IF THERE IS JUST ONE CHURCH THEN WHO GETS HEAVEN?

[Doug]

you keep holding on to that.. and i will hold on to all scripture...

I gave you scripture to support what I say what scripture refutes it?

Here is what I said.............Most of the four gospels were Christ teaching Israel and the disciples to be prepared for the coming millennial kingdom and do not apply to us because only Israel would reign with Christ in the kingdom. ...............[Revelation 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."...............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests............[Exodus 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

Here are examples of Christ preparing Israel for their coming heavenly kingdom which is the Davidic earthly kingdom. Here is a verse to support me saying the heavenly kingdom is the earthly kingdom.............[Acts 1:6 KJV] "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"..........they were asking if Jesus would restore the Davidic kingdom on earth
Some examples...............The kingdom of heaven is the prophetic promised Davidic earthly kingdom..................
[Matthew 5:3 KJV] "Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:10 KJV] "Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:19 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:20 KJV] "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 13:24 KJV] "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:"
[Matthew 13:31 KJV] "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:"

 

[Marvelloustime]

Oh what was given first unto the jews was later given unto the gentiles .
FOr other sheep i have which are not of this fold and them must I BRING also .
AND THEY WILL BE ONE FOLD and ONE SHEPARD .
and PAUL actually confirms that big time in his letters .
FOR HE has broken down the middle wall between us
OH YES a great and marvelous mystery of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST himself .
WHO was before the world was or anything created was created .
and by HIM were all things seen or unseen created .
ONE FOLD OF GOD ALL MIGHTY
which is THE FOLD OF JESUS CHRIST
Which are all , whether jewish born or gentile born, WHO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all .

@amigo de christo

 

[bdavidc]

[Ephesians 1:10 KJV] "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:"..............God will gather all that is IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH which means there is a group in heaven (the body of Christ) and a group on earth (believing Israel). God will reconcile heaven and earth to himself...................[Colossians 1:20 KJV] "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven."

Your conclusion does not come from the text. You are inserting a split that Scripture never makes. Ephesians 1:10 does not say God will keep two redeemed peoples forever separated. It says God will gather together in one all things in Christ, both in heaven and on earth. The phrase “in one” is the key. The Greek word is anakephalaiōsasthai, meaning to sum up, unite under one head. The verse is about unity in Christ, not permanent division of destinies. Paul’s point is reconciliation and unification, not segregation.

Colossians 1:20 says the same thing. God reconciles all things to Himself through the blood of the cross, whether things on earth or things in heaven. That does not define two redeemed groups with different futures. It defines the scope of reconciliation. Sin affected heaven and earth. Christ’s cross reconciles heaven and earth. The verse explains extent, not structure.

Scripture is explicit that believing Jews and believing Gentiles are not two bodies. Paul says Christ “hath made both one” and “hath broken down the middle wall of partition” so that He might make “in himself of twain one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. He then says both have access by one Spirit unto the Father ~Ephesians 2:18. There is no future re-division after Christ has already made one body.

Paul is clear again in Romans 8:19–21 that the creation itself will be delivered from corruption into the liberty of the children of God. One redeemed people. One renewed creation. Not one people stuck in heaven and another left behind on earth.

Revelation seals this beyond debate. John does not see eternal separation. He sees “the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven” and hears, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them” ~Revelation 21:2–3. Heaven comes down. God dwells with His people. The dwelling place is unified.

Scripture never teaches a permanently heavenly body of Christ and a permanently earthly believing Israel. That system has to be imported. The Bible says one flock, one Shepherd ~John 10:16. One body ~Ephesians 4:4. One inheritance ~Ephesians 1:11. One consummation in Christ. If the Word says “one,” we do not divide it.

 

[Marvelloustime]

For this cause came i into the world and for this reason was i born
TO TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH
ALL who are of THE TRUTH come to ME . and a st ranger , yoo hoo , THEY NO FOLLOW that one .
As i am sure you know that my friend . SHEEP embrace TRUTH , not lies . And every,
and i do mean EVERY , WORD O GOD is TRUTH
from page one to page last in that bible , THAT BE INSPIRED OF GOD and is our meat . Sheep love truth
for GOD has given them THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH and that SPIRIT has SHED the LOVE OF GOD upon their hearts .
TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .
LET GOD be TRUE but every man a liar . TRUST THOU IN HIS WORDS and heed none who twist such words .
For they do so unto their own destruction and the destruction of all who heed and beleived them and their twisted doctrine .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

HIS words should have been what was written in the four gospels , the very words of THE TRUE
CHRIST JESUS that were recorded for us , ARE FOR us .
For every WORD OF GOD is TRUTH and CHRIST JESUS IS THE WORD O GOD become flesh
and His words are our meat . FOR EVERY WORD of GOD is meat for the sheep
and the scriptures are INSPIRED BY GOD and are PROFITABLE
for DOCTRINE , for correction , for instruction in righteousness , that the man of GOD may
be throughly furnished unto all good works .
Many pick and choose and they will find out , LEST THEY REPENT , it was unto their own destruction .
SHEEP do not pick and c hoose what to believe about JESUS and what to omit about JESUS
SHEEP beleive TRUTH and EVERY WORD OF GOD , THUS EVERY WORD OF CHRIST
IS OUR MEAT and IS TRUTH .
TO the trenches one and all .

@amigo de christo

 

[Doug]

Most of the four gospels were Christ teaching Israel and the disciples to be prepared for the coming millennial kingdom and do not apply to us------ then rip that part out of your bible --problem ssolved

All scripture is profitable..............[2 Timothy 3:16 KJV] "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

 

[Doug]

FOr other sheep i have which are not of this fold and them must I BRING also .
AND THEY WILL BE ONE FOLD and ONE SHEPARD .

Jesus wasnt talking about Gentiles, he was talking about the believing remnant of Israel that were scatterd outside of Jerusalem into other countries...............
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;"
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

[Ezekiel 37:22 KJV] "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"...............There will be ONE FOLD when Christ joins the two kingdoms of Israel into ONE

 

[bdavidc]

[Ephesians 1:10 KJV] "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:"..............God will gather all that is IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH which means there is a group in heaven (the body of Christ) and a group on earth (believing Israel). God will reconcile heaven and earth to himself...................[Colossians 1:20 KJV] "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven."

This teaching has already been corrected from Scripture. The cited passages speak of unity and reconciliation in Christ, not two redeemed peoples with separate destinies. Scripture is clear that God has made one body and one people in Christ ~Ephesians 2:14–16; ~Ephesians 4:4. This will not be re-argued.

 

[Doug]

The so called “mystery” revealed to Paul was not a new church with a new destiny. The mystery was that Gentiles are “fellowheirs, and of the same body” ~Ephesians 3:6. Same body means same body. Colossians 1:27 does not say Christ in Gentiles only. It says Christ in you, the hope of glory. That is true of every believer or none at all.

[Ephesians 2:15 KJV] "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;"
[Ephesians 2:16 KJV] "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"............Christ made Jew and Gentile one in his body. They are both one in the same body not each in a different body.

 

[Doug]

Jesus did not come to build a Jewish church that failed so God had to invent a Gentile one later

[Romans 11:30 KJV] "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:"
[Romans 11:32 KJV] "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.".....................BOTH Israel and Gentiles were in unbelief

[Acts 13:46 KJV] "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."......................Israel wouldnt repent and receive Christ so Paul turned to the Gentiles

 

[bdavidc]

He was looking for the heavenly Jerusalem come down to earth.........[Revelation 21:2 KJV] "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

That reply does not correct the point. It sidesteps it. Hebrews does not say Abraham merely expected something heavenly to pass through on its way to earth. It says he desired “a better country, that is, an heavenly” and that God “hath prepared for them a city” ~Hebrews 11:16. The text defines the hope as heavenly in origin and character, not land-bound in limitation. That directly contradicts the claim of an earth-only promise.

Revelation 21:2 does not rescue that claim. The New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven proves the opposite of what you are arguing. It shows heaven and earth united, not Israel restricted to earth while others remain in heaven. The very next verse says, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them” ~Revelation 21:3. One dwelling. One people. One fulfillment.

Abraham’s hope was never dirt alone, and Scripture says so plainly. Appealing to Revelation 21 does not undo Hebrews 11. It confirms it.

 

[Doug]

Acts 7:38 uses the word “church” for Israel in the wilderness because the word means assembly. It does not redefine Israel as a separate salvific body with a different destiny.

Church means church
When Jesus said he will build his church didnt church mean church there?

 

[Doug]

Ephesians 5:32 does not say the church did not exist before Paul. It says the meaning of Christ’s union with His people, pictured in marriage, was not fully revealed. A mystery in Scripture is something previously hidden, not something previously nonexistent. Paul never says Christ had no body until his ministry. That claim is being read into the text, not drawn from it.

I wasnt saying that Ephes 5:32 meant there wasnt a church til then. The mystery revealed that marriage pictured the relationship with Christ and the church..........[Ephesians 5:23 KJV] "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."........Christ didnt reveal this relationship to the twelve.

 

[Doug]

Ephesians 5:32 does not say the church did not exist before Paul. It says the meaning of Christ’s union with His people, pictured in marriage, was not fully revealed. A mystery in Scripture is something previously hidden, not something previously nonexistent. Paul never says Christ had no body until his ministry. That claim is being read into the text, not drawn from it.

I thought a bit about marriage in scripture.
God did say he was Israel's husband.......
[Jeremiah 31:31 KJV] "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"
[Jeremiah 31:32 KJV] "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:".............also in this passage the view of this marriage relationship was covenantal. When Israel committed adultery, he divorced her.................[Jeremiah 3:8 KJV] "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."

Israel's church didnt know about the church being one in Christ and members of his body

 

[Doug]

Your conclusion does not come from the text. You are inserting a split that Scripture never makes. Ephesians 1:10 does not say God will keep two redeemed peoples forever separated.

I didnt say that they will stay separated. the vrse says they will be gathered together in one. I was saying that to be gathered they had to be separate groups. You cant gather TOGETHER them if they were already gathered together as one

 

[Doug]

Scripture is explicit that believing Jews and believing Gentiles are not two bodies. Paul says Christ “hath made both one” and “hath broken down the middle wall of partition” so that He might make “in himself of twain one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. He then says both have access by one Spirit unto the Father ~Ephesians 2:18. There is no future re-division after Christ has already made one body.

Jew and Gentile are one ONLY in the body of Christ. You still havea group of believing Israel who are in Christ BUT NOT members of the body of Christ, The body of Christ wasnt in existence when Jews believed Peter, they were members of the litt flock believing remnant

 

[Doug]

Not one people stuck in heaven and another left behind on earth.

Not left behind on earth.
Israel was promised the land FOREVER ...........[Genesis 17:8 KJV] "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
[Genesis 48:4 KJV] "And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee [for] an everlasting possession."

 

[amigo de christo]

Ok then please tell me the gospel of the kingdom is that you preach

the only gospel of the kingdom that there is
THE absolute dire necessity to Have to BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
that GOD did rise him up from the dead .
Cause no ma tter what this generation wants to beleive
There will be many gentiles and jews wailing in the lake of f ire .
IT BE JESUS PREACHING TIME . AND HIS KINGDOM is not of this world .

 

[Doug]

Revelation seals this beyond debate. John does not see eternal separation. He sees “the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven” and hears, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them” ~Revelation 21:2–3. Heaven comes down. God dwells with His people. The dwelling place is unified.

It has to be determined who will be in the holy city.

[Revelation 21:3 KJV] "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.".............God will dwell with his people................[
[Leviticus 26:12 KJV] "And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people."
[Leviticus 26:13 KJV] "I [am] the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright."................Those who shall be my people is Israel. Israel was brought out of Egypt.

[Revelation 21:7 KJV] "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."............who is that overcometh?...................[1 John 5:5 KJV] "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"...............Israel had to only believe Jesus was the Son of God to be saved

[Revelation 21:12 KJV] "And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:"..........the twelve tribes are highlighted on the city gates and twelve foundations

[Revelation 21:22 KJV] "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.".............only to Israel would the absence of a temple have significance

[Revelation 21:24 KJV] "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."..............There will be Gentile nations in the millennial kingdom and there will be saved Gentile nations and will bestow honor in the holy city

The New Jerusalem is on earth and is primarily is dedicated to believing Israel. The nations will benefit from this city, The nations will be healed in the new Jerusalem.............[Revelation 22:2 KJV] "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations."...........The nations will indeed be blessed by the believing remnant of Israel.

[Revelation 22:5 KJV] "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."..............It is said that Israel shall reign............[Deuteronomy 15:6 KJV] "For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee."

 

[Doug]

Scripture never teaches a permanently heavenly body of Christ

[1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV] "Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."..........doesnt this say we will be with the Lord forever in the air/clouds