[1Pe 5:13 KJV] 13 The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son.
I said Peter, not Paul.
Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?
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I said Peter, not Paul.
But you misquoted me and avoided talking about the Latin and/or Greek for "made" in the creed intentionally. I have plenty of time.
@GodsGrace
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο· With whom, of/from all, he was not begun.
Was that so hard? This statement has little meaning, except to say him not to be human.
Edit: It seems unusual for the Greek negative to be used postpositively. And my translation is wrong. It actually, "with which, from all, he begins." Whatever that means.
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο· With whom, of/from all, he was not begun.
Was that so hard? This statement has little meaning, except to say him not to be human.
Edit: It seems unusual for the Greek negative to be used postpositively. And my translation is wrong. It actually, "with which, from all, he begins." Whatever that means.
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Maybe YOU have plenty of time, but I don'tBut you misquoted me and avoided talking about the Latin and/or Greek for "made" in the creed intentionally. I have plenty of time.
WHERE did I misquote you?
Why should I care what the Greek word for MADE is?
We were discussing PAUL not Peter.
We were discussing the word BEGET not the word made.
YOU said Acts shows that Paul was NOT killed in Rome.
I asked for proof from the book of Acts which is where you apparently believe history ends.
EXCEPT that you DO NOT believe history ends when it comes to one of the Apostles dying in a foreign country.
For what YOU believe, you make an exception.....I was discussing PAUL,,,guess you weren't.
YOU would like to discuss the word MADE
but I'M discussing the word BEGOTTEN.
Be back later if you wish to correct what the discussion was about.
Since I have no idea what you're referring to,,,
I have no comment.
BTW, the NT was already translated and will not be needing any help from neither you nor me.
It needs help, and it needs more than James White. But it is clear that Peter was the father of the gospel author Mark, and that Paul was not charged or beheaded.
I was discussing Paul:
If you're ever in Rome, you could visit the Mamertine Prison where Paul spent two years
and also the church that was built upon the location of his execution.
Was Paul Beheaded in Rome?
Is the traditional account of the beheading of Paul in Rome correct? Sean examines the historical evidence for this commonly believed tradition.
seanmcdowell.org
The Execution of Paul – Drive Thru History
Following his release at the end of his two-year imprisonment in Rome, Paul had a brief period of freedom where he continued to preach, teach, and encourage the churches around the Mediterranean region. Between 62 and 65 AD, Paul seems to have brought the Gospel to Spain, which was his stated...
drivethruhistory.com
And the Father creates through the Son.
You are aware that you've changed the topic?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Different perspectives and meanings in time periods.
In the Old Testament Yahweh sold His people into the hands of their enemies five times.
Slavery in the Old Testament....redemptions was a big deal but it was physical like in Ruth.
Saved and salvation was about saving lives.
In the New Testament it was all about the spiritual.
The whole thing about Yeshua being in the Old Testament is vague at best. People shifting through Old Testament find tid bits of vague evidence.
Yahweh nor anyone refers to a God that was the Son of God.
The Passover lamb in the Old Testament was physically a sheep or goat. In the New Testament Yeshua was symbolically a sheep, He was not an animal.
The prophets were not looking for another God and they believed the Messiah would be human warlord king that would conquer their oppressors in the terrible day of the Lord. The terrible day of the Lord did not occur with the Messiah.
Which brings up a topic that some Christians do not like. Most of the actual Old Testament messianic prophecies did not come true. And the vast majority of the Apostles thought they were living in the last days, not months, not years, not centuries....they were wrong.
Yeshua arrived by the impregnation of a woman that was betrothed. That was considered adultery in the Mosaic Law and both should die and the offspring would be a disgrace.....no prophecy for that. As far as a descent of King David.....that could only be Miriam...no prophecy for that. What they got was a God....the Son of God....No prophecy for the Messiah being the Son of God....a God. They were expecting for Elijah to arrive in a fiery chariot to identify and announce the Messiah to the Jewish nation.....That did not happen. They did not get a warlord, no action against the Romans and eventually offered the Romans salvation. Fearing God gave way to loving God. Forgiveness becomes the foundation from Yeshua and for one another for Christianity. The reward went from the Jews ruling the world to eternity in Heaven.
The prophecies got all this wrong that is the primary reason the Jews rejected Yeshua and are still looking the Messiah to come. The Apostles were Jews and wanted very much for their people to be saved. So they tried to find connections between the Old Testament and then. But the Jew really did not know what saved meant......to them saved meant being freed from their oppressors and ruling the world and the Mosaic Law and the sacrifices would go on forever. At this time, as today they did not believe in a devil or Hell and believed Heaven was for Yahweh and Angels only. Judaism was/is a very physical religion.
The message that Yeshua gave was completely alien to them. Too shocking to understand or comprehend, at times it even shocked His Apostles. From our perspective something like this would seem like science fiction. For the Messiah to arrive and be identified as a God would be sacrilegious to them. It is little wonder that the Jews rejected Him then and know.
My best guess is that something(s) happened during the 400 years between the testaments. It probable involved Satan but not just Him, but also the appearance of the Deity we call the Holy Spirit.
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Yes, sorry, but I was surprised by where it lead. A major mistranslation of the creed into English. Amazing how this hasn't been spotted before. Back to the 10 commandments, eh?
Salvation has different meanings ALSO in the NT.
Are we not saved from a meaningless life?
What about the harms of drugs?
Social chaos?
In the NT it also has physical AND spiritual meaning.
I wouldn't classify it as persons "sifting through" the OT to come up with vague types or meaning or even identifying the Person of Jesus.
It is the NT writers THEMSELVES that refer to the OT in reference to Jesus.
THEY saw in HIM what the OT writers were writing about...
or were waiting for....
maybe the PROMISE
or maybe the SAVIOR (in whatever sense).
I wouldn't say the scriptures offered by the Apostles were vague but specific and purposeful.
Stephen was stoned for what he said. (not that he was an Apostle).
Acts 7:56-57
56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But crying out with a loud voice, they covered their ears and rushed at him with one accord. 58 And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him;
When was Stephen stoned?
When he declared Jesus to be the Son of Man...
because the Jews understood what this meant....
That does not deny the fact that many Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah AND God.
The very writers of the NT state this.
We all know they were waiting for a conquering King.
Next time around...
Because it wasn't accepted as a disgrace!
And the virgin will bear a child...
another prophecy fulfilled.
Agreed.
But what about the SUFFERING SERVANT?
We have to take all of the bible into consideration for our theology.
Correct.
But He did come as God.
Thus the tearing of the robes.
Thus the blasphemy.
Thus the declarations that Jesus is God.
Not sure what you mean by the appearance of the deity we call the Holy Spirit...
but must leave for a while.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Of course...
The sacrifice of Christ saved us spiritually.
But the Way includes a philosophy for living that makes our lives better.
The Trinity did not define sin and tell us to avoid it so we would not enjoy life.... Avoiding sin improves life.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
They were doing the same thing because they wanted the Jews to accept Yeshua, so they were wanting to establish a connection. Then again notice they do not bring up the point that the prophecies indicated that the Messiah would be human and take out their oppressors.
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