When Jesus returns at the last trumpet, death will be swallowed up in victory and there will then be no more death, which will fulfill Isaiah 25:8.

[jeffweeder]

There is NO scripture saying that the church is the bride! Israel is. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6 Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

Regarding Hos 2...,

23
“I will sow her for Myself in the land.
I will also have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to those who were not My people,
‘You are My people,’
And they will say, ‘You are my God!’”


As far as God is concerned his people include the Gentiles, as God so loved the whole world that he sent his Son.
True Israel's salvation would not be complete without them.

Jn 10
14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is NO scripture saying that the church is the bride!

How can you say that? Of course there is. You really need to spend more time reading the New Testament.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Paul clearly referred to the church as the wife/bride of Christ here. Yet, you try to say that there is no scripture saying that the church is the bride? Unbelievable. Who else has an intimate spiritual relationship with Christ except for those who are in the church? No one.

It was the OT saints who looked for a city and were promised that. (Heb. 11: 16)

And NT saints are promised the same thing and will not inherit God's promises apart from OT saints (Hebrews 11:39-40).

 

[Marilyn C]

Those whose are saved and have their names written in the Lamb's book of life, which is all believers from all time.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Yes, and who are those in the city? Two different groups!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, and who are those in the city? Two different groups!

Them which are saved and those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life are the same people. Not two groups. And the city is not a literal city. It's symbolic. It is described as "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9-10). Is Christ in a spiritual relationship with a literal city? Of course not. Why do you try to read everything literally in the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture? You recognize that the 12 gates are symbolic, but somehow can't recognize that the New Jerusalem itself is symbolic. There are not two different groups of God's people. Jesus brought all of God's people together as one. Period. You are mistaken and you obviously have no interest in allowing anyone to correct your false beliefs.

 

[Marilyn C]

Regarding Hos 2...,

23
“I will sow her for Myself in the land.
I will also have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to those who were not My people,
‘You are My people,’
And they will say, ‘You are my God!’”


As far as God is concerned his people include the Gentiles, as God so loved the whole world that he sent his Son.
True Israel's salvation would not be complete without them.

Jn 10
14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.

`Yet the number of the children of ISRAEL shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, "You are not my people," there it shall be said of THEM, "You are sons of the living God."

Then the children of Judah and the children of ISRAEL shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head; and they shall come up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel! Say to your brethren, "My PEOPLE." And to your sisters, "Mercy is shown." `(Hosea 110 & 11 2: 1)

God is talking about ISRAEL!

 

[Marilyn C]

Them which are saved and those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life are the same people. Not two groups. And the city is not a literal city. It's symbolic. It is described as "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9-10). Is Christ in a spiritual relationship with a literal city? Of course not. Why do you try to read everything literally in the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture? There are not two different groups of God's people. Jesus brought all of God's people together as one. Period. You are mistaken and you obviously have no interest in allowing anyone to correct your false beliefs.

Yes I know the city is symbolic. It is of Christ`s rulership. However, God`s word does say that man will inherit the earth, and that also some will inherit the city, the place of the Lord`s rulership over the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

How can you say that? Of course there is. You really need to spend more time reading the New Testament.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Paul clearly referred to the church as the wife/bride of Christ here. Yet, you try to say that there is no scripture saying that the church is the bride? Unbelievable. Who else has an intimate spiritual relationship with Christ except for those who are in the church? No one.


And NT saints are promised the same thing and will not inherit God's promises apart from OT saints (Hebrews 11:39-40).

Eph. 4: 5: 22 does NOT say that the church is His bride. Those scriptures are an exhortation to husbands to love their wives as their own BODY as Christ does His BODY. And we are `members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

There is no word `her,` but `it` relating back to the doctrine of the BODY, the NEW MAN.

No doctrine can be based on an exhortation. The apostle Paul has laid out the doctrine of the BODY - the New Man (Eph. 2: 15) being brought to a mature man, (Eph. 4: 13) and to put on the new man, (Eph. 4: 24)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

`Yet the number of the children of ISRAEL shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, "You are not my people," there it shall be said of THEM, "You are sons of the living God."

Then the children of Judah and the children of ISRAEL shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head; and they shall come up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel! Say to your brethren, "My PEOPLE." And to your sisters, "Mercy is shown." `(Hosea 110 & 11 2: 1)

God is talking about ISRAEL!

Paul relates passages like those also to GENTILES! Does that mean nothing to you?

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Israelite believers of God's promises (Ephesians 3:1-6). Do you accept that or do you reject the teachings of the New Testament?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes I know the city is symbolic.

You don't act like it. You act like the people coming into the city are different than people in the city. No, the people associated with the city are "those who are saved" which are "those whose names are in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:9-10).

It is of Christ`s rulership. However, God`s word does say that man will inherit the earth, and that also some will inherit the city, the place of the Lord`s rulership over the earth.

See how you're again acting as if it's a literal city? You're calling it "the place of the Lord's rulership over the earth" as if it's a literal earthly city. It's not. It's symbolic and not literal. It symbolizes "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9). Who else has an intimate spiritual relationship with Christ like a husband's relationship to his wife except for those who belong to Christ? And all believers from all-time belong to Christ. One body. One group. One people. You continue to try to divide what Christ brought together as one. You can't do it!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Eph. 4: 5: 22 does NOT say that the church is His bride.

It absolutely does! How can you not see it? It's truly unbelievable.

Those scriptures are an exhortation to husbands to love their wives as their own BODY as Christ does His BODY. And we are `members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

Paul talks about the husband's relationship with his wife and then reveals that he is talking about Christ and His church. So, in that passage, the husband represents Christ and the wife represents the church. So, Paul was clearly referring to the church as being the bride of Christ. It couldn't be more clear and you're still missing it. Astounding!

There is no word `her,` but `it` relating back to the doctrine of the BODY, the NEW MAN.

No doctrine can be based on an exhortation. The apostle Paul has laid out the doctrine of the BODY - the New Man (Eph. 2: 15) being brought to a mature man, (Eph. 4: 13) and to put on the new man, (Eph. 4: 24)

Nonsense! All scripture can be used for doctrine, including Ephesians 5:22-32!

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The body of Christ/the church being called "one new man" does not mean it can't also be called the bride of Christ. Those are figurative expressions related to different aspects of the church.

 

[Marilyn C]

Paul relates passages like those also to GENTILES! Does that mean nothing to you?

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Israelite believers of God's promises (Ephesians 3:1-6). Do you accept that or do you reject the teachings of the New Testament?

I receive the Old Testament and New Testament teachings because they are all about Christ, His character and His purposes.

And Eph. 3: 1 - 6 teach us that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed previously.

And Rom. 9: 24 reveal that the Body of Christ is made up of Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Marilyn C]

You don't act like it. You act like the people coming into the city are different than people in the city. No, the people associated with the city are "those who are saved" which are "those whose names are in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:9-10).


See how you're again acting as if it's a literal city? You're calling it "the place of the Lord's rulership over the earth" as if it's a literal earthly city. It's not. It's symbolic and not literal. It symbolizes "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9). Who else has an intimate spiritual relationship with Christ like a husband's relationship to his wife except for those who belong to Christ? And all believers from all-time belong to Christ. One body. One group. One people. You continue to try to divide what Christ brought together as one. You can't do it!

The Body of Christ is a closer relationship than the `bride.` We are of His very Body - `For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

The `city` the New Jerusalem is made in heaven. `He waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10) It is a `heavenly` country.` (Heb. 11: 16) It is a community of people who reside in the universal realm and have rulership over the nations of the earth.

The `bride` symbol means that the spiritual and physical are now connected through the New Jerusalem.

 

[Marilyn C]

It absolutely does! How can you not see it? It's truly unbelievable.


Paul talks about the husband's relationship with his wife and then reveals that he is talking about Christ and His church. So, in that passage, the husband represents Christ and the wife represents the church. So, Paul was clearly referring to the church as being the bride of Christ. It couldn't be more clear and you're still missing it. Astounding!


Nonsense! All scripture can be used for doctrine, including Ephesians 5:22-32!

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The body of Christ/the church being called "one new man" does not mean it can't also be called the bride of Christ. Those are figurative expressions related to different aspects of the church.

I suggest you go to a Bible College and ask them on what is doctrine based. Note `All scripture.` You are basing your doctrine on an individual scripture which Peter says is wrong. (2 Perer 1: 20 & 21)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I receive the Old Testament and New Testament teachings because they are all about Christ, His character and His purposes.

And Eph. 2: 1 - 6 teach us that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed previously.

You mean Ephesians 3:1-6. It's been revealed to us now. Why is it still a mystery to you? It was purposely hidden in the OT, but revealed in the NT, but you act like it's still hidden to us today.

And Rom. 9: 24 reveal that the Body of Christ is made up of Jews and Gentiles.

Right, and Paul related the Hosea passage that you tried to say only relates to Israel also to Gentiles.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I suggest you go to a Bible College and ask them on what is doctrine based.

LOL. You can't be serious. Does the Bible itself tell us that we need to go to school to learn the Bible? Absolutely not! The Holy Spirit is our teacher! (1 Corinthians 2:9-16).

Note `All scripture.` You are basing your doctrine on an individual scripture which Peter says is wrong. (2 Perer 1: 20 & 21)

I don't base my doctrine on an individual scripture. But, that is not even what 2 Peter 1:20-21 is about. That passage is about the prophecies that God gave to prophets not being a private interpretation of their own minds, but rather the prophecies came from the Holy Spirit. You are taking that passage out of context just like you do so many others.

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

See the context here? Private interpretation would mean that a prophecy "came by the will of man", but the prophecies of the Bible came to the "holy men of God" who wrote the prophecies of the Bible "by the Holy Spirit".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Body of Christ is a closer relationship than the `bride.`

What are you basing that on? How is that even possible? You just make things up.

We are of His very Body - `For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

The `city` the New Jerusalem is made in heaven. `He waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10) It is a `heavenly` country.` (Heb. 11: 16) It is a community of people who reside in the universal realm and have rulership over the nations of the earth.

The `bride` symbol means that the spiritual and physical are now connected through the New Jerusalem.

You continue to talk about the New Jerusalem as if it's a literal city. It's not. I thought you said you understand that it's symbolic? You clearly don't. A literal city cannot be "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9-10).

 

[covenantee]

The Body of Christ is a closer relationship than the `bride.` We are of His very Body - `For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

The `city` the New Jerusalem is made in heaven. `He waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10) It is a `heavenly` country.` (Heb. 11: 16) It is a community of people who reside in the universal realm and have rulership over the nations of the earth.

The `bride` symbol means that the spiritual and physical are now connected through the New Jerusalem.

Do you believe that Israel is the Wife of Jehovah, and the Church is the Bride of Christ?

 

[Marilyn C]

You mean Ephesians 3:1-6. It's been revealed to us now. Why is it still a mystery to you? It was purposely hidden in the OT, but revealed in the NT, but you act like it's still hidden to us today.


Right, and Paul related the Hosea passage that you tried to say only relates to Israel also to Gentiles.

Thanks for the correction of the scripture.

I was just pointing out that God was referring to Israel Hos. 1: 10 & 11 and 2: 23 whereas Jeff was saying it was us. God`s word says it is Israel. Paul is saying that God will have mercy on Israel and the gentiles. He is not saying that Hos. 1: 10 is us for the context says it is Israel.

 

[Marilyn C]

LOL. You can't be serious. Does the Bible itself tell us that we need to go to school to learn the Bible? Absolutely not! The Holy Spirit is our teacher! (1 Corinthians 2:9-16).


I don't base my doctrine on an individual scripture. But, that is not even what 2 Peter 1:20-21 is about. That passage is about the prophecies that God gave to prophets not being a private interpretation of their own minds, but rather the prophecies came from the Holy Spirit. You are taking that passage out of context just like you do so many others.

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

See the context here? Private interpretation would mean that a prophecy "came by the will of man", but the prophecies of the Bible came to the "holy men of God" who wrote the prophecies of the Bible "by the Holy Spirit".

2 Peter 1: 20 & 21 `private interpretation` refers to `of its own` interpretation and not in line with all of scripture which as you rightly say `by the Holy Spirit.`

 

[Marilyn C]

What are you basing that on? How is that even possible? You just make things up.


You continue to talk about the New Jerusalem as if it's a literal city. It's not. I thought you said you understand that it's symbolic? You clearly don't. A literal city cannot be "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9-10).

Closer relationship is obvious - Head - Body - the New Man, the perfect man, put on the new man, we will be like Him. (Eph. 2: 15. 4: 13, 24 I john 3: 2) You have not addressed those scriptures that I posted, (except 1 John 3: 2)

I said that the `city` was a community of people who rule in the universal realm over the earth. It is not a physical city I agree.