience to all the commandments was the standard by which we judge another's profession of faith, none of us would pass muster.’’
But then you say the righteous will obey the TC. That is an absolute and inflexible statement, that is not what you really think going by one of your statements, though it is concerning another(sigh)
Confusion reigns. Let me be crystal clear because this will be my last post to you on the subject. I have been to your denominational church, I know what happens, people keep stressing obey the TC, and especially the fourth one but then they go around flagrantly transgressing those commands in a way I have never witnessed in any church I have ever been to on a Sunday, and Im sure you do to. Its just talk!! You do not practice what you preach:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preachMatt23:2&3
As to my my post to you on this, I IMAGINE it is because you all follow after the law not the Holy Spirit, and the holy spirit is the convictor of sin. Paul said it had to be one or the other(Rom7:6) I sat in a circle at one of the bible studies before the main service, and one overwhelming thought hit me. ''Where is the Holy Spirit'' How can you know the fulness of the Holy Spirit available to you if you make the wrong choice(Rom7:6) you cannot.
You people stress you MUST that's old covenant
You WANT TO is new covenant
And so, in truth you follow an old covenant style religion, because for you, you still have an external law you rely on, whereas, the law is internal now, and it carries far more conviction of sin than an external law ever will, hence what I witnessed in a church I went to on Saturdays. To be fair to you, it is always the same with those who keep repeating you MUST obey the TC, they are, in my experience the most flagrant transgressors of those commands
NO ONE with eyes wide open will judge anothers Christianity by whether they obey the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation. You people never mention Jesus commands in the gospels, just the TC, why? Well, there is no chance of being in ignorance of what they state is there!!
Sin is the transgression of the law
The church did NOT ask gentiles to follow the law concerning avoiding the levitical unclean foods, so if you are correct, gentiles were given a licence to sin. . As you are now making ridiculous excuses to try and justifiy your obvious errors, I will leave this debate, but the Jerusalem council proves you and your denomination cannot be relied upon as to what applicable law is, Paul can be
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom14:5
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. Verse14
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Verse20
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Big Boy Johnson
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The Holy Spirit is actually leading New Testament believers to follow the Law of Christ.
You should get to know the New Testament!
In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!
Interesting comment.
In your opinion...are there ANY legal requirements in the Christian faith?
It seems to me that we are required to keep Holy the Lord's Day.
You say no.
So we could make up our own rules?
We're not supposed to steal.
Is that a requirement?
Who gets to decide?
Is there a difference between a requirement and a legal requirement?
Big Boy Johnson
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The Apostles in the New Testament are recorded as having meetings on the first day of the week...
You want to continually claim they were in error and were being deceived by the devil and not being led of the Lord???
Since Jesus was raised from the dead on the first day of the week, we see in the New Testament scriptures how the Apostles were led by the Lord to hold meetings on Sunday, the first days of the week. They did not call this “sabbath” since Jesus Christ IS our sabbath. They were simply led by the Lord to worship on Sunday.
We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)
Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread
1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him
Under the New Testament with Jesus Christ as our High Priest we are to die to self (Galatians 2:20) and live IN Christ, thru Christ submitting our entire lives everyday of the week to the Lord because HE is our Rest.
Matthew 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The word sabbath only occurs two times in the New Testament epistles. For the believer today, a sabbath rest is described in Hebrews 4:9 as a moment-by-moment rest by believers in the Lord by faith. This reference contains no commandment concerning which day the church should meet for worship.
Those claiming Saturday is the sabbath are going without the rest Jesus has provided for His people.
It's sad to that the Saturday sabbath people falsely claim those that don't observe Saturday sabbath are going to hell. The Saturday sabbath people are teaching heresy
SDA Says Sabbath Breakers Will Be DAMNED
Bear ye one anothers burdens(love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ
Absolutely, Jesus commands are mostly examples of love your fellow man, hence Paul's statement.
Being a slave to sin is not being dominated by sin in your life/not living a wilfully sinfull lifestyle, it is NOT referring to being completely sin free.
Thank you for your advice I need to know the NT better, Im fortunate to have you here to teach me
This is how to grow in holiness.
The believer is called to look away from themselves and to Christ. While you are doing this, you cannot be seeking to wilfully follow after the flesh, it is one or the other. Whilst you are looking to Christ, and trusting him to bring you to live an evermore holy life, via the sanctification of the Spirit, you will transgress the letter of the law for that letter kills(2Cor3:6) But, as long as we are looking to Christ, we will grow in holiness.
The more we look to Christ, and rely on the Spirit, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in our lives(Gal5:22) Against that fruit there is no law(verse23) For that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live your life.
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh Phil3:3
Button
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Has this happened with you when reading some member opinions of the Bible? The remembrance of Matthew 5:19, "Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"
Wouldnt you say ''these commandments'' are the commands Christ is teaching in the beatitudes?
Yes sir...some of these comments certainly do remind me of Matthew 5:19 when Jesus teaches that we are not to teach others to sin - break commandments.
I understand what some mean when they say that we obey God out of love.
I agree with this.
But when it stops there and then they start fiddling with the commandments, I've learned this: .....
Sooner or later they'll state that it's not really necessary to obey the commandments...Jesus died to forgive all our sins.
Or, they'll say that we need do nothing after salvation - in fact, it's a sin to try to help God because our good deeds are as filthy rags.
So now I've become very cautious when I hear that we work out our salvation with ONLY love.
Obedience is necessary.
God does not make requests.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
OK so if a person does NOT start living a holy life... are you saying it's Jesus' fault?
2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Did you not understand that we have a part to play in our own salvation because God gave man free will and it's our responsibility to CHOOSE to submit to the Lord rather than choosing to walk after the flesh?
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
We are to submit to the Holy Spirit's leading Who always leads us to God's Word which is the power that enables us to be free
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Standing on God's promises (believing them, speaking them, thinking them, acting on them) is what empowers us thru the Holy Spirit to be a partaker of GOD'S DIVINE NATURE
This is where the reformed theology people get over in to heresy as they have been false taught that God does everything and we have no part to play in walking with the Lord.
John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
Great point !
Often missed.
Some put all the onus on Jesus,,,as if we do not have free will....
as if we need do nothing.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Yep they put lots and lots of lip stick on the swine teaching so they can have an excuse to live in sin.
After all some claim, "the Lord hasn't taken the booze drinking from me yet so I'm going to drink up" which they apply to all the other works of the flesh they may be in to.
Then they claim God made them to be a sinner when He put them in the womb as though it's God's fault they are sinners
That's one of the lies the calvinists love to spread all around.
Yes sir.
You don't have to convince me.
Calvinism teaches doctrine that is nowhere to be found in the NT.
Or the OT.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Yep and it's hard to not mess with them over their false doctrine.
It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it.
No, it would be the persons fault for not looking to Christ and trusting him, letting himself be distracted from what he should be doing. If you are looking to Christ and trusting him, you cannot at the same time be seeking to fulfill the desires of the flesh, it is one or the other
Paul Christensen
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You may need to do a serious reading of the Book of Hebrews to see how the Sabbath fits into the Christian life. Especially the part where our rest in Christ through He being our Great High Priest is what the Saturday Sabbath pointed to. Once we enter our rest in Christ, we no longer need to observe the Sabbath, because it has been fulfilled in Christ. If there is insistence on following the Saturday Sabbath as a rule of law, then there is no acknowledgment in the person that they have entered into their rest in Christ. Can't have Christ and the Law at the same time.
When one enters into their rest in Christ, they no longer kill, steal, lie, blaspheme or look at people with lust. They no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh, but have the fruit of the Spirit in them.
BTW
As you said I should get to know the NT, can you help me out with the following:
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal217&18
A person is justified in Christ instantly at conversion. The justification Paul is writing about in the above clearly takes time to achieve, what justification is he writing about?
Why does Paul ask the question: ‘’Doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin?’
And what does Paul mean when he states:
18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
Thanks
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