The sons of God

[Zao is life]

"Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
"Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge? (Job 38:1-2).

The wisdom of God is a characteristic of the Word (Logos) of God. In Proverbs 8:22-31 Solomon personifies the wisdom of God, saying,

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

The Word of God (Son of God) was present when God created the heavens and the earth - which were created through Him - and he was rejoicing in it.

In Job 38, God asks Job,

Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
2 "Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? *

* There is one morning star - and Jesus refers to Himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16.
* The words "morning stars" are in the singular in the text - "morning star".
* The word "sons" is in the singular in the text (but this is the case even when elsewhere the word is referring to sons, plural).
- but there is only one morning star.

Job 1:6-7

In Job 1:6 Satan came among the sons of God who had come to present themselves before the LORD - and in the very next verse when God asked Satan where he came from, Satan says "From going to and fro - in the earth - and from walking up and down in it."

Then God asks Satan if he has considered God's servant Job - because there was none like him - in the earth -

In the context Job was among the sons of God who had come to present themselves to God - in the earth - the way God much later commanded Israel to do three times a year in the laws of Moses, and 'the accuser of the brethren' (Revelation 12:10) came among them.

Many take the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 (quoted below) to be referring to the line of Seth and his descendants, and the daughters of men to the line of Cain and his descendants.

Those who disagree will often cite:

- The book of Enoch (considered spurious by Orthodox standards in both Judaism and Christianity - for a number of valid reasons);
- 2 Peter 2:4-5;
- Jude 1:6;
- Genesis 6:1-4;
- Job 38:4-7; and
- Job 1:6 - ignoring the context of Job 1:6.

Genesis 6
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

It's questionable whether or not angels - whom scripture tells us are spirit beings - had the human DNA and ability necessary to procreate with human women - whether fallen angels or not.

"Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
"Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge? (Job 38:1-2).

If we err, we should rather err on the side of caution, not - through drama in the human imagination produced by books such as the book of Enoch - inserting meaning into scripture that the texts do not plainly contain.

It's only by drama in the human imagination produced by things that are not written in the Bible but in spurious extra-biblical books such as the book of Enoch that we can insert an allusion to "angels impregnating human women" into 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6.

"Angels also, those who did not keep their own principality, but left their proper dwelling, under darkness God has kept in chains everlasting, unto the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6)

"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into tartaroo (the deepest pit in hades) and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment." (2 Peter 2:4).

When comparing scripture with scripture there is not enough evidence that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 & 4; Job 1:6; and Job 38:4-7 were not humans, and there is NO evidence that Peter and Jude were alluding to a time when "fallen angels impregnated human women" - because such an allusion is simply not in the text of 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6.

It is only of the sons of God that it is written that God said,

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26).

The sons of God

"L et us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and o...

god-of-the-living.blogspot.com

 

[Davy]

....
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? *

* There is one morning star - and Jesus refers to Himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16.
* The words "morning stars" are in the singular in the text - "morning star".
* The word "sons" is in the singular in the text (but this is the case even when elsewhere the word is referring to sons, plural).
- but there is only one morning star.

FALSEHOOD #1:
The phrase there in Job 38:7 "all the sons of God" is referring to the angels. The Hebrew word for "sons" (OT:1121) CAN be used in the plural, just as it is also done THROUGHOUT The Old Testament text.

Jesus also referred to Himself as the Alpha and Omega, first and the last, which The Father originally referred to Himself. (Rev.1). So not only is Jesus The Morning Star, but so is GOD The Father.

Job 1:6-7

In Job 1:6 Satan came among the sons of God who had come to present themselves before the LORD - and in the very next verse when God asked Satan where he came from, Satan says "From going to and fro - in the earth - and from walking up and down in it."

FALSEHOOD #2:
That Job 1:7 verse where Satan answers God's question as to what he'd been doing, DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY MEAN SATAN WAS LITERALLY WALKING IN the earth. It is only an EXPRESSION that Satan was going to and fro between the heavenly and the earthly dimensions. It must be difficult for those who cannot figure out that Satan is right there at God's Throne, IN HEAVEN, when God asked him that, and Satan replied. One should have enough common sense to figure out that Satan was speaking of his going back and forth between between the two dimensions.

Furthermore, because the Book of Job shows Satan is able to approach God's Throne in Heaven there, and we KNOW by that time Satan had already rebelled against God and had fallen, the FACT that Satan is STILL allowed in Heaven there, and EVEN COULD ACCUSE JOB IN GOD'S FACE, shows Satan is still FREE to work in BOTH realms, Heaven and on earth, even as it STILL is to this day. It proves the war in Heaven of Revelation 12:7 HAS NOT... HAPPENED YET TODAY.

Then God asks Satan if he has considered God's servant Job - because there was none like him - in the earth -

In the context Job was among the sons of God who had come to present themselves to God - in the earth - the way God much later commanded Israel to do three times a year in the laws of Moses, and 'the accuser of the brethren' (Revelation 12:10) came among them.

FALSEHOOD #3:
There is NO such idea written in Job that says the "sons of God" came to God in the earth. Zao has really done a stretch of the imagination to come up with that ADDING to the Scripture.

Many take the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 (quoted below) to be referring to the line of Seth and his descendants, and the daughters of men to the line of Cain and his descendants.

FALSEHOOD #4:
A little trip into the Hebrew reveals the phrase "daughters of men" refers to the eth'ha'aadam, which means the specific man Adam, because it contains both the article and particle in the Hebrew. Hebrew 'aadam' without is put for mankind in general. But eth'ha'aadam is specific to the man Adam that God formed in His Garden to till the soil. Thus that "daughters of men" phrase is POINTING DIRECTLY TO THE OFFSPRING OF THE MAN ADAM, WHICH MEANS THE SYMBOLIC SEED OF THE 'WOMAN' OF GENESIS 3 which Christ would be born through.

Satan had sent a group of his angels to earth to mix with the daughters of Adam in attempt to taint that seed Christ would come from. This is also why later in Genesis 6 we are told that Noah was 'perfect' in his generations, the Hebrew word for 'perfect' there is the same word used for the purity of sacrificial animals God required per the old covenant sacrifice.

It's questionable whether or not angels - whom scripture tells us are spirit beings - had the human DNA and ability necessary to procreate with human women - whether fallen angels or not.

FALSEHOOD #5:
The Jude 6 Scripture actually says the following...

Jude 6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
KJV

That simply means those angels of Genesis 6 left their angelic estate, and their assigned habitation in the heavenly, coming to earth. It still does not reveal just how... those angels were able to mate with flesh woman, yet God's Word reveals the 'result' of it. Descriptions of the hybrid-giant race in many other Old Testament Scriptures exist that DEFINES that Genesis 6 mating of those angels with the daughters of men, and it produced a hybrid race which God did not create.

Even in the Isaiah 26:14 verse is a DIRECT pointer to the hybrid-giants with the Hebrew name of the giants Rephaim which was wrongly translated by the KJV translators as "deceased"...

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased (Rephaim), they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

Notice that says, "they shall not rise", i.e., not be resurrected from the dead. We know that even the wicked dead shall have a resurrection also (John 5:28-29). But NOT THESE dead here. That means... it CANNOT be speaking of human dead.

Num 13:32-33
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, "The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
KJV

2 Sam 21:20
20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
KJV

 

[Davidpt]

Why not simply let Jesus provide the interpretation?

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Where in any of that does it even remotely give the impression, that prior to Christ returning, once again fallen angels will be marrying and mating with fair earth women, then producing hybrid offspring that is literally part demon and part human?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
2 "Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? *

* There is one morning star - and Jesus refers to Himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16.
* The words "morning stars" are in the singular in the text - "morning star".
* The word "sons" is in the singular in the text (but this is the case even when elsewhere the word is referring to sons, plural).
- but there is only one morning star.

Correct. The morning star is Jesus Christ. Indeed! And we, as the messengers of God, are symbolized as morning stars. For example:

Genesis 22:17

• "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

We are as the stars of heaven through Christ, THEE bright and morning star (Revelation 22:16) who leads us. And we are the morning stars IN CHRIST. aChrist is not a literal star anymore than we are. But He is the light bearer, which stars represent. The prophecy that the congregation of God would extend all over the earth (Genesis 15:5) to bless all nations and kindreds and languages, is fulfilled in the church through Christ.

Revelation 1:20

• "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the "Messengers" of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Messengers. Not Angels. A mystery no more since God has just revealed it to "he who hath an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches." The Candlesticks are the churches and the candles are the light bearers. The seven stars likewise are the messengers of the churches and the number seven is to "represent" the completeness/perfection of that church--and its universal extension to all the world, a blessing, exhorting, and warning to all these churches throughout time. Not just the churches in Asia. But of course, there are many here will never see that truth if they keep denying and fighting against the symbolic, parabolic, or allegorical nature of God's complex, complicated, and intricately woven word.

Job 1:6-7

In Job 1:6 Satan came among the sons of God who had come to present themselves before the LORD - and in the very next verse when God asked Satan where he came from, Satan says "From going to and fro - in the earth - and from walking up and down in it."

Then God asks Satan if he has considered God's servant Job - because there was none like him - in the earth -

In the context Job was among the sons of God who had come to present themselves to God - in the earth - the way God much later commanded Israel to do three times a year in the laws of Moses, and 'the accuser of the brethren' (Revelation 12:10) came among them.

The sons of God in Scripture refer to BELIEVERS (Genesis 6:1; John 1:12; Romans 8:14; 1 John 3:1) who are spiritual children/sons of the Father. NOT literal angels as is often assumed.

Thus by allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see these sons of God refers to believers, God's spiritual children on earth, and it is they who come to present themselves before the Lord. Actually the language of "present themselves before the LORD" is also confirming the illustration of their coming for the purpose of sacrifice, offering and forgiveness of sin of the Lord's congregation. It "is" the representation of the Lord's Heaven on earth. It is not an illustration of supernatural Angels or of Satan as a Angel presenting themselves in Holy Heaven in the presence of God. God says Satan was a Liar from the beginning, and NO LIAR can walk right into God's Holy Face in Heaven. How absurd! Moses couldn't even stand before the glory of Holy God on the mountaintop, much less the epitome of evil and the father of lies come to stand where God dwells in all His glory. Perish that thought! Allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see that the language of "presenting oneself" before God, or [yatsab], is the language of the congregation making obeisance, supplication, oblation and contrition. It doesn't refer to literally standing in Heaven physically facing God. Selah!
Satan is not created being as most think. He is a spirit of man and he is among the congregation of God ON EARTH. He come from going to and fro in the Earth and from walking up and down in it, it simply means he travels far and wide, much as a sojourner that had been traveling to and fro back and forth in the land/Earth. And in his travels he came in among Job's group, and many believers' groups. Up and down just means one direction and the opposite direction, just as we would say today that someone walked North and South (up and down) in the land. It is only illustrating that we journeyed far and wide.

Consider that this is precisely why God in His divine synergy and providence effectively asks Him if in his travels, had he come across anyone as righteous as His servant Job.

Job 1:8

• "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

In other words, in your travels, God asked Satan, "have you ever seen anyone so upright as My servant Job who fears God, and so shuns evil?" God knows Satan is the spirit of adversary, is hateful, corrupt, disgusting, and a liar from the beginning who could not possibly reside literally in heaven. Obviously this desperately wicked spirit is not traveling or commuting back and forth from heaven to Earth "as a son of God" and presenting himself as a son before God. Come on. That whole idea, especially from Sunday school, is untenable for so many reasons, not the least of which is that Heaven is for the heavenly where nothing that offends or that makes a lie can dwell. When the sons of God (the Lord's children of that day in the Old Testament), presented themselves before the Lord, the adversary came in among them by coming in man. Just the same as Judas, the son of perdition likewise came in among the Lord's congregation to betray Christ by having Satan enter into him, that he might do his bidding.

(continue to next post due to space)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Many take the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 (quoted below) to be referring to the line of Seth and his descendants, and the daughters of men to the line of Cain and his descendants.

That is true.
Genesis 6:1-2

• "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
• That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

What do we really have here? Per context, God is talking about people, men and daughters. Not angels. We need to read CAREFULLY on HOW "man" began to multiply in the world and "daughters" were born to these men. So what comes in the next verse? God says (in this context) that the sons of God (which we know are believers) saw these "daughters of men" that they were very beautiful to look at and so they began to marry them. That violates God's word of the separation of His people (sons/children of God) from the daughtwers of the world. Now how in the name of all rationality can we take from those verses that these were not sons of God but actually "heavenly angels?" I would say that they are deceived by their Sunday School teachers! Seriously, where is there even the slightest implication that these were angels from heaven? Can an angel even marry a human woman? The fact is, "daughters of men" is used in this context in contrast to "sons of God" illustrating these were not women who were children of God, but those multiplying in the world and of unbelief.

Sons of God = God's congregation = believers
Daughters of men = Daughters of the world = unbelievers

Simple as that! Thus it would follow perfectly that this is exactly WHY the congregation of God turned away from Him and became wicked where ultimately only Noah and his (8 souls) were left as "true" believers. Because that's what happens when the church marries outside of its people. The seed produced is part of unbelief and the cycle and outcome of worldliness is inevitable. Just as we have in our day today! Selah! For example, didn't Christ warned, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?" and "what communion hath light with darkness?" And "what concord hath Christ with Belial?" or "what part hath he that believeth with an infidel (2nd Corinthians 6:14)?" For example, we are NOT to try and mix God's people with the infidels! This is the WHOLE POINT God was making here! It's just rational thinking, logical and follows perfectly the narrative of what happened when light was mixed with darkness.

All through Scripture we see God's word describing the sons or children of God as believers. By contrast there is not one single instance where we read of God's word describing or informing us that feathered angels were these sons of God. NO WHERE. It is becasue they are being brainwashed started with Sunday School doctrine. That is the difference between allowing the Scriptures to interpret themselves, and privately interpreting Scripture by fables or by what we think it might mean.

Moreover, in keeping with the literal use of sons of God found all throughout Scripture, we have to believe that this refers to God's congregation, the children of God on earth, who in the spirit of disobedience married the unsaved daughters of men, and that produced the powerfully wicked offspring that led to the extreme evil of Noah’s day. ...just as GOD Himself told His congregation later in the law that it always would.

Ezra 9:1

• ""..The priests and the Levites, have not Separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the canaanites, the hittites, the perizites, the Jebusites, the Amonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, the Amorites. For they have taken of their Daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the HOLY SEED have mingled themselves with the people of those lands.."

Note the error of what the sons of Israel (the Sons of God) had done here? They had done the exact same thing that we read about in Genesis chapter 6. They had desired and gone after the infidel daughters of men who lived in the nations around them. Look at the language there. Because it shows this was an abomination to God. God says they mingled the Holy seed. Simply put, these Sons of God were not to be yoked together with these daughters of men (unbelieving women). And that is exactly what they did.

Genesis 6
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

It's questionable whether or not angels - whom scripture tells us are spirit beings - had the human DNA and ability necessary to procreate with human women - whether fallen angels or not.

Of course not! Nothing to do with the ability of "angels" taking on human DNA that produce "Giants" That is the imagination of men. The sons of God or the children of God are the congregation, not supermen, supernatural giants.
By the way, does anyone really understand what God means by giants here. Let hear this out before I explain.

"Angels also, those who did not keep their own principality, but left their proper dwelling, under darkness God has kept in chains everlasting, unto the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6)

Let read with KJV:

Jud 1:6
(6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2Pe 2:4-5
(4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Their habitation was the congregation of God, the earthly representation of the Heavenly Kingdom. It was taken FROM them "BECAUSE" of their unbelief.

The verse of Jude, read in its context, subject matter, the authority of the word, and understood using the inspired word for messenger, is giving a lot of history and reference to the Old Testament Messengers who didn't keep their first estate [arche] (read, the covenanted kingdom principality where they first resided), but rebelled and fell away, like stars falling from heaven, and are now reserved forever unto the everlasting judgment. Darkness symbolizes being unable to see, or to be blind. It means those people are spiritually blind to the Truth for they are no longer part of God's congregation. They are unsaved. Not chosen ones. So they will remain spiritually lost, being reserved until Judgment day when they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. So this judgment was placed on unbelieving Israel because she rejected the foundation of the covenant of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

And true to His Word, the Lord DID take the Kingdom from them, and its kingdom representation was now to go to the New Testament congregation in three days. The old testament messengers being reserved in chains of darkness, blindness in part happening to them because of this rejection.

(Again, contiune to next post, due to space)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Romans 11:25

• "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

It's a mystery because it's a secret not only to national Israel, but also to most Premillennialists and Dispensationalists who also reject and rebel against the authority of God's word. Thus they remain in darkness or in blindness until the fullness of Gentiles / Nations (Salvation of Gentiles) comes in, after which the judgment sits. Thus the term "reserved" in everlasting chains of darkness (Jude 1:6) until judgment day. They are the "rest of the dead" of Revelation 20:5-6, because they never had the first resurrection (being born again in Christ) so they are reserved for judgment day after thousand years (of millennial kingdom with salvation gospel) is finished. The same illustration in the symbolism of the Fig Tree cursed by Christ our Lord.

Matthew 21:19

• "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. And presently the fig tree withered away."

The fig tree symbolizes Old Covenant Israel here, the congregation and representation of the kingdom of heaven that bore no fruit when it was time. It is removed out of its place and delivered into chains of darkness to be reserved until judgment day. Not only Jude, but 2nd Peter illustrates the exact same thing about the unfaithful messengers of God. That word is not angel, but messengers.

2nd Peter 2:4

• "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"

The language "cast down" references Revelation 12 where the stars or messengers are being "cast down by the tail of the Devil so that they are no longer representative lights of the kingdom of heaven, but are cast down to the earth, reserved until judgment day. Also in Jude, speaking of God's people (not angels), we read:

Jude 1:9-13

• "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
• But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
• Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
• These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
• Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."

Michael, meaning "who is God, or whom is like God," is a representation of Christ, the archangel [arch aggelos], meaning "first, chief, or preeminent" Messenger, is the messenger of the Covenant!

Malachi 3:1

• "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."

That word translated correctly this time as "Messenger" is the exact same word that is not translated, but changed to the transliterated and anglicized Greek "Angel" in other places. This is Micahel, the preeminent or Chief Messenger that is spoken of in Jude chapter one. And the wandering stars spoken of there are the messengers (not angels) who were supposed to follow him, but rebel and are cast out. They are the professed believers. The same unbelievers of the nation of Israel, God's congregation, who are now reserved in darkness, blinded forever unto the judgment day. It's giving reference to the judgment of the messengers who sinned and found no grace in God's sight. It's not your imagination o f feathered angels who received no grace, it's messengers. If angels could sin, and yet were in heaven with God, then they had already received grace. If they had already received grace, then they couldn't be cast out of heaven because they received no grace--unless we believe that grace is earned or must be maintained by works. You see how this idea makes no sense if we are going to be consistent and in harmony with all of Scripture.

Selah!

 

[Zao is life]

Romans 11:25

• "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

It's a mystery because it's a secret not only to national Israel, but also to most Premillennialists and Dispensationalists who also reject and rebel against the authority of God's word. Thus they remain in darkness or in blindness until the fullness of Gentiles / Nations (Salvation of Gentiles) comes in, after which the judgment sits. Thus the term "reserved" in everlasting chains of darkness (Jude 1:6) until judgment day. They are the "rest of the dead" of Revelation 20:5-6, because they never had the first resurrection (being born again in Christ) so they are reserved for judgment day after thousand years (of millennial kingdom with salvation gospel) is finished. The same illustration in the symbolism of the Fig Tree cursed by Christ our Lord.

Matthew 21:19

• "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. And presently the fig tree withered away."

The fig tree symbolizes Old Covenant Israel here, the congregation and representation of the kingdom of heaven that bore no fruit when it was time. It is removed out of its place and delivered into chains of darkness to be reserved until judgment day. Not only Jude, but 2nd Peter illustrates the exact same thing about the unfaithful messengers of God. That word is not angel, but messengers.

2nd Peter 2:4

• "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"

The language "cast down" references Revelation 12 where the stars or messengers are being "cast down by the tail of the Devil so that they are no longer representative lights of the kingdom of heaven, but are cast down to the earth, reserved until judgment day. Also in Jude, speaking of God's people (not angels), we read:

Jude 1:9-13

• "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
• But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
• Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
• These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
• Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."

Michael, meaning "who is God, or whom is like God," is a representation of Christ, the archangel [arch aggelos], meaning "first, chief, or preeminent" Messenger, is the messenger of the Covenant!

Malachi 3:1

• "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."

That word translated correctly this time as "Messenger" is the exact same word that is not translated, but changed to the transliterated and anglicized Greek "Angel" in other places. This is Micahel, the preeminent or Chief Messenger that is spoken of in Jude chapter one. And the wandering stars spoken of there are the messengers (not angels) who were supposed to follow him, but rebel and are cast out. They are the professed believers. The same unbelievers of the nation of Israel, God's congregation, who are now reserved in darkness, blinded forever unto the judgment day. It's giving reference to the judgment of the messengers who sinned and found no grace in God's sight. It's not your imagination o f feathered angels who received no grace, it's messengers. If angels could sin, and yet were in heaven with God, then they had already received grace. If they had already received grace, then they couldn't be cast out of heaven because they received no grace--unless we believe that grace is earned or must be maintained by works. You see how this idea makes no sense if we are going to be consistent and in harmony with all of Scripture.

Selah!

Yes though I don't agree with every detail of what you say, I agree in detail with a lot of what you say, save your application of the principle in the way you identify Satan and the time that the messengers Peter and Jude spoke of were imprisoned (though you could be right with that timing and who you identify the messengers as - but I'm not sure).

The words you chose though, also brought me to (fully) now understand something else that was not clear to me:

Daniel 2
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes though I don't agree with every detail of what you say, I agree in detail with 98% of what you say - or 100% save your application of the principle in the way you identify Satan and the messengers Peter and Jude spoke of.

The word you chose though also brought me to (fully) now understand something else that was not clear to me:

Daniel 2
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

You are getting warmer.

 

[Zao is life]

You are getting warmer.

= the sons of God = God's chosen people.

 

[Zao is life]

You are getting warmer.

With regards to the period in time you apply 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 to, what do you make of the similarity here:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[TribulationSigns]

= the sons of God = God's chosen people.

Right! And as God's children, too. Even the New Testament confirms this.

Matthew 5:9
(9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Luke 20:36
(36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Joh 1:12
(12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 11:52
(52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Rom 8:14
(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 4:6-7
(6) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
(7) Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

And many more...

But sadly, many people to this day denied this and insisted that the sons of God in the Old Testament were angels becasue of their misinterpretation of Job as I have explained earlier.

 

[TribulationSigns]

With regards to the period in time you apply 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 to, what do you make of the similarity here:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Good thing that you bring this up.
I will explain some examples to give you an idea first. The characteristic of the end times is not "anything" but the decay or corruption of the world and judgment of the church (judgment must begin there) as Satan is loosed from his restraint to deceive the nations. And what many God-fearing Christians will deny that rampant homosexuality is a direct sign of the decay, deterioration, and corruption of society as it forsakes all the inherited laws of God. This sin turns the order of things upside down. This decay and corruption is just as much a sign of God's judgment as it was in the days of Noah.

Genesis 6:11-13

• "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
• And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
• And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

See, God is immutable. He doesn't change His Modus Operandi. Indeed, these things are written as examples for our admonishment, our understanding, and our consideration. As the earth deteriorates, the world becomes full of violence and wrongdoing, where there is corruption of God's nature and offenses and violence against Him. And shall God forebear? Well, He has been forbearing or longsuffering, but ultimately He will give the unfaithful of His people up, just like what God will do with His New Testament congregation in Revelation 11:1-2 when he will gave up the court which is without the temple (meaning professed believers who pretended to be Christians but do not have relationship or saving faith with Christ). So, as it is written, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will thou not judge and avenge the blood of the prophets on them that dwell on the earth?" The answer is, only until the last election is sealed and all of Israel has been saved, FIRST. Then the restraint is then lifted as Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and God gives man up to his vile immorality. Thus this sign of homosexuality may seem to growing fast and triumphant for a season, but the end thereof is just as it was in Sodom. It's no coincidence that Sodomy or Homosexuality is equated with Sodom. Are we to think that God highlights the contemptible sin of Homosexuality in Sodom before destroying it is just coincidental? As hard as that might be to believe, there are those who believe homosexuality in Sodom is just miscellaneous and of no significant import. But for those who can discern more than the face of the sky, it was written for a reason, signifying the corruption and perversion of man. It is a sign of Christ's coming. Moreover, God uses these same examples of both Noah and Sodom when prophesying the coming of the Lord and the end of days. Specifically Because they both denote the corruption and vile unnatural affections of the world, the rampant abominations in the earth as Sodomy.

Luke 17:25-29

• "But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
• And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
• They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
• Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
• But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all."

The days of Noah, when the world was continually evil and in unchecked degradation, are equated to the day that the Lord would return to destroy the wicked. Are we listening? Were they listening then? No, they were eating and drinking pretending everything was as normal like we are seeing today. They did NOT see the signs either. Yet Noah and His were saved by the Ark of the Covenant, upon which He was found safe and secure in Christ.

1st Peter 3:19-20

• "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
• Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Likewise, the days of Sodom and the deterioration of that society from the natural order in wickedness and homosexuality, are also equated (by Christ) to the day that the Lord would return. Just as Lot was saved by the Messenger of God who forced him to leave his house and kin and depart that city, lest he receive of the Lord's judgment upon that city. This is the exact same type of warning is presented to the Lord's people of New Testament congregation to leave, in Revelation chapter 18, when they "see" the abomination of desolation, standing in the church. Because the church today is likewise morally bankrupt with the same filthiness of Sodom. And nothing in the word of God is there by coincidence, not God's illustrating its corruption and needing to be destroyed, or the Lord illustrating Sodom's rampant homosexuality and the city's need for destruction. Nor is it a coincidence His use of both as examples (signs) of His coming again and the end of the world. Our society today is continually evil as in the days of Noah and is deteriorating with rampant homosexuality as in the days of Sodom. It can only mean the judgment (and the Second Coming) thereof is nigh. Man rejected serving God, and instead serves only themselves, the creation rather than the creator. The carnal image of the beast. It is the pleasure principle, where whatever feels right is done, regardless of the natural law or the order of God's creation. And when this happens, God gives them up, or in other words, takes away His hand of restraint in judgment. His principles do not change, man does.

Romans 1:25-27

• "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
• For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
• And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Homosexuality's, Transgenderism, Agender or nonbinary, etc. are growing rapidly. God calls these vile affections, but unfortunately, the church just rolls its eyes and conducts business as usual. Bible-believing Christians must be prepared to face that deterioration of the world AND the church and the trials and tribulations of same. They must do so with their eyes on the form of Christ, and not the form of the church. They must discern the signs of the times with their head toward heaven, and not look toward the world in fear after those things which are coming upon the church. Where you can "see" the abomination of desolation. It is a prelude to the Lord's soon return. For the powers of heaven shall be shaken, the church devastated. Signs are spiritual, in the heavens and in the earth. And only those with their eyes toward heaven will "see" them which I do today.

So, to answer your question, the “spirits in prison” of 1st Peter 3, refers to those who remain in spiritual bondage to Satan and were in need of liberation. They may be described as not knowing their right hand from their left, because Christ—through His death and resurrection—granted them spiritual hearing, as stated in verses 18–19. This “preaching” is not something that must be verbally heard or intellectually understood; rather, it is the proclamation of regeneration itself.

This is why infants and those who are mentally incapacitated can be saved—nothing is required of them. Salvation is by grace alone, through the faithfulness of Christ. Those who reject the gospel remain in spiritual bondage, reserved for judgment, whether they are physically alive or dead.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I need to add in case anyone wonders. I pretty much believe that faith comes by hearing spiritually. That is to say, through the Spirit of Christ, the only way it could come since scripture unambiguously declares He is the author and Finisher of our faith. So if scripture be true, then it cannot come by the written word, nor by hearing the written word, but is a gift by it's author, who starts and sees it through to the end in us. I believe that no one can save anyone by preaching, but I do agree that it is often through preaching that God saves. Christ Himself preached to the Apostles, because preaching is intimately tied to salvation by Christ. I wouldn't want to try and separate it, as long as I understand that the Lord "is" the power. Not the preacher. This is why CHRIST ALONE, is the one who went to those spirits in prison to give them a gift of salvation and by Grace!

 

[Davy]

Why not simply let Jesus provide the interpretation?

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Where in any of that does it even remotely give the impression, that prior to Christ returning, once again fallen angels will be marrying and mating with fair earth women, then producing hybrid offspring that is literally part demon and part human?

Just anything... to try and get away from the Old Testament Scriptures that clearly reveal the giant hybrid race was not about humans.

No wonder those folks cannot understand the following either, which is about the end times...

Dan 2:43
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
KJV

 

[soberxp]

So who created the Nephilim, the giants,

even if angels fell in love with beautiful human women, why would they give birth to giants? Was it not God who created the giants?

I am very curious about this question, just as God also created Satan.

 

[Davy]

So who created the Nephilim, the giants,

even if angels fell in love with beautiful human women, why would they give birth to giants? Was it not God who created the giants?

I am very curious about this question, just as God also created Satan.

Nope. God did not... create the hybrid-giant race. Satan caused it when he sent a group of his angels to go to earth and taint the 'seed' of the 'woman' that Christ would be born through. Satan tried many times throughout Bible history to destroy the seed Jesus would be born through, and even baby Jesus. Obviously, Satan thought by doing so he could prevent the judgment upon him being sealed by Christ's death on the cross.

Buffalo Bill in his autobiography, described how one of the Pawnee Indians in his camp brought in an extremely large bone, which the doctor present at the expedition identified as a femur bone. The Pawnee said there was once a race of men three times the height of normal man, and they would run along side the buffalo, pick one up, tear off a leg and eat while running along with the herd. He said those giants defied the Great White Spirit, until a flood came and they fled to the mountains, where the flood finally overcame them.

Apostle Paul warned this for woman about the angels...

1 Cor 11:8-10
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
KJV

 

[soberxp]

Why can't angels fall in love with beautiful human women?

Could someone give me a product manual so that I can figure out exactly where the problem lies?

 

[Davy]

Why can't angels fall in love with beautiful human women?

Could someone give me a product manual so that I can figure out exactly where the problem lies?

The main matter goes back to the 'old world' when Lucifer and his angels rebelled against God. Lucifer wanted to be GOD, and still does.

That 'old world' was a 1st world earth age prior to the time of Adam. God had originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways as a covering cherub with the job of guarding God's Throne. (See God's parable about the "king of Tyrus" in Ezekiel 28.)

God then ended that 'old world' when Lucifer rebelled and drew a third of the angels in rebellion with him. Then God brought this present 2nd world earth age we are in now, and created Adam.

Then in Noah's days, Lucifer (or Satan), sent a portion... of his one third of angels to earth to try and taint the Seed of the Woman that Jesus would be born of. It is that group of angels that are in Tartarus, the deepest part of the abyss of hell, preserved unto their destruction at God's future Judgement.

God's Salvation Plan is NOT for the angels who are not born in the flesh. Only those born in the flesh are offered Christ's Salvation. That obviously made Satan's angels jealous of flesh man, along with the lusts and pleasures of this present world. So it probably was not difficult for Satan to convince his angels to leave their original state, come to earth, and mate with flesh woman.

And for those who keep thinking by Hollywood's standard that angels are just spirits and can't mate with flesh woman, then those need to explain how it is that angels can eat our food and live upon this earth without a flesh body. (See Genesis 18 about the "three men" who appeared to Abraham and he made food for them; and also Genesis 19 about the two men (angels) which went to bring Lot and his people out of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot prepared food for them too. Even Paul in Hebrews 13:2 said for us to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Oh brother. The sheer volume of erroneous interpretations lately is almost breathtaking.

 

[Davidpt]

The main matter goes back to the 'old world' when Lucifer and his angels rebelled against God. Lucifer wanted to be GOD, and still does.

That 'old world' was a 1st world earth age prior to the time of Adam. God had originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways as a covering cherub with the job of guarding God's Throne. (See God's parable about the "king of Tyrus" in Ezekiel 28.)

God then ended that 'old world' when Lucifer rebelled and drew a third of the angels in rebellion with him. Then God brought this present 2nd world earth age we are in now, and created Adam.

Then in Noah's days, Lucifer (or Satan), sent a portion... of his one third of angels to earth to try and taint the Seed of the Woman that Jesus would be born of. It is that group of angels that are in Tartarus, the deepest part of the abyss of hell, preserved unto their destruction at God's future Judgement.

God's Salvation Plan is NOT for the angels who are not born in the flesh. Only those born in the flesh are offered Christ's Salvation. That obviously made Satan's angels jealous of flesh man, along with the lusts and pleasures of this present world. So it probably was not difficult for Satan to convince his angels to leave their original state, come to earth, and mate with flesh woman.

And for those who keep thinking by Hollywood's standard that angels are just spirits and can't mate with flesh woman, then those need to explain how it is that angels can eat our food and live upon this earth without a flesh body. (See Genesis 18 about the "three men" who appeared to Abraham and he made food for them; and also Genesis 19 about the two men (angels) which went to bring Lot and his people out of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot prepared food for them too. Even Paul in Hebrews 13:2 said for us to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

Anyone who gets their teachings straight out of Shepherd's Chapel rather than the Bible, is the last person anyone should be listening to, period.

As to the old world in question, 2 Peter 2-3 undeniably settles it.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:


2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished = the old world = the world of the ungodly during the days of Noah leading up to the flood, and not Shepherd's Chapel absurd nonsense instead. Scripture interprets Scripture. And not Shepherd's Chapel interprets Scripture.