Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[LoveYeshua]

Paul obviously thought so. He referred to them as the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. But he was not in ignorance as to what that letter demanded

Paul was refering to the law of moses , he even quoted the ten commandments.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I reposted the whole post to you, Im not going to do it again

that is what i thought you falsely accuse me.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul was refering to the law of moses , he even quoted the ten commandments.

Your saying when Paul made the statement the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation he was not referring in that statement to the TC?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul was refering to the law of moses , he even quoted the ten commandments.

for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

​

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, WHICH WAS ENGRAVED IN LETTERS ON STONE came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul was refering to the law of moses , he even quoted the ten commandments.

You need to join a church or synagogue, take your pick

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul was refering to the law of moses , he even quoted the ten commandments.

FYI, Paul gave an example as to why he had to die to the law as he put it, the example given was one of the TC, he could not obey it, for he could not obey the law relating to the inner man, the law no one but he and God need know he broke

 

[Grailhunter]

Yahweh and Yeshua are the same.
If we sin against Yeshua, we're sinning against God.
This statement is made because of the misunderstanding of the Trinity.
If we don't get all of theology correct...then we won't fully understand it.

The 613 laws have not all been abloshed.
Ten remain.
The Moral Law will never be abolished because Jesus spoke to it and He maintained it.

What was abolished were the LAWS of Moses.
When Jesus forgave the adulterous woman....
He was stating that the LAW of stoning her was abolished.

But Jesus also made the MORAL Law more stringent, not less.
He taught that we had to obey it WITH THE HEART....
not just obey it.

Following rules will get no one saved...
but following and obeying Jesus will.

What is grace?
It's just God's mercy toward us which cannot be earned.
He will have mercy on everyone that loves and follows His Son.

I read a book on grace many years ago.
It doesn't seem to complicated to me.....
it's simply the love God shows toward His human creation.

But God is also JUST.
And will give to us what we deserve.


Romans 2:5-6
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

I am not going to debate you because I know how you believe and I do not want to upset you.
The false belief regarding the one God thing is a very common.
And if I have not convinced you yet, I am not going to convince you.
So Happy New Year and the best to you and yours.

 

[LoveYeshua]

FYI, Paul gave an example as to why he had to die to the law as he put it, the example given was one of the TC, he could not obey it, for he could not obey the law relating to the inner man, the law no one but he and God need know he broke

it must have been very difficult for Paul who was a pharisee taught by the best of that time , Gamaliel , to abandon all be believed, very difficult indeed he had to die from all these Laws and additions to these and be renewed. He did not understand until the Holy Spirit was bestowed upon him.

 

[saved by grace 101]

it must have been very difficult for Paul who was a pharisee taught by the best of that time , Gamaliel , to abandon all be believed, very difficult indeed he had to die from all these Laws and additions to these and be renewed. He did not understand until the Holy Spirit was bestowed upon him.

The power of sin is the law/the legally binding law with the power to condemn 1Cor15:56
Hence: sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
Hence: For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14
However, if you tell someone : ''They MUST obey the TC'' you place them back under righteousness of obeying the law.

 

[saved by grace 101]

it must have been very difficult for Paul who was a pharisee taught by the best of that time , Gamaliel , to abandon all be believed, very difficult indeed he had to die from all these Laws and additions to these and be renewed. He did not understand until the Holy Spirit was bestowed upon him.

We rely on the Holy Spirit to bring us understanding of what is written, and that is especially true of Paul's message.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course they must, every human being must, and that’s why they’re in trouble and in need of salvation. Man, merely by creation, is obliged to obedience unto God, his Creator.

Being “lost” is the sad consequence of disobedience unto God. We’re lost because of sin, which is disobedience unto God. And so, if we are lost because of our disobedience, that implies that we owe obedience. Since if we were obedient, we would not have been lost in the first place.

Absolutely the Greek word believe and unbelief does contain within it the idea of obedience.
Disbelieve means to disobey.

But this does bring up the question:
Do we need to believe IN God in order to be saved? (have faith).
Or is obeying His commandments enough?


Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

 

[Shalomhalom]

But this does bring up the question:
Do we need to believe IN God in order to be saved? (have faith).
Or is obeying His commandments enough?

Real obedience, which is the one accepted with God, springs from faith. You quoted a text, here or some others:

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. (1. Tim 1:5)

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (Gal 5:6)

True faith, the one described in the Bible, the one that saves, always brings forth works. Another faith doesn’t save, as James says. It is a “working”, “living” faith, so to say, which brings forth fruits of obedience.

Absolutely the Greek word believe and unbelief does contain within it the idea of obedience.
Disbelieve means to disobey.

I would rather say true and spiritual obedience includes faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not going to debate you because I know how you believe and I do not want to upset you.
The false belief regarding the one God thing is a very common.
And if I have not convinced you yet, I am not going to convince you.
So Happy New Year and the best to you and yours.

A girl could feel discarded !
I don't get upset. Some Christians do not believe in the Trinity/Godhead.
We could always discuss.
No problem here.

But this thread is not about the Trinity.
My comment is that Jesus is God...thus Yahweh....
And God must be obeyed.
Some hate that word MUST....but must it is.



How do we know that Jesus is Yahweh?

Like this:

Isaiah 44:6
6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides * Me.

Isaiah is referring to the One and Only God.
God is the first and the last.
And there is no one like Him.
There is only One God.


In Revelation we find that JESUS is referred to as the First and the Last
THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA....


Revelation 1:5-8
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood -
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."



Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done *.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last,


Jesus is the one returning...bringing with Him our reward.
John 5:28-29

 

[GodsGrace]

Real obedience, which is the one accepted with God, springs from faith. You quoted a text, here or some others:

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. (1. Tim 1:5)

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (Gal 5:6)

True faith, the one described in the Bible, the one that saves, always brings forth works. Another faith doesn’t save, as James says. It is a “working”, “living” faith, so to say, which brings forth fruits of obedience.



I would rather say true and spiritual obedience includes faith.

Agreed totally.
And very well said.

 

[GodsGrace]

You made the following comments in another thread:
‘’We are to keep all His commandments---which He narrowed down to the Two Great Commandments...

and, we are to keep the Moral Law which would be the 10 Commandments.’’



Jesus left us with COMMANDMENTS,,,,we are to follow those commandments.

The Moral Law must be followed too.
That would be the Ten Commandments.''

Yes sir.
I wrote the above.

How does your statements fit in with what Paul wrote:
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another,

Very simple to explain:
Romans 7:4.....
We died to the Law...to one husband...
so that we could belong to someone else...a different husband.

The new husband is Jesus.
We belong to Him when we believe IN Him.
Does this mean we are no longer required to obey Him?
MAY IT NEVER BE!


Romans 7:12-13
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be!

to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Romans 7:4
Your verse...it states we are to bear fruit for God.
Jesus said that if we do not bear fruit...we will be cut off.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


If we do not obey,
we will be cut off.

5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

Romans 7:5


When we followed the Law....we did not have God's commandments in our heart.
Man tried to et away with what he could.
The Law just made us aware of sin, but it could not CHANGE US and we do need to be changed.


Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6

Romans 7:6

We are freed from having to obey by our own power...
we are freed to obey out of love for Jesus.
We're free to live a life of freedom to serve God in love.

And BTW, if you say Paul's words do not refer to the TC I can quickly show you they do
So, Ive given you scripture, but I still don't expect a reply

Let's also move on to:

Romans 7:7
7 So what are we going to say? That the Law is sin? Absolutely not! But I wouldn't have known sin except through the Law. I wouldn't have known the desire for what others have if the Law had not said, Don't desire to take what others have.

The Law served to let man know about sin.
We need to know the rules before we can obey them - yes, even out of love.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
I wrote the above.



Very simple to explain:
Romans 7:4.....
We died to the Law...to one husband...
so that we could belong to someone else...a different husband.

The new husband is Jesus.
We belong to Him when we believe IN Him.
Does this mean we are no longer required to obey Him?
MAY IT NEVER BE!


Romans 7:12-13
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be!



Romans 7:4
Your verse...it states we are to bear fruit for God.
Jesus said that if we do not bear fruit...we will be cut off.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


If we do not obey,
we will be cut off.


Romans 7:5


When we followed the Law....we did not have God's commandments in our heart.
Man tried to et away with what he could.
The Law just made us aware of sin, but it could not CHANGE US and we do need to be changed.


Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.



Romans 7:6

We are freed from having to obey by our own power...
we are freed to obey out of love for Jesus.
We're free to live a life of freedom to serve God in love.

Let's also move on to:

Romans 7:7
7 So what are we going to say? That the Law is sin? Absolutely not! But I wouldn't have known sin except through the Law. I wouldn't have known the desire for what others have if the Law had not said, Don't desire to take what others have.

The Law served to let man know about sin.
We need to know the rules before we can obey them - yes, even out of love.

Yes Paul is quite explicit, we die to the law in order to bear fruit for God, we are released from it and serve in the new way of the Spirit not the old way of the written code law.
Yet you say: We MUST obey the TC, that doesn't gel with what Paul wrote. And what you really mean is, we must obey a watered down version of the TC, for Paul termed that law the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. Only problem is, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, it would be the persons fault for not looking to Christ and trusting him, letting himself be distracted from what he should be doing. If you are looking to Christ and trusting him

OK so you do admit then that God does not do everything as some claim and you admit mankind does have some responsibility concerning his salvation than?

That is a dramatic departure from what the false teachers claim as they say we have no part to play in our salvation at all other than rewards

Now, the false teachers will be coming after you claiming you subscribe to works based salvation

A person is justified in Christ instantly at conversion.

Which is only applicable to those that abide in Christ bearing fruit. (see Jesus' teaching in John 15)

You just stated in the previous post if a person "distracted from what he should be doing. If you are looking to Christ and trusting him" then they are at fault for falling away from the Lord.

Are you now reverting to the message of the false teachers claiming one can turn away from the Lord no longer abiding in Him and still be saved? Kinda sounds like you are.

And what does Paul mean when he states:

18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

He's saying if he turn s way from the Lord and goes back to living in sin he'd be lost

The Lord is the One Who led Paul what to write and the Lord does not teach once save always saved.

The false teachers are actually advocating for living in sin and claiming to still be saved whether they realize it or not.

How do YOU know how anyone feels when they trangress the law?

Which law are you referring to?

The OT law given under Moses or the Law of Christ given under the Lordship of Jesus in the New Testament?

The reply does not require a statement of several sentences.

Actually it most cases it does because the false teachers like to try and trick people in to giving a yes or no response when a question cannot be answered in that format.

They get this from the liberal baby killin perverts who are trying to turn our nation in to a communist state and they got it from their daddy the devil.

 

[Grailhunter]

A girl could feel discarded !
I don't get upset. Some Christians do not believe in the Trinity/Godhead.
We could always discuss.
No problem here.

But this thread is not about the Trinity.
My comment is that Jesus is God...thus Yahweh....
And God must be obeyed.
Some hate that word MUST....but must it is.



How do we know that Jesus is Yahweh?

Like this:

Isaiah 44:6
6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides * Me.

Isaiah is referring to the One and Only God.
God is the first and the last.
And there is no one like Him.
There is only One God.


In Revelation we find that JESUS is referred to as the First and the Last
THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA....


Revelation 1:5-8
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood -
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."



Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done *.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last,


Jesus is the one returning...bringing with Him our reward.
John 5:28-29

I know your beliefs.
Yahweh was the only God in the Old Testament......Then He had a Son! Later He said that He was pleased with Him.....Then later Yeshua said that Yahweh was greater than Him.....Then Later Yeshua said He did not do His will but the will of Yahweh.....Then later Yeshua prayed to Yahweh....Then later Yeshua said that Yahweh was His God.
Over 50 MY father scriptures.

The belief of the construct of the Trinty or Godhead is not a salvation thing, or a contingent of whether a person is or is not a Christ, that is why I am OK with people believing different things about it.

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
I wrote the above.



Very simple to explain:
Romans 7:4.....
We died to the Law...to one husband...
so that we could belong to someone else...a different husband.

The new husband is Jesus.
We belong to Him when we believe IN Him.
Does this mean we are no longer required to obey Him?
MAY IT NEVER BE!


Romans 7:12-13
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be!



Romans 7:4
Your verse...it states we are to bear fruit for God.
Jesus said that if we do not bear fruit...we will be cut off.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


If we do not obey,
we will be cut off.


Romans 7:5


When we followed the Law....we did not have God's commandments in our heart.
Man tried to et away with what he could.
The Law just made us aware of sin, but it could not CHANGE US and we do need to be changed.


Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.



Romans 7:6

We are freed from having to obey by our own power...
we are freed to obey out of love for Jesus.
We're free to live a life of freedom to serve God in love.

Let's also move on to:

Romans 7:7
7 So what are we going to say? That the Law is sin? Absolutely not! But I wouldn't have known sin except through the Law. I wouldn't have known the desire for what others have if the Law had not said, Don't desire to take what others have.

The Law served to let man know about sin.
We need to know the rules before we can obey them - yes, even out of love.

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

So, you say to me:

‘’You MUST obey the TC’’

I say to you

‘What happens if I don’t obey them?’

You respond to me:

‘Then you cannot be in a saved/justified state’’ Nothing else you can say is there!

So, if I believe you, I am now back under the law/righteousness of obeying the law. I can only be in a righteous/justified state if I obey the TC

Now the reason Paul keeps stressing you cannot be justified by obeying the law is because of the TC

Now remember, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible, only the true version.

So you have told me, I can only be justified before God if I obey what Paul terms the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation

Therefore, to remain justified:
I must not dwell on any impure thought

I must never put anything before God in my life

I must not tell any even little fib about another

I must not erect any graven image in my mind

I must not desire anything of my neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household.
Just a few examples

Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey the TC or stand guilty before them

And, the power of sin is now in my life for I am living under the law

You knew all this-right?

 

[saved by grace 101]

OK so you do admit then that God does not do everything as some claim and you admit mankind does have some responsibility concerning his salvation than?

That is a dramatic departure from what the false teachers claim as they say we have no part to play in our salvation at all other than rewards

Now, the false teachers will be coming after you claiming you subscribe to works based salvation View attachment 77640





Which is only applicable to those that abide in Christ bearing fruit. (see Jesus' teaching in John 15)

You just stated in the previous post if a person "distracted from what he should be doing. If you are looking to Christ and trusting him" then they are at fault for falling away from the Lord.

Are you now reverting to the message of the false teachers claiming one can turn away from the Lord no longer abiding in Him and still be saved? Kinda sounds like you are.





He's saying if he turn s way from the Lord and goes back to living in sin he'd be lost

The Lord is the One Who led Paul what to write and the Lord does not teach once save always saved.

The false teachers are actually advocating for living in sin and claiming to still be saved whether they realize it or not.






Which law are you referring to?

The OT law given under Moses or the Law of Christ given under the Lordship of Jesus in the New Testament?




Actually it most cases it does because the false teachers like to try and trick people in to giving a yes or no response when a question cannot be answered in that format.

They get this from the liberal baby killin perverts who are trying to turn our nation in to a communist state and they got it from their daddy the devil.

You didnt tell me what justification Paul was writing about, for it was one that clearly takes time to achieve, justification is instantaneous at the point of conversion
You didn't tell me why Paul stated: Does Christ promote sin?
Your explanation for the last question was wrong