Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

[jeffweeder]

So with each of these passing away what is left lol!

The third heaven is the Fathers House, which Jesus ascended to, to prepare a place for us.
It never passes away.
There are many dwelling places in the Fathers House and we just have to wait and see what form this takes for us.

Jn 14
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and I will take you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also. 4 And [to the place] where I am going, you know the way.”

 

[Hiddenthings]

The third heaven is the Fathers House, which Jesus ascended to, to prepare a place for us.
It never passes away.
There are many dwelling places in the Fathers House and we just have to wait and see what form this takes for us.

Jn 14
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and I will take you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also. 4 And [to the place] where I am going, you know the way.”

No! that refers to the literal Heaven, which is never described as the “third heaven.” It appears the original post was not fully read or properly understood, which is unfortunately common in forum discussions.

 

[WPM]

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. 12:3 And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) 12:4 was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak. 2 Co 12:2–4.

Context:

Some have suggested that this experience occurred during Paul’s time in Arabia (cf. Gal 1:17; 2:1). A more compelling proposal, however, is that it coincides with Paul’s vision of Christ in Acts 18:9–10, during his ministry in Corinth. There the Lord appeared to Paul in a vision, encouraging him not to fear but to continue speaking, assuring him of divine protection and revealing that many in the city belonged to God. As a result, Paul remained in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching the word of God.

Paul’s visions of Christ are not so frequent that this alignment is likely coincidental. While the phrase “fourteen years ago” (2 Cor 12:2) may have meant little to newer members of the Corinthian community, it would have carried significant weight for those whom Paul himself baptized during his extended stay. For them, it served as a powerful reminder that their conversion was grounded in a genuine and direct “vision and revelation of the Lord” (2 Cor 12:1). Without such divine assurance, Paul might well have moved on quickly from Corinth rather than establishing the ecclesia there.

Questions:

Does caught up mean caught away?
Where is Paradise located?
Why is it called third heaven?
Heard things to sacred to put into words!

Contextual question:

Did Paul, during the “vision and revelation” described in Acts 18:9, receive a view of the Kingdom—understood as the third-heaven and earth period when God is “all in all”—similar to the vision Christ granted to Peter, James, and John at the Transfiguration (Matt 16:28)?

While I have my own conclusions, it is more constructive to weigh the evidence within the text itself and to review the various heaven and earth periods in which former things pass away and new governance is introduced as in Isaiah 65 & Rev 21.

Can you answer the question?

 

[WPM]

No! that refers to the literal Heaven, which is never described as the “third heaven.” It appears the original post was not fully read or properly understood, which is unfortunately common in forum discussions.

Genesis 2:8-9: “And the LORD God planted a garden [Gr. paradeisos] eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden [Gr. paradeisos], and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

The Greek word for paradise (paradeisos) is used 27 times in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint). The first thirteen times are in Genesis 2 and 3, all references to the Garden in Eden, of course. Other references in the Old Testament to the Garden in Eden use this same Greek word. But it is also employed to refer to a beautiful royal garden in Scripture. Paradise is an ancient term meaning a royal garden or a hunting-park. It derives its origin back to the Garden of Eden. In both Jewish apocalyptic literature and in the Talmud Paradise is associated with the Garden of Eden (the heavenly prototype).

The Greek New Testament that Christ and the Apostles often used which was written in the 3rd century BC.

Genesis 3:23-24: “Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden [Gr. paradeisos] of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden [Gr. paradeisos] of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”

Genesis 3 reveals Paradise lost! When man fell in the Garden his relationship with God was broke. He lost that perfect communion with God and consequently surrendered his favored position before God. Man in the form of Adam disobeyed the divine warning (Genesis 3:6) and brought judgement upon himself and all creation.

The angelic “flaming sword” was placed at the border of the Garden of Eden to prevent man from returning to paradise. Man was not qualified or worthy to return there.

Paradise, the perfection, the tree of life and the flaming sword, were now all transferred to heaven. Earth was left to fallen man and Satan.

Throughout the whole of the old covenant, God’s people, dead or alive, had no automatic access to heaven because of sin. When believers died, they went straight to Abraham’s bosom in Hades. This was a waiting place for believers anticipating being rescued by the Messiah.

Because of sin, man was banished from Paradise. That would remain the case until sin was finally and fully paid for. This was Paradise lost!

Do not miss the allusions to the tree of life.

Man was not allowed to go into the presence of God – only under certain circumstances.

The priest once a year on the day of atonement.

Paradise was lost right up until the cross.

In the New Testament Paradise becomes synonymous with heaven and the New Jerusalem.

When Jesus prophesied to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise [Gr. paradeisos]”

He was announcing a massive change in the location believers went to upon death since the beginning of time. He was revealing something absolutely new. Through the work of Christ, God’s people at death would now be taken into the holy presence of God. It took the transaction of the new covenant to realize that.

It was this same place that Paul the Apostle testified, in 2 Corinthians 12:4. After the cross, after the emptying of Abraham bosom, Paul testified in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise [Gr. paradeisos], and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.”

Paradise = the third heaven.

If we compare the location of “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 (paradise) and Revelation 22:2, 14 (New Jerusalem), we see that paradise is clearly the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 says, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise [Gr. paradeisos] of God.” Clearly “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 resides within Paradise.

In Revelation 21:2 we learn: “John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

In Revelation 22:2, 14 he further describes, “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life … Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”

We can safely deduce that the word Paradise is used as another name for the heavenly abode, and particularly the New Jerusalem. No one would surely doubt the location of “the tree of life” here in Revelation 22:2, 14. It is located in the New Jerusalem.

Paradise = the third heaven = the New Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Explain to me what you think the third heaven means?

It means what Paul said it means in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. It's paradise. It's where Jesus, the souls of the dead in Christ and the angels dwell. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise when He died (Luke 23:43).

And then explain the second heaven and the first.

The first heaven is the earth's atmosphere and the second heaven would be outer space beyond the earth's atmosphere.

You don't know what you know that's the issue.

You don't know anything. That's your issue.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you spent less time laughing and more time actually with your head in the Word you wouldn't have time for these pointless posts!

If you continue saying foolish things, I will continue to laugh at them. As far as I can tell, most of what you say is foolish. You have no discernment whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Back on Topic!

Our present age is one of three “heavens and earths” spoken of in Scripture.

The heavens and the earth are not spoken of as an age in scripture. You continue to spew nonsense on the forum that only comes from your imagination. There are two literal heavens and earths spoken of in scripture. The first heavens and first earth that God created long ago obviously still exist today. In the future when Jesus returns, the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in. That's the second heavens and earth that replace the current, first heavens and earth.

Isaiah 65:17 “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

That's it. The first heavens and first earth and the second heavens and second earth. No imaginary third heavens and third earth.

 

[Adventageous]

Now, at the end of this present evil world (Gal. 1:4 KJB), Jesus comes the 2nd time, to bind him for 1000 years, and to leave him in "the bottomless pit", or desolated world ("cursed"; Gen. 3:17 KJB; devastated still by the remnants of Noah's flood; Gen. 6-9 KJB; the wars of mankind; Mat. 24:6; Mar. 13:7; Luk. 21:9 KJB; the judgments of God upon sin; Rev. 9:20; the 7 last plagues; Rev. 11:19, Rev. 15-16 KJB; the burning away of the 1st heaven's atmosphere; Isa. 34:4; Mat. 5:18a, 24:35; Mar. 13:31; Luk. 16:17a, 21:33; 2 Pet. 3:10a; Rev. 6:14, and the final greatest earthquake; Rev. 16:18 KJB), emptied of all human life (the righteous taken back to 3rd Heaven with Jesus; Jhn. 14:1-4; 2 Thes. 1:14-18 KJB; and all the wicked living slain; destroyed, laying dead upon the ground; Jer. 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zep. 1:2-3,14-18; Isa. 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-16; 2 Thes. 2:8 KJB), whom were brought to death by the brightness of Jesus' 2nd advent. A complete graveyard, with only the fallen angelic hosts remaining in darkness (as the sun and moon will have been moved (shaken) out of their present places (Joe. 2:10, 3:15; Mat. 24:29; Luk. 21:26; Heb. 12:26 KJB), and the stars will not shine for them; Isa. 13:10). this is how "he shall deceive the nations no more", "till the thousand years should be fulfilled", or come to their ending, in which the "many days" (Isa. 24:22), are accomplished, and Jesus, along with New Jerusalem and the saints come back to the earth for the final execution of judgment (Rev. 20:7-15, 21:1-2 KJB).

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

In demonstrating that Isa. 24 and Rev. 20 are connected by language, see this chart - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

In demonstrating that the world (earth), at the 2nd Advent / Coming of Jesus will become as a desolate wilderness (devoid of all human life for 1000 years, aka "the Day of the LORD"), see the following scriptures:
- Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study
- Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

So, satan will not be able to "deceive" human beings (the "nations") during the 1000 years, since all of the righteous / saved will have been taken back to the 3rd heaven with Jesus (Jhn. 14:1-4; 1 Thes. 4:14,17; Psa. 24:1-10; &c.) at the 2nd Advent, which is at the beginning of the 1000 years, or "the Day of the LORD" (Psa. 84:10, 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8 KJB), and all of the unrighteous / lost human beings will remain dead on earth for that 1000 years ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."; Rev. 20:5 KJB & "... and after many days shall they be visited" Isa. 24:22 KJB).

At the ending of the 1000 years, when Jesus (3rd Advent / Coming), with the saints / saved and New Jerusalem return to the earth (Rev. 20:9, 21:2,10; Zec. 14:1-4,&c. KJB), then are the lost raised to life to face the execution of judgment (Rev. 20:5,8-15; Jhn. 5:29b; Act. 24:15b; Psa. 149:9 KJB, &c.)

It is "after" that (second) Great Resurrection (of the lost) that satan is now able ("loosed"; Rev. 20:7; having access to lost humanity again by their resurrection) to "deceive" those (resurrected) (lost) "nations" once again, for to make one last final "battle" (Rev. 20:8 KJB) against God, and the descended New Jerusalem (the "camp of the saints", that "beloved city" Rev. 20:9 KJB), with all the saints in it (which satan will claim to be his, as he will claim to be the true messiah, saviour and that the false is inside the city, for he has been preparing this idea for hundreds of years in the minds of men, even now it is prevalent in the world, that antichrist will be enthroned in Jerusalem), one last time, in a time period called "a little season" (Rev. 20:3 KJB), being an unspecified period of duration, but not relatively long / lengthy.

Ecc_3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:​

​

Dan_7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.​

Satan has been stockpiling all manner of weapons & artillery, and even weapons of light, in great deep mountain holes, that in this day, he will have access to what he needs to make the final assault. He will have access to lost generals, captains, great military leaders, armies, of the past, and even the lost giants of the pre-flood days of Noah, which were men of great stature, intellect and strength but had used those attributes for evil designs.

Once Jesus arises up, judgment will be executed (Rev. 20:11 KJB), and the last season of the night will be at its end, and everlasting day will be ushered in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

In demonstrating that Isa. 24 and Rev. 20 are connected by language, see this chart - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

In demonstrating that the world (earth), at the 2nd Advent / Coming of Jesus will become as a desolate wilderness (devoid of all human life for 1000 years, aka "the Day of the LORD"), see the following scriptures:
- Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study
- Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

So, satan will not be able to "deceive" human beings (the "nations") during the 1000 years, since all of the righteous / saved will have been taken back to the 3rd heaven with Jesus (Jhn. 14:1-4; 1 Thes. 4:14,17; Psa. 24:1-10; &c.) at the 2nd Advent, which is at the beginning of the 1000 years, or "the Day of the LORD" (Psa. 84:10, 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8 KJB), and all of the unrighteous / lost human beings will remain dead on earth for that 1000 years ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."; Rev. 20:5 KJB & "... and after many days shall they be visited" Isa. 24:22 KJB).

At the ending of the 1000 years, when Jesus (3rd Advent / Coming), with the saints / saved and New Jerusalem return to the earth (Rev. 20:9, 21:2,10; Zec. 14:1-4,&c. KJB), then are the lost raised to life to face the execution of judgment (Rev. 20:5,8-15; Jhn. 5:29b; Act. 24:15b; Psa. 149:9 KJB, &c.)

It is "after" that (second) Great Resurrection (of the lost) that satan is now able ("loosed"; Rev. 20:7; having access to lost humanity again by their resurrection) to "deceive" those (resurrected) (lost) "nations" once again, for to make one last final "battle" (Rev. 20:8 KJB) against God, and the descended New Jerusalem (the "camp of the saints", that "beloved city" Rev. 20:9 KJB), with all the saints in it (which satan will claim to be his, as he will claim to be the true messiah, saviour and that the false is inside the city, for he has been preparing this idea for hundreds of years in the minds of men, even now it is prevalent in the world, that antichrist will be enthroned in Jerusalem), one last time, in a time period called "a little season" (Rev. 20:3 KJB), being an unspecified period of duration, but not relatively long / lengthy.

Ecc_3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:​

​

Dan_7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.​

Satan has been stockpiling all manner of weapons & artillery, and even weapons of light, in great deep mountain holes, that in this day, he will have access to what he needs to make the final assault. He will have access to lost generals, captains, great military leaders, armies, of the past, and even the lost giants of the pre-flood days of Noah, which were men of great stature, intellect and strength but had used those attributes for evil designs.

Once Jesus arises up, judgment will be executed (Rev. 20:11 KJB), and the last season of the night will be at its end, and everlasting day will be ushered in.

There is no 3rd Advent/Coming of Jesus. You need to start from scratch and try again.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No! that refers to the literal Heaven, which is never described as the “third heaven.” It appears the original post was not fully read or properly understood, which is unfortunately common in forum discussions.

The literal heaven is described as the third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. Do you deny that paradise is the literal heaven? It clearly is. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise. Where is Jesus? In the literal heaven. Paradise. The third heaven. You remain confused.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Can you answer the question?

Which one?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Paradise = the third heaven = the New Jerusalem.

Correct, now take a look at how its written:

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first (former) heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. Re 21:1.

What is replacing Christ and his bride?

 

[Davidpt]

The literal heaven is described as the third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. Do you deny that paradise is the literal heaven? It clearly is. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise. Where is Jesus? In the literal heaven. Paradise. The third heaven. You remain confused.

Why are you contradicting where Scripture plainly tells us Jesus was during the time He was dead?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

What reasonable person could possibly confuse in the heart of the earth with the 3rd heaven where God dwells?

And what about the following, which is a 2nd and 3rd witness to Matthew 12:40?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


And since you don't believe in soul sleep, what do you take it to mean that His soul was not left in hell? The text never says His soul didn't go there. It says it was never left there.

BTW, that doesn't mean His soul was in hell in order to be tormented while He was dead. I certainly don't believe that to be the case. Maybe it had something to do with the following, for example?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which one?

He asked you where is the third heaven. But, of course, you think it's referring to an imaginary third heaven age, so it's not a question that you can answer.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Why are you contradicting where Scripture plainly tells us Jesus was during the time He was dead?

Because they do not understand death as death. They assume instantaneous salvation, that at the moment a person dies, some eternal part of them departs to heaven, which they then identify as “paradise.” What @Spiritual Israelite overlooks is that the paradise Jesus spoke of was His coming Kingdom, which is to descend from heaven to earth.

 

[Hiddenthings]

He asked you where is the third heaven. But, of course, you think it's referring to an imaginary third heaven age, so it's not a question that you can answer.

Maybe you have a problem with comprehension?

Here is the post again but this time I've highlighted the questions:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. 12:3 And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) 12:4 was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak. 2 Co 12:2–4.

Context:

Some have suggested that this experience occurred during Paul’s time in Arabia (cf. Gal 1:17; 2:1). A more compelling proposal, however, is that it coincides with Paul’s vision of Christ in Acts 18:9–10, during his ministry in Corinth. There the Lord appeared to Paul in a vision, encouraging him not to fear but to continue speaking, assuring him of divine protection and revealing that many in the city belonged to God. As a result, Paul remained in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching the word of God.

Paul’s visions of Christ are not so frequent that this alignment is likely coincidental. While the phrase “fourteen years ago” (2 Cor 12:2) may have meant little to newer members of the Corinthian community, it would have carried significant weight for those whom Paul himself baptized during his extended stay. For them, it served as a powerful reminder that their conversion was grounded in a genuine and direct “vision and revelation of the Lord” (2 Cor 12:1). Without such divine assurance, Paul might well have moved on quickly from Corinth rather than establishing the ecclesia there.

Questions:

Does caught up mean caught away?
Where is Paradise located?
Why is it called third heaven?
Heard things to sacred to put into words!

Contextual question:

Did Paul, during the “vision and revelation” described in Acts 18:9, receive a view of the Kingdom—understood as the third-heaven and earth period when God is “all in all”—similar to the vision Christ granted to Peter, James, and John at the Transfiguration (Matt 16:28)?

While I have my own conclusions, it is more constructive to weigh the evidence within the text itself and to review the various heaven and earth periods in which former things pass away and new governance is introduced as in Isaiah 65 & Rev 21.

Which one?

 

[Hiddenthings]

@WPM here's what I think is going to happen. You are going to read Revelation 21 again but with real care this time and you will see that the former things (Christ reigning on earth with the Saints) is the governance which is being replaced (styled Heaven and Earth) - how do I know that? Well, firstly it tells you!

21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist. Rev 21:3–4.

AND

1 Corinthians 15:28 “When all things are subjected to him (through Christ and the Saints), then the Son himself will also be subjected to him (Yahweh) who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.”

This is not about the literal destruction of heaven and earth. Rather, it describes Christ handing back a renewed and cleansed earth, restored in all its glory to God, with death and the grave abolished and peace reigning eternally.

One heaven and earth period is removed for another endless heaven and earth period to begin!

I don't need to prove this to you as I know you will read Rev 21 with far more care and you will see the truth.

 

[Davidpt]

What @Spiritual Israelite overlooks is that the paradise Jesus spoke of was His coming Kingdom, which is to descend from heaven to earth.

Exactly! That's how I understand it as well. It was simply a prophecy about paradise in the future, meaning the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. Jesus was simply telling him that he too will be in paradise with Him when He comes in His kingdom.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Some either ignore this or simply don't comprehend that this proves that Jesus wasn't meaning that very same day. As if while He was in the heart of the earth, it equals Him having come into His kingdom. Not to mention, He wasn't even presented with a kingdom until after He ascended back into heaven first some days later following his resurrection. And that the thief said remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Exactly! That's how I understand it as well. It was simply a prophecy about paradise in the future, meaning the new Jerusalem that comes down from god out of heaven. Jesus was simply telling him that he too will be in paradise with Him when He comes in His kingdom.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Some either ignore this or simply don't comprehend that this proves that Jesus wasn't meaning that very same day. As if while He was in the heart of the earth, it equals Him having come into His kingdom? Not to mention, He wasn't even presented with a kingdom until after I ascended back into heaven first some days later following his resurrection. And that the thief said remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

It's so clear I believe @Spiritual Israelite can see it, but I sense the pride is strong in them.

 

[Davidpt]

It's so clear I believe @Spiritual Israelite can see it, but I sense the pride is strong in them.

Of course he is too prideful to admit he might be wrong about some of this. I have been knowing him for years now, and I don't recall one single time where he ever admitted that maybe the other person is right in this case rather than him. Meaning in regards to something major, such as what we are discussing here.