Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[GodsGrace]

Why would I want to read something in a random newspaper article from Ohio?
I don’t read or watch any mainstream news because it’s not the whole truth....half truths and implied practices made in ignorance, are worse than outright lies. You can believe them if you wish...you are in good company....most of the world swallows them. I prefer to get my news from trusted independent sources....those who are not told what to say.

Do you have any idea why we did that?.....and still do?
We have published a yearbook, every year for many decades detailing the activities of our brothers in many countries, and under many different circumstances. We so enjoyed reading about their experiences and still do. Every year in those yearbooks was also recorded the collective efforts, where the hours we spent preaching were given a global tally, showing us how we were doing as a global collective....it was very encouraging...and not at all sinister.
We have a command from Jesus himself to take the good news out to the people...so we obey him. Do you?

The other benefit of reporting our activities was that it was an indicator as to our brothers’ and sisters’ spiritual health. Many people, when they are experiencing personal problems, don’t always ask for help. The shepherds in our congregations are given the responsibility of assisting any who need help. The first thing to show up if our spiritual health is declining is our participation in the ministry. That would be followed by a decline in attendance at meetings. These indicators are a signal for the shepherds to offer help if it is needed. Our congregations are like family, so when some are missing, we know that they are, and will check up on them to see if they need our assistance....that is how we operate. It’s a safe, caring and loving environment. We are not just anonymous backsides on seats, there for participation in empty rituals.

Actually, not many of us do post on these kinds of forums. It is not a recommended form of witnessing because we prefer door to door, like the first Christians did....body language and personal face to face contact can make a big difference in how we communicate. We also have our mobile carts that are usually set up in public places so that passers by can stop for a chat, or to accept some literature on a subject that interests them. Not everyone hates us you know....we are often commended for the work we do.

If we were enemies then we would leave you all to the lies you have accepted as truth for centuries....
We love people enough to give up our time and resources to reach as many people as possible....people of all faiths. We actually have quite a few congregations in Italy, despite it being the home of Roman Catholicism.

And who appointed you the judge of who is a Christian? Jesus will judge us all....those who are on the wrong road, have no idea that they are heading in the wrong direction, according to Jesus....(Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)
We will all know then....and it’s the majority who will experience the shock of rejection....not the “few” who are found “doing the will of the Father.”

So what is “the will of the Father” in these difficult “last days”?....Following the commands that Jesus taught.....without adding or subtracting anything. The Catholic people I have studied with had no idea where their beliefs originated, and were shocked to find out that they were not biblical....beliefs about God, about Jesus and about Mary....all concocted by the church whose doctrines you support.

Be careful .....1 Cor 10:12 may come back to bite you....

I skimmed through the above.
Don't have much to say.
I have JW friends so I know more than you think I might.
No matter.
It's a cult Auntie Jane - and nothing you say or believe will change that.
I know it's really difficult to leave the organization and I understand how brainwased you are.

I do want to make two comments:

1. You believe in your orgainization more than you believe/trust God.
I understand this very well because Catholics are like this.
They trust the church.
And they try to get persons to the CHURCH instead of to GOD.

Ditto for the JWs.

When I witness I try to get people to JESUS and NOT to a denomination.


2. You keep repeating the following. I've asked you a couple of times to list some, but you don't - you just write your usual report.


So let's try again.
THIS is what you said above:


If we were enemies then we would leave you all to the lies you have accepted as truth for centuries....


Again...WHICH lies?

 

[amigo de christo]

You know Amigo,,,
I live in a catholic country and the only other denomination (if we want to call it that) up here by me is the JW organization.

Want to know why it's so popular here?
Because Catholics don't teach their religion to the laity.
I've gone to some Catholic bible studies and theyì're very lacking.
Although, I must say, they do preach the gospel.

So a JW shows up at the door with a bible in hand and promises to teach a poor ignorant (not having religious knowledge) person what the bible teaches, and viola! the deal is done.

And I did say RELIGION.
Because faith is one thing...
but we also must know our religion.

It has swallowed up w hole houses my friend .
She has spread far and wide .
Who
the ecumenical harlot is the who . And she will gather all of the decieved in every denomaination
named in christendom as well as the false religoins under her love and her god . For more info
On why i said god and not GOD . because IT IS NOT GOD at all but rather only he who desired to be as GOD .
And his whore sells his image t hroug h her love . ITS SERIOUS and dire necessary
that we get anyone out of anything ecumeincal NOW .
Look i know folks probably have so called friends in catholic churches or whatever
BUT IF YA LOVE THEM , G ET THEM OUT N OW . We are just gonna have to do church
the way the apostels and all true sheep sin ce them have .
GET them OUT of anything ecumeincal . THIS whole ruse about us all being catholic
IT CAME FROM THE VATICAN and boy was it a slippery one too . THEY the ones
along with our sold out prosperity preachers and etc that began to sing that WE ALL catholic
song to the denominations . IT was a snare and a trick .
NOW GET THEM OUT of anything ecumenical and now . I condemn none
I simply warn is all . GET them OUT and far away , for the longer they sit under it
THE more they be and are lulled RIG HT into the very lie it was meant to really BRING THEM TOO .
We can no longer afford to sit and listen to the songs of love birds gone wrong .
THEY know NEITHER GOD OR HIS LOVE . but boy THEY SURE THINK THEY DO . that will END THEM ALL .
ITs time to do what we can f or all so uls . AND IF WE LOVE , WELL WE WOULD have warned .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well, if it's behavior the member causing the problem should be warned or removed from the thread.
Locking a thread is like removing EVERYONE from the discussion.
I'm sorry it was locked I had a few members with whom I was having a good conversation.

BINGO .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well, if it's behavior the member causing the problem should be warned or removed from the thread.
Locking a thread is like removing EVERYONE from the discussion.
I'm sorry it was locked I had a few members with whom I was having a good conversation.

Remove those who preach contrary to the TRUTH
Being grave an d se rious is not a reason to be removed .

 

[Aunty Jane]

I live in a catholic country and the only other denomination (if we want to call it that) up here by me is the JW organization.

There’s a reason for that....we find those who are like the ones Jesus and the apostles were sent to....those who had faith in God, but were not fed spiritually. Those who are hungry for truth will not find it in the CC. All they are fed is empty rituals and false doctrines....with little in the way of Bible truth.

God is not interested in mere blind performance, but in what one does while seeking accurate knowledge in their heart....if they are sincere truth seekers, God will guide them to it. (John 6:44; 65)

Want to know why it's so popular here?
Because Catholics don't teach their religion to the laity.

Interestingly enough even the divide between clergy and laity is a Catholic invention. There were no clergy in first century Christianity. The titles seen in the CC were not positions of authority in the congregations but positions of oversight. “Elders” were not clergy....”bishops” were not clergy....”deacons” were not clergy. All were simply members of the congregation with roles to play. (Heb 13:17) Jesus said “all you are brothers” indicating no authority, but of responsibility where all would answer to Jesus. Accountability kept them on their toes. Whilst they were keeping an eye on their brothers, Christ was keeping an eye on them.

Accepting their recommendations was good for everyone, as these were not chosen based on their formal education, but on their spiritual qualifications.

I've gone to some Catholic bible studies and theyì're very lacking.
Although, I must say, they do preach the gospel.

I can vouch for that, having had many Catholic Bible students over the decades. All were completely ignorant of the Bible. Sadly a few of them thought that their catechism was a Bible.
Ignorance works for the church....and those people who assume that the Bible is a subject too difficult for the common folk....one had to be seminary trained and ordained to officiate in “the church”.

That’s not how it was at all in the first century.

So a JW shows up at the door with a bible in hand and promises to teach a poor ignorant (not having religious knowledge) person what the bible teaches, and viola! the deal is done.

And what a happy result when the truth was given straight from the Scriptures....an answer to every question, and a Bible based reason for every belief. Catholic doctrines toppled like a house of cards. It was so good to see the lies get buried, and people cast off the shackles of empty ritual...and false doctrine.
Jesus said “the truth shall set you free”...they got to experience that first hand, as I did.

And I did say RELIGION.
Because faith is one thing...
but we also must know our religion.

Actually we have to know what our “religion” teaches, and then use the Bible to either prove or disprove what is held as a doctrine. Doctrines will crumble under Bible truth....but only to honest hearted ones.

In a world where satan rules and his “weeds” are suffocating truth in the whole of Christendom, those “drawn” by God will respond....and come out of “Babylon the great” (Rev 18:4-5)......those who don’t, will carry their delusions to the grave. This is what the Bible teaches...not what religion teaches.

Is your truth, God’s truth?
History is repeating...can you see it?
Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism....and they orchestrated the murder of their own Messiah, on the words of those who led their worship. (Matt 15:7-9)

If the majority are on the wrong road, where does that leave Christendom?
God doesn’t read labels. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have JW friends so I know more than you think I might.

Friends or acquaintances? You know very little and it is apparent why....you only think you know.

No matter.
It's a cult Auntie Jane - and nothing you say or believe will change that.
I know it's really difficult to leave the organization and I understand how brainwased you are.

When Jesus walked the earth, they thought that about him too no doubt....he didn’t promote the mainstream doctrines but got people thinking about what they already held as Scriptural truth. He showed them how the religious leaders of the time misquoted and mistranslated Scripture to suit their own beliefs.

Who were the “brainwashed” back then? Only those who stayed with the faith that their religious leaders had promoted.

1. You believe in your orgainization more than you believe/trust God.
I understand this very well because Catholics are like this.
They trust the church.
And they try to get persons to the CHURCH instead of to GOD.

Ditto for the JWs.

What did Jesus and his apostles do when taking their message out to the people? The ones who responded, had to come into the Christian arrangement, and out of whatever religious persuasion they formerly had. No one was permitted to bring in false ideas or else they were disciplined.

When I witness I try to get people to JESUS and NOT to a denomination.

Where is Jesus? If he tells the majority at the judgement soon to be delivered, that “I NEVER KNEW YOU”... then he has never set foot in any church that does not teach the whole truth as he did. The majority are rejected as those not “doing the will” of his Father....it is the “few” who are accepted as his true disciples.
(Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) Where does that leave the hopelessly divided churches of Christendom?
Where is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”? Seriously.

You keep repeating the following. I've asked you a couple of times to list some, but you don't

You want a list? I will take some time to compile one for you FWIW....

 

[Aunty Jane]

@GodsGrace ...you asked for it.....

Here is your list. I’ll start off with a quote...

To summarize the state of the Roman Church at the beginning of the 16th century, after hundreds of years of abuse of its power, here are the words of Machiavelli, a famous Italian philosopher of that period:

“Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. Nor can there be a greater proof of its decadence than the fact that the nearer people are to the Roman Church, the head of their religion, the less religious are they.”

The crisis in the church was noted by the church itself. Church councils were convened to address some of the complaints and abuses, but with no lasting results. The popes, basking in personal power and glory, discouraged any real efforts at reform....and hence why Luther sought to bring an end to the abuses.

So with that in mind...the results of what is clearly a church with serious issues...what were the beliefs that they held...that Christ never taught....

Let’s start with Mary....
No Scripture states what the CC teaches about Mary....all of their beliefs concerning Mary come from outside influences...pagan ones. Ancient Mother goddess worship is reflected in every image and title attributed to Mary...who was the mother of Jesus.....nowhere does Scripture ever call her the “mother of God”.

The use of images is also a huge breach of God’s law stated in the Ten Commandments....
Exodus 20:2-6...
“I am the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods instead of me. You shall not make idols or any image of things that are in the heavens above or that are upon the earth or that are in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow before them nor shall you serve them. I, the Lord, am your God, a jealous God, who punishes the sins of fathers upon their sons until the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but I will show my favor for a thousand generations of those who love me and observe my commandments. (New Catholic Bible)
Read those words carefully....God’s worshippers were not to MAKE...ANY IMAGE OF THINGS in the heavens or on earth...YOU SHALL NOT BOW BEFORE THEM nor shall you serve them.”
Who can say in all honesty that the CC of any nationality or rite, observes these commands directly from a God who does not change? Who was the God of Israel? Yahweh....

Deut 6:4 was the Jewish shema...”Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah”. (ASV)

Now look and see how the NCB renders that verse....just be sure that they understood the law....
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord, our God, is Lord alone.”

In the original Hebrew, the divine name is seen twice, clearly in the text as the ASV shows....God’s name is not “the Lord”. Because “Lord” is a title used extensively in the Bible as an address of respect. It is used of anyone of superior authority....of masters by their slaves, as an address of respect to anyone who deserved or requires it...like Jesus.
By inferring that “God is Lord alone” a shift in meaning has been achieved....by suggesting that “Lord” is another name for Yahweh, they introduced a foreign god, who was not one, but three different persons in one entity. Triads of gods existed only in pagan religions. The Egyptians had them long before Jesus was born....these false gods were a product of ancient Babylon, as was mother goddess worship....thought by many scholars to have originated with Nimrods’ mother, Semiramis.....who placed her dead son among the gods, thereby making herself the ‘mother of god’.

Then we could go to Mary’s immaculate conception...another doctrine that finds no origin in Scripture.
Mary offered a sin offering for herself after Jesus’ birth, according to the law, which stated...

“When the days of her purification for a son or a daughter are complete, she shall bring a year-old lamb as a burnt offering and a pigeon or a turtledove as a sin offering to the priest at the entrance to the meeting tent. He shall offer it before the Lord and make atonement for her. She shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for a woman who has borne a male or female child. If she cannot afford to offer a lamb, she shall offer two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement for her and she shall be clean.” (Lev 12:6-8 NCB)

Mary and Joseph made the offering of two turtle doves...the offering of the poor. Mary was not sinless.
It also proves another myth created by the CC...that the wise men gave their gifts to the newborn child at the stable. If Mary and Joseph were in possession of such expensive gifts that would have been reflected in their offering....they had gold.

Mary’s role as mediatrix is also false, as Jesus is said to be the only mediator between God and men....meaning that he is not God otherwise we would need a mediator between him and ourselves as well....(1Tim 2:5-6)

Would you like me to continue? The list is long but unless you study the Bible instead of church theology you would never know...the indoctrination (brainwashing) of your own church is showing....

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace ...you asked for it.....

Here is your list. I’ll start off with a quote...

To summarize the state of the Roman Church at the beginning of the 16th century, after hundreds of years of abuse of its power, here are the words of Machiavelli, a famous Italian philosopher of that period:

“Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. Nor can there be a greater proof of its decadence than the fact that the nearer people are to the Roman Church, the head of their religion, the less religious are they.”

The crisis in the church was noted by the church itself. Church councils were convened to address some of the complaints and abuses, but with no lasting results. The popes, basking in personal power and glory, discouraged any real efforts at reform....and hence why Luther sought to bring an end to the abuses.

So with that in mind...the results of what is clearly a church with serious issues...what were the beliefs that they held...that Christ never taught....

Let’s start with Mary....
No Scripture states what the CC teaches about Mary....all of their beliefs concerning Mary come from outside influences...pagan ones. Ancient Mother goddess worship is reflected in every image and title attributed to Mary...who was the mother of Jesus.....nowhere does Scripture ever call her the “mother of God”.

The use of images is also a huge breach of God’s law stated in the Ten Commandments....
Exodus 20:2-6...
“I am the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods instead of me. You shall not make idols or any image of things that are in the heavens above or that are upon the earth or that are in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow before them nor shall you serve them. I, the Lord, am your God, a jealous God, who punishes the sins of fathers upon their sons until the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but I will show my favor for a thousand generations of those who love me and observe my commandments. (New Catholic Bible)
Read those words carefully....God’s worshippers were not to MAKE...ANY IMAGE OF THINGS in the heavens or on earth...YOU SHALL NOT BOW BEFORE THEM nor shall you serve them.”
Who can say in all honesty that the CC of any nationality or rite, observes these commands directly from a God who does not change? Who was the God of Israel? Yahweh....

Deut 6:4 was the Jewish shema...”Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah”. (ASV)

Now look and see how the NCB renders that verse....just be sure that they understood the law....
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord, our God, is Lord alone.”

In the original Hebrew, the divine name is seen twice, clearly in the text as the ASV shows....God’s name is not “the Lord”. Because “Lord” is a title used extensively in the Bible as an address of respect. It is used of anyone of superior authority....of masters by their slaves, as an address of respect to anyone who deserved or requires it...like Jesus.
By inferring that “God is Lord alone” a shift in meaning has been achieved....by suggesting that “Lord” is another name for Yahweh, they introduced a foreign god, who was not one, but three different persons in one entity. Triads of gods existed only in pagan religions. The Egyptians had them long before Jesus was born....these false gods were a product of ancient Babylon, as was mother goddess worship....thought by many scholars to have originated with Nimrods’ mother, Semiramis.....who placed her dead son among the gods, thereby making herself the ‘mother of god’.

Then we could go to Mary’s immaculate conception...another doctrine that finds no origin in Scripture.
Mary offered a sin offering for herself after Jesus’ birth, according to the law, which stated...

“When the days of her purification for a son or a daughter are complete, she shall bring a year-old lamb as a burnt offering and a pigeon or a turtledove as a sin offering to the priest at the entrance to the meeting tent. He shall offer it before the Lord and make atonement for her. She shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for a woman who has borne a male or female child. If she cannot afford to offer a lamb, she shall offer two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement for her and she shall be clean.” (Lev 12:6-8 NCB)

Mary and Joseph made the offering of two turtle doves...the offering of the poor. Mary was not sinless.
It also proves another myth created by the CC...that the wise men gave their gifts to the newborn child at the stable. If Mary and Joseph were in possession of such expensive gifts that would have been reflected in their offering....they had gold.

Mary’s role as mediatrix is also false, as Jesus is said to be the only mediator between God and men....meaning that he is not God otherwise we would need a mediator between him and ourselves as well....(1Tim 2:5-6)

Would you like me to continue? The list is long but unless you study the Bible instead of church theology you would never know...the indoctrination (brainwashing) of your own church is showing....

I don't see A LIST.
I see a report - as usual.

Try again or give up.
Can't spend an hour on your posts Auntie.

 

[GodsGrace]

Friends or acquaintances? You know very little and it is apparent why....you only think you know.

Do YOU know the difference between FRIEND and ACQUAINTANCE?

Then why would you think others do not?
Some members here are so condescending.

When Jesus walked the earth, they thought that about him too no doubt....he didn’t promote the mainstream doctrines but got people thinking about what they already held as Scriptural truth. He showed them how the religious leaders of the time misquoted and mistranslated Scripture to suit their own beliefs.

Who were the “brainwashed” back then? Only those who stayed with the faith that their religious leaders had promoted.

What did Jesus and his apostles do when taking their message out to the people? The ones who responded, had to come into the Christian arrangement, and out of whatever religious persuasion they formerly had. No one was permitted to bring in false ideas or else they were disciplined.

Where is Jesus? If he tells the majority at the judgement soon to be delivered, that “I NEVER KNEW YOU”... then he has never set foot in any church that does not teach the whole truth as he did. The majority are rejected as those not “doing the will” of his Father....it is the “few” who are accepted as his true disciples.
(Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) Where does that leave the hopelessly divided churches of Christendom?
Where is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”? Seriously.

You want a list? I will take some time to compile one for you FWIW....

No other comment warranted.

 

[Wrangler]

you asked for it.....

Hey, can I get the cliff notes version of your posts?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hey, can I get the cliff notes version of your posts?

What are “cliff notes” Wrangler? Never heard of that one.....does the Bible come with cliff notes?

My Bible comes with explanations gleaned from other Scripture....what about yours?....it’s no use to have a “what” without a “why”.....we are logical creatures made in God’s image, so our logic, imagination and curiosity...our necessity for all the “Why’s” of life to be answered, are inherent in those who want more than mere surface knowledge....or a few scriptures that seem to back up what we want to believe.

What would a study of any branch of science, or archeology, biology, or astronomy be without the curiosity of a mind who needed more than what they see?....they need reasons on which to base their findings so that they also have explanations.
Are science text books written in 3 paragraphs or less? Is the Bible?

What you want is not what God provides...he is testing us to see if we will dig for what is not on the surface. He has no time for lazy people....the knowledge is there...some of it is deeper than most people are prepared to dig....he knows what effort people put into their studies.....it’s not about the abndance of knowledge but about it’s accuracy and application, some are natural students, while others are not.....but to the best of our capacity, God expects effort because we have to give him something to bless that is more that blind acceptance of something we find appealing.

Remember the parable of the talents? What was that about?
Each gave their best effort according to their individual capacity....the last one did nothing....he simply buried it so that he wouldn’t lose it. He figured that if he didn’t lose it, he would still be in his master’s good books......boy was he wrong!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't see A LIST.
I see a report - as usual.

Well, you see, if I only gave you a list without explanation, it just gives you space for your usual excuses....
The explanations are for the readers here, not just you....if you don’t want to take the time, perhaps they do....and will see your response here as an excuse not to show your ignorance again.

The “report” explains what you never can.

Try again or give up.
Can't spend an hour on your posts Auntie.

I guess you hope I’ll give up, but a true defender of the faith never gives up the truth, because it can never be undermined by lies.
You don’t have to spend much time at all, since just the first part on Mary is enough to blow your whole theology out of the water. If the CC is so wrong about Mary, then how right are they about anything else?

Do YOU know the difference between FRIEND and ACQUAINTANCE?

Yes, that is why I asked you.

Then why would you think others do not?
Some members here are so condescending.

No other comment warranted.

Nice Deflection....no other comment is needed....thank you.

I’ll just let the readers here make up their own minds....

 

[soberxp]

God lives in Jesus Christ(the temple), but not live in us. Remember the name of Jesus.
It's not meaning that God be with us but Jesus Christ.
So you think Jesus Christ is God, it is not your fault, but........

As a result of being brainwashed by the previous ones, they invented the concept of the Trinity in order to explain the so-called "the father and I are one".


But this has already been explained to us.
Adam and Eve are one but two flesh.

Wife is not the husband,just they are one.
Jesus Christ is not the God, just they are one.

As a while in One body, one spirit, one mind,one word, one logo, one faith,one logic,one obey,
As one.

 

[Wrangler]

What are “cliff notes” Wrangler? Never heard of that one.....does the Bible come with cliff notes?

Hard to believe you never heard of cliff notes. CliffsNotes are a series of student study guides. The guides present and create literary and other works in pamphlet form or online.

I have a generic cliff notes version of the bible, where each book is summarized on one sheet of 3 x 5 inch paper that includes:

1. Author
2. date
3. in 10 words or less (Not 10 paragraphs)
4. Details, please (1 paragraph)
5. Quotable unique and unusual
6. so what?7

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hard to believe you never heard of cliff notes. CliffsNotes are a series of student study guides. The guides present and create literary and other works in pamphlet form or online.

I do not have an academic background so I have never taken university or college courses. My background is in art, so my college was an art school. We didn’t need cliff notes...

I have a generic cliff notes version of the bible, where each book is summarized on one sheet of 3 x 5 inch paper that includes:

1. Author
2. date
3. in 10 words or less (Not 10 paragraphs)
4. Details, please (1 paragraph)
5. Quotable unique and unusual
6. so what?

Wow! Who knew you could condense such a large volume of work by having someone else read it for you, and then tell you what each book said, in 10 words or less.....? How do you know that their take and interpretation is the correct one?

I’m not sure that the Bible authors used 10 words or less, but since Christendom is such a divided mess when it has the whole Bible...heaven help them if they only had 10 words or less to gamble their life with.....

 

[soberxp]

Hard to believe you never heard of cliff notes. CliffsNotes are a series of student study guides. The guides present and create literary and other works in pamphlet form or online.

I have a generic cliff notes version of the bible, where each book is summarized on one sheet of 3 x 5 inch paper that includes:

1. Author
2. date
3. in 10 words or less (Not 10 paragraphs)
4. Details, please (1 paragraph)
5. Quotable unique and unusual
6. so what?7

View attachment 78478

I still prefer studying the Bible on my own and am not accustomed to learning from others’ perspectives, because I have my own way of studying.

That is the holistic approach. Many people can only think about parts of the scriptures, but I like to consider the connections within the overall context.

 

[Beebster]

I stated to the other member that it's not necessary to understand the bible in order to be saved.
This was my only point.

From an absolute point of view that is true. All will be saved but as I said there is an order that orthodox Christianity will not teach you.

It's not the bible that saves us...
JESUS saves us.

Well what if you were holding a Bible and someone stabbed you but the knife went into the bible............JUST KIDDING!
Yes it is Jesus Christ who saves us, but professing his name is not like waving a magic wand.
Scripture is the Word of God and the Word of God is Jesus Christ.

We can now Jesus with no bible.
I like to refer to Romans 1:20-21 and probably have already. (maybe not).

Let's take a look:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Rom 1:20-21)

Sorry, I don't see it.

I have no idea what the first resurrection is.
Not very good with eschatology...

Here is the first Resurrection:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev 20:6)

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (Rev 5:10)

But I'll repeat:

Salvation does not depend on anything
EXCEPT trusting in God and obeying Him.

How do you trust and obey if you don't understand?

And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, AND DO IT. (Luk 8:21)

But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, AND KEEP IT. (Luk 11:28)

Christ died for everyone.
Even those that don't understand anything about theology.

1 John 2:2
2 and He Himself is the [a]propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

He most certainly did.

I believe there is only ONE coming of the Lord.
I believe you're speaking about two.

No, just one. The day of the Lord.
There is just one resurrection as well and that is Christ.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (Jhn 11:25)

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; (First Resurrection) and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (Jhn 5:29)

I don't have to understand what any parable means.
I just have to have faith in Jesus for my salvation.

Well, if you're satisfied with salvation through God's wrath, then you are correct. I know that sounds demeaning and terrible but I'm sorry to say it's the truth. (I'm really not trying to be mean here).

If you know of scripture that states that we must understand the parables of Jesus or be damned...
please post it.
Don't know anything about this....
you might want to post scripture.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (Joh 5:25)

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. (Mar 4:11-12)

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. (Mar 4:23-25)

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Luk8:12)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (Jhn 10:27)

I'm not sure how you can advise someone that they need not hear the Word of God in order to be saved.

Ah.
EVERY knee shall bow.

Romans 14:11
11 For it is written,
“As I live, says the [a]Lord, to Me every knee shall bow,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”


What does this mean to you?
Interesting ....

It means that everyone will be saved. Of course you need to verify this through other witnesses. Hold tight.

Let's look at the verse just above:

Romans 14:10
10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you view your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

Let's put them together:

But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you view your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
“As I live, says the [a]Lord, to Me every knee shall bow,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

Yes we all will stand before the judgment seat of God but PLEASE pay close attention:

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for WHEN thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (Isa 26:9)

There you have it.

WHEN thy judgments are in the earth, (we will all stand before the judgment seat of God) the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God).

 

[soberxp]

(every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God).


It's shall
not must.

but if the shall means willingly.

Will God have all men to be saved?

 

[Beebster]

(every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God).


It's shall
not must.

but if the shall means willingly.

Will God have all men to be saved?

Hi soberxp,
Nice to meet you.
You know you can address me.
I may seem to come across harsh at times but I only do so when I come across a bully or what I deem to be one.
I try to be civil but.........some folks just need to be put in their place.

The short answer to your question is, Yes "God will have all men to be saved."

Many people think that if God only wishes or desires something to happen that man's free will can somehow override that.

Do you? Do you think we have the free will to thwart God's will?

Peace.

 

[soberxp]

Hi soberxp,
Nice to meet you.
You know you can address me.
I may seem to come across harsh at times but I only do so when I come across a bully or what I deem to be one.
I try to be civil but.........some folks just need to be put in their place.

The short answer to your question is, Yes "God will have all men to be saved."

Many people think that if God only wishes or desires something to happen that man's free will can somehow override that.

Do you? Do you think we have the free will to thwart God's will?

Peace.

We do not possess so-called free will. If God so desired, He could control us like robots, but this presents a serious issue. If someone were manipulated by God in such a manner, the consequences would be severe. After being controlled by God, the person’s eyes would be filled with blood vessels—a phenomenon I have personally witnessed.

In my view, there are no entirely evil individuals, nor are there completely righteous ones. People are merely oppressed by evil to varying degrees. God is the one who initiates the revolution and leads everyone in rising against all of this. I would argue that no one wishes to coexist with evil, even in affluent neighborhoods in America. Perhaps some wealthy individuals are unscrupulous, yet they too do not want robbers and thieves in their communities... even if a wealthy person themselves happens to be a mafia boss.

Or, to reiterate a common saying, even the most vicious individuals are merely those who have been oppressed by the world and life, driven to resort to any means necessary for survival and wealth.

However, as long as you have desires, cravings, or needs, when you stand before God, He does not need to control you like a robot because He can provide you with everything you require. Thus, you would obediently comply.

Conversely, if He were to deny you everything, even water, you would likewise become as docile as a child.

Yet, the rebel Satan described in the Bible seems to be an exception. I am uncertain why this is the case, but it likely falls outside the realm of humanity.