Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[Grailhunter]

The Quran is most imperfect.

The reason the Apostles were quoring the OT was to show that Jesus was the Messiah, the awaited one.
And they wrote to show that Jesus is God.
Especially John.
Especially Hebrews.

You make it sound like they had to quote something and the OT is all they had.....
no, they quoted it for a reason.

What else did they have to quote.
And yes they were trying to show a connection.....

 

[GodsGrace]

What I was trying to explain is the Quran is imperfect because it did not have to written with a connection to reality.

Not sure what you mean - and not to change the subject,
but the Quran is chock full of contradictions.

Surah 4:80 states that Muhammad must be followed because he is a prophet and because he is a good example.


OK.
We won't get into that here.

 

[Grailhunter]

This means you haven't grasped the meaning of BEGOTTEN.
I do wish we could eliminate it from theological discussions.
Maybe we could use the word GENERATED instead.

Well its the truth and has plenty of biblical contexts.

 

[GodsGrace]

Right, it does not mean created.....it means sired.
Just as all the dozens of begots in the Old Testament.

No.
NOT sired.

I posted the meaning of the word.
Here it is again: Gemini is the source - it's explained very well.


In theology, "begotten" (from the Greek monogenes) signifies a unique, eternal generation, not a temporal creation, especially for Jesus Christ, meaning He shares the same divine nature as God the Father, as in the Nicene Creed's "begotten, not made". It emphasizes Jesus's divine origin, showing He is "God from God, Light from Light," distinct from created beings, highlighting His unique relationship as the eternal Son, not a created creature.

Key Theological Meanings:

• Eternal & Divine Generation: Jesus is "begotten" by the Father, meaning He is eternally generated from the Father's own divine substance, sharing His essence, not made like a human-made object or a created being.
• "Begotten, Not Made": This crucial phrase from the Nicene Creed asserts Jesus's co-eternity and co-equality with the Father, refuting Arianism, which claimed Jesus was a created being.
• Unique Relationship: While all believers are "children of God," Jesus's being "begotten" signifies His unique, intrinsic divine relationship as the Son, unlike adopted children.
• Monogenes (Greek): This word can mean "only begotten" or "unique in kind," emphasizing Jesus's singularity as the only Son of God in this divine sense, though it also carries the sense of being the sole heir or unique lineage.
• Contrast with Creation: A man makes a chair (creation), but a father begets a son (generation of the same nature). Similarly, God the Father begets the Son, passing on divinity, not creating Him.

In Simple Terms:

• "Begotten" in this context means Jesus is divinely born of God, sharing God's own divine essence, not created by God as a separate entity, making Him fully God, just as the Father is God.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know that you believe differently from most so it's not easy to discuss.
I can only repeat that your understanding creates 3 Gods and there is only One.
One God
Three Persons

It's not math.
It's theology.

And I know what you believe and false beliefs abound.
I will not jump off the cliff just because Bill does.
So when you get to Heaven, do you believe that Yeshua will not be sitting on a throne to the right of Yahweh.
The term 1 Godhead is more accurate than 1 God.

 

[Grailhunter]

And you're right!
But THE TRINITY ties them together so that there is only One God and not three.

Wrong.
God the Father, Yahweh, God the Son, Yeshua, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

And I know what you believe and false beliefs abound.
I will not jump off the cliff just because Bill does.
So when you get to Heaven, do you believe that Yeshua will not be sitting on a throne to the right of Yahweh.
The term 1 Godhead is more accurate than 1 God.

I agree that Godhead is better than Trinity.
But Trinity is the term that has been chosen by the early church.

To Christians the Trinity is not a false belief.
It's what has always been believed about Jesus.

 

[Grailhunter]

No.
NOT sired.

I posted the meaning of the word.
Here it is again: Gemini is the source - it's explained very well.


In theology, "begotten" (from the Greek monogenes) signifies a unique, eternal generation, not a temporal creation, especially for Jesus Christ, meaning He shares the same divine nature as God the Father, as in the Nicene Creed's "begotten, not made". It emphasizes Jesus's divine origin, showing He is "God from God, Light from Light," distinct from created beings, highlighting His unique relationship as the eternal Son, not a created creature.

Key Theological Meanings:

• Eternal & Divine Generation: Jesus is "begotten" by the Father, meaning He is eternally generated from the Father's own divine substance, sharing His essence, not made like a human-made object or a created being.
• "Begotten, Not Made": This crucial phrase from the Nicene Creed asserts Jesus's co-eternity and co-equality with the Father, refuting Arianism, which claimed Jesus was a created being.
• Unique Relationship: While all believers are "children of God," Jesus's being "begotten" signifies His unique, intrinsic divine relationship as the Son, unlike adopted children.
• Monogenes (Greek): This word can mean "only begotten" or "unique in kind," emphasizing Jesus's singularity as the only Son of God in this divine sense, though it also carries the sense of being the sole heir or unique lineage.
• Contrast with Creation: A man makes a chair (creation), but a father begets a son (generation of the same nature). Similarly, God the Father begets the Son, passing on divinity, not creating Him.

In Simple Terms:

• "Begotten" in this context means Jesus is divinely born of God, sharing God's own divine essence, not created by God as a separate entity, making Him fully God, just as the Father is God.

The Bible defines the meaning and use of the word.....keep it in context.

 

[Grailhunter]

I agree that Godhead is better than Trinity.
But Trinity is the term that has been chosen by the early church.

To Christians the Trinity is not a false belief.
It's what has always been believed about Jesus.

I like the word Trinity and use it.....Tri-unity between 3 Gods not triune.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrong.
God the Father, Yahweh, God the Son, Yeshua, and God the Holy Spirit.

OK

I'm feeling...

 

[GodsGrace]

The Bible defines the meaning and use of the word.....keep it in context.

Well GH,,,,
the bible is not doing a good job of explaining BEGOTTEN if so many on these boards do not understand it.
(and some believe it means CREATED).

Gotta go till domani.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK

I'm feeling...


View attachment 78136

God bless your heart.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well GH,,,,
the bible is not doing a good job of explaining BEGOTTEN if so many on these boards do not understand it.
(and some believe it means CREATED).

Gotta go till domani.

Hundreds of scriptures prove the one God formula wrong.
Dozens of scriptures define what begot means.
Believing in false beliefs are always a matter of juggling vague scriptures and altering their meanings.
The meaning of Begot is clear in the scriptures and what exactly happened.....Yahweh impregnated a woman and she had Yahweh' Son. And the fact that Yeshua is the Son of Yahweh is a well established fact.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I believe Jesus is God because that is what the Apostles taught.
And because the early church right after the Apostles also taught that Jesus is God.

I'd say that they know better what the Apostles taught than some denomination or other from sprang up some 200 years ago.

I'll post the following again:


Polycarp (AD 69-155) was the bishop at the church in Smyrna. Irenaeus tells us Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle. In his Letter to the Philippians he says,


Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,









Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) was an Christian apologist of the second century.






Melito of Sardis (died c. AD 180) was the bishop of the church in Sardis.




1 of 3

Jesus also said he is one with God in John 17, and says quite a lot more in that chapter that defies human imagination but I believe every word of it.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Hundreds of scriptures prove the one God formula wrong.
Dozens of scriptures define what begot means.
Believing in false beliefs are always a matter of juggling vague scriptures and altering their meanings.
The meaning of Begot is clear in the scriptures and what exactly happened.....Yahweh impregnated a woman and she had Yahweh' Son. And the fact that Yeshua is the Son of Yahweh is a well established fact.

it's complicated, we are Human and think as such, God is totally different far superior in ways we cannot understand, the Father and his Son are distinct but One, john confirms this, all scripture confirms this.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, which is now Lyons, France. Irenaeus was born in Smyrna in Asia Minor, where he studied under bishop Polycarp, who in turn had been a disciple of John the Apostle.

Meaningless when it comes to doctrine.

Real Christians get their doctrine from God's Word not from writings that are not from God's Canon

Writings from the "early church" are for amusement purposes only and are not scripture.

Why are we still discussing the word BEGOTTEN?

You're the only one worried about that.

Paul was beheaded by Rome.
Again: Does HISTORY END in the book of Acts?
OR
Do the Apostles, incl Paul, continue with their lives??

Let me help you with that - God's Word does not tell us how Paul left this planet.

Therefore it's besides the point and is a moot point.

You be busy walking with the Lord not worrying about how Paul croaked since it matters not.

Theology is the STUDY OF GOD.

Yeah from the view point of carnal minded man studying God without the Holy Ghost teaching and leading them

That's WHY and HOW there is so much false doctrine going around.

Why is the word necessary to know God?

You cannot know the Lord without knowing what He has said.

Those who have been deceived by the devil ignore God's Word because, well, they are deceived by the devil.

I never read the word till years after salvation and I know many that are saved that have never opened the bible.

That explains how and why you are deceived.

Thank you for sharing. Now everyone knows what happened to you.

Might be.
Might not be.

Those who have been deceived in to ignoring God's Word are corrupt.

It always seemed like the end times....
Not sure to what you're referring...

Those that are ignorant of God's Word wouldn't and don't understand.

You make it sound like they had to quote something and the OT is all they had.....
no, they quoted it for a reason.

Remember you believe we should ignore God's Word as it's not needed.

Anything you say after saying that is laughable

 

[Grailhunter]

Well GH,,,,
the bible is not doing a good job of explaining BEGOTTEN if so many on these boards do not understand it.
(and some believe it means CREATED).

Gotta go till domani.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well GH,,,,
the bible is not doing a good job of explaining BEGOTTEN if so many on these boards do not understand it.
(and some believe it means CREATED).

Gotta go till domani.

You do not like the word begotten because it single handedly proves the one God formula wrong. The Jehovah's Witnesses when they do not like a word they try to change its meaning.....Do not do this, it is unbecoming of you.
The bible is not a dictionary, but it gives plenty examples of what begot, beget, and begotten mean. And the biblical examples do not show the meaning as created.
Hundreds of scriptures prove the one God formula wrong.
Dozens of scriptures define what begot, beget, and begotten means.
Believing in false beliefs are always a matter of juggling vague scriptures and altering their meanings.
The meaning of begotten is clear in the scriptures because it is what exactly happened.....Yahweh impregnated a woman and she had Yahweh' Son. And the fact that Yeshua is the Son of Yahweh is a well established fact.
Old and New Testament.....and it does mean sired.

Genesis 5:3-5:32
3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7 After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.

9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died.

12 Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. 13 After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. 14 So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.

15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.

18 Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. 19 After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 20 So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died.

21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

25 Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. 26 After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died.

28 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, “This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed.” 30 After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died.

32 And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 11:10-11:27
10 This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood. 11 After he begot Arphaxad, Shem lived five hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

12 Arphaxad lived thirty-five years, and begot Salah. 13 After he begot Salah, Arphaxad lived four hundred and three years, and begot sons and daughters.

14 Salah lived thirty years, and begot Eber. 15 After he begot Eber, Salah lived four hundred and three years, and begot sons and daughters.

16 Eber lived thirty-four years, and begot Peleg. 17 After he begot Peleg, Eber lived four hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters.

18 Peleg lived thirty years, and begot Reu. 19 After he begot Reu, Peleg lived two hundred and nine years, and begot sons and daughters.

20 Reu lived thirty-two years, and begot Serug. 21 After he begot Serug, Reu lived two hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters.

22 Serug lived thirty years, and begot Nahor. 23 After he begot Nahor, Serug lived two hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

24 Nahor lived twenty-nine years, and begot Terah. 25 After he begot Terah, Nahor lived one hundred and nineteen years, and begot sons and daughters.

26 Now Terah lived seventy years, and begot [a]Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

27 This is the genealogy of Terah: Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran begot Lot.

​

Matthew 1:2-1:15
2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.

David the king begot Solomon by her [a]who had been the wife of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot [b]Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot [c]Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot [d]Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob

Hebrews 1:5
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?

Hebrews 5:5
5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”

Hebrew 11:17
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

1st John 4:9
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

When you start counting the over one hundred and fifty scriptures that prove the one God formula wrong, you start off with over 50 My Father and My Father in Heaven scriptures then get into them talking to each other or Yeshua praying to Yahweh. Yeshua ascending to Yahweh....sitting to right of Yahweh on a throne.

 

[GodsGrace]

Meaningless when it comes to doctrine.

Real Christians get their doctrine from God's Word not from writings that are not from God's Canon

Writings from the "early church" are for amusement purposes only and are not scripture.




You're the only one worried about that.




Let me help you with that - God's Word does not tell us how Paul left this planet.

Therefore it's besides the point and is a moot point.

You be busy walking with the Lord not worrying about how Paul croaked since it matters not.




Yeah from the view point of carnal minded man studying God without the Holy Ghost teaching and leading them

That's WHY and HOW there is so much false doctrine going around.




You cannot know the Lord without knowing what He has said.

Those who have been deceived by the devil ignore God's Word because, well, they are deceived by the devil.





That explains how and why you are deceived.

Thank you for sharing. Now everyone knows what happened to you.




Those who have been deceived in to ignoring God's Word are corrupt.




Those that are ignorant of God's Word wouldn't and don't understand.




Remember you believe we should ignore God's Word as it's not needed.

Anything you say after saying that is laughable

Ignorance runs rampant in these Forums.

So I'll only make a few comments since I will not be justifying myself to YOU:

1. If only those with a bible can be saved....
God is very limited since He has no other way of revealing Himself.

I guess you forgot to Read Romans 1:19-20


2. You mentioned The canon of scripture.
The canon of scripture was decided upon by THE CHURCH....
the early chuch to which you give no importance.

So you ARE following the church - whether you know it or not.


3. Most intelligent persons understand that life CONTINUED even after the book of Acts.
History marched on and did not die with the last chapter of Acts.

Those that want to find everything in the bible seem to believe that life ended with Acts,,,,
the Apostles died,,,and it ends there.

HOW we got our bible becomes a complete mystery IF they were right,
which, of course, they are NOT.


4. WHY do you believe anything about Jesus?
HOW do you know He even existed?

I'll answer for you since thinking is not your forte'.

We know about Jesus because THE APOSTLES taught us about Him.
We trust Jesus because we trust THE APOSTLES who taught us about Him.

If it were not for THE APOSTLES we would know NOTHING about Jesus....
either of His existance or His teachings.

So you see BB,,,,you're trusting THE APOSTLES for ALL of your information about Jesus and salvation economy.

Now, let's see if you can wrap your brain around this:
THE SAME APOSTLES that you are trusting with your very salvation -especially since you believe God cannot reveal Himself in any other way except with the written word -

Are the SAME APOSTLES that taught others about Jesus and HIS TEACHINGS.....
The others that you consstantly ridicule and state are not important in any way.
These would be the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Chruch Fathers.

A person that believes he never sins is in no position to ridicule anyone...
let alone those that died to teach the religion YOU are believing in today.

Yes sir,
Ignorance is surely visible in the postings of some on these Forums.

And your consitent personal comments regarding me, are a sign of how little you understand the
Christian faith.

Jesus said the world would know His disciples by their love for one another.
YOU love NO ONE. And your rantings are really tiring.

John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus also said he is one with God in John 17, and says quite a lot more in that chapter that defies human imagination but I believe every word of it.

Of course.
It would take hours to go through everything.

But, you know what they say....
To a believer no proof is necessary.

To a non-believer no proof is sufficient.