Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Aunty Jane]

Hello AJ.
Why was there access?

It was a simple test of their obedience. God would not bar the way to this tree because free will meant that they had to choose to obey God’s command. If they disobeyed there would be far reaching consequences.

The prohibition caused them no distress however, because there were many trees in the garden laden with delicious fruit....they were not deprived of anything. They would not have even thought about breaking God’s command if the devil had not lied to the woman and suggested that God was withholding something that they had a right to know.....Free will was part of being made in God’s image.

And perfect beings do not make mistakes....they make choices. Both chose badly....and the consequences were dire.

Please explain your definition of free will.

Free will is the right of choice....it was to be a wonderful gift in their everyday life because we make choices all the time without thinking to much about them, until it’s a difficult one. But then we weigh up the options and make a choice hoping it’s the right one. Informed choice is the only way to make the right one, considering all the options....the pros and cons.

I would argue the opposite. Why did Eve need to be tempted if she had free will?

It was because she had free will.
If the devil had not tempted her, she would not have even considered taking the fruit. But she believed the lie.....and her conduct separated her from God.....when Adam saw what she had done...he then had two choices...to reprimand her and lose her....or join her and die with her?

The devil can’t force us to do anything against our will....all he can do is bait a trap and wait.....and that is what he did....knowing that Adam had waited a long time for a mate of his own, he targeted the woman first, if he could get her to disobey, then the bait was set to trap the man. It worked!
The devil had what he wanted.

I don't think we have free will.
I think it's a man made doctrine to excuse God from saving his creation.

Not sure I follow that logic....all of God’s intelligent children, both in heaven and on earth, are endowed with free will....otherwise the devil would not have chosen to entrap the humans to satisfy his own desire for worship.....no other animal has free will like we do. No other creature made in God’s image can contemplate their own death.....we are the only ones with a concept of past, present and future. The only ones who can plan future events. All other creatures operate on instinct....pre-programmed to behave in such a way as to perpetuate their species, have a means of flight to protect themselves, and raise young without being taught.

God wants to save all his creation, but not all his creation want to be saved by being told what to do. God has no time for those who can’t do as he instructs them. Obedience meant life...disobedience meant death. It wasn’t a difficult concept.
God had commands for his human creation from day one. Life was conditional...like it or not.

The prophet Ezekiel was told to tell God’s people....
“When I tell the wicked person, ‘Wicked person, you will certainly die’; and you fail to speak and warn the wicked person to leave his way; then that wicked person will die guilty; and I will hold you responsible for his death. On the other hand, if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he doesn’t turn from his way; then he will still die guilty, but you will have saved your own life. . . . . ‘I take no pleasure in having the wicked person die, but in having the wicked person turn from his way and live. So repent! Turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, house of Isra’el?’ (Ezekiel 33: 8, 9, 11 CJB)

God requires something from us....we have a responsibility that our own lives depend on.

 

[Lambano]

Lambano,
I don't believe (and it's not done) that we can use poetic scripture to create doctrine.
It can SUPPORT a doctrine, but the doctrine must exist from other biblical sources that are literal and not poetic.
So I wouldn't use Proverbs for understanding the word or we'd have to believe that Jesus, as the wisdom of God, was created.

I just went a few rounds with Davy, who doesn't believe in poetry. Or rather, doesn't believe the Bible contains poetry.

Philippians 2:6-11 is a doxology to Christ with a definite chiasmus (a form of poetry) structure which is often repurposed to support the doctrine of Christ's preexistence. (Though its original purpose is to support the doctrine of humility, it presupposes Christ's existence before the Incarnation.) What I am doing here (and what the author of the video you posted was doing) is using Proverbs to understand John 1:1-5 and in particular the meaning of the word "logos". Using scripture to interpret scripture is a standard hermeneutical practice.

 

[Lambano]

Lambano,
I don't believe (and it's not done) that we can use poetic scripture to create doctrine.
It can SUPPORT a doctrine, but the doctrine must exist from other biblical sources that are literal and not poetic.
So I wouldn'tuse Proverbs for understanding the word or we'd have to believe that Jesus, as the wisdom of God, was created.

One of the things I noticed during some formal Bible studies was how often Jesus quoted the Psalms to prooftext His teachings. It made me take poetry more seriously.

 

[Lambano]

So I wouldn't use Proverbs for understanding the word or we'd have to believe that Jesus, as the wisdom of God, was created.

"Begotten" is the correct biblical term. Note the birth imagery in verses 22-25.

Do I need to cite chapter and verse to support "begotten"? I bet both of us can recite one particular verse without looking it up.

 

[Lambano]

I can't help but notice the poetic irony: While Proverbs 8 metaphorically personifies God's creative Wisdom, John 1:14 literally personifies it in Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

I just went a few rounds with Davy, who doesn't believe in poetry. Or rather, doesn't believe the Bible contains poetry.

Philippians 2:6-11 is a doxology to Christ with a definite chiasmus (a form of poetry) structure which is often repurposed to support the doctrine of Christ's preexistence. (Though its original purpose is to support the doctrine of humility, it presupposes Christ's existence before the Incarnation.) What I am doing here (and what the author of the video you posted was doing) is using Proverbs to understand John 1:1-5 and in particular the meaning of the word "logos". Using scripture to interpret scripture is a standard hermeneutical practice.

Poetry exists in the bible .... whether or not Davy accepts this.
And I do believe we agree as to HOW to use poetry...
John used it to show the meaning of the word Logos...
it can be used to foreshadow Jesus...as a metaphor, for teaching, etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

"Begotten" is the correct biblical term. Note the birth imagery in verses 22-25.

Do I need to cite chapter and verse to support "begotten"? I bet both of us can recite one particular verse without looking it up.

The only begotten of the Father?

 

[amigo de christo]

What are “cliff notes” Wrangler? Never heard of that one.....does the Bible come with cliff notes?

My Bible comes with explanations gleaned from other Scripture....what about yours?....it’s no use to have a “what” without a “why”.....we are logical creatures made in God’s image, so our logic, imagination and curiosity...our necessity for all the “Why’s” of life to be answered, are inherent in those who want more than mere surface knowledge....or a few scriptures that seem to back up what we want to believe.

What would a study of any branch of science, or archeology, biology, or astronomy be without the curiosity of a mind who needed more than what they see?....they need reasons on which to base their findings so that they also have explanations.
Are science text books written in 3 paragraphs or less? Is the Bible?

What you want is not what God provides...he is testing us to see if we will dig for what is not on the surface. He has no time for lazy people....the knowledge is there...some of it is deeper than most people are prepared to dig....he knows what effort people put into their studies.....it’s not about the abndance of knowledge but about it’s accuracy and application, some are natural students, while others are not.....but to the best of our capacity, God expects effort because we have to give him something to bless that is more that blind acceptance of something we find appealing.

Remember the parable of the talents? What was that about?
Each gave their best effort according to their individual capacity....the last one did nothing....he simply buried it so that he wouldn’t lose it. He figured that if he didn’t lose it, he would still be in his master’s good books......boy was he wrong!

Got bad news . if your bible cometh of the JW , it aint gleaning its in part been deceiving .
just a friendly reminder to us all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Poetry exists in the bible .... whether or not Davy accepts this.
And I do believe we agree as to HOW to use poetry...
John used it to show the meaning of the word Logos...
it can be used to foreshadow Jesus...as a metaphor, for teaching, etc.

oh there is a pure poetic beauty all right .

 

[amigo de christo]

Poetry exists in the bible .... whether or not Davy accepts this.
And I do believe we agree as to HOW to use poetry...
John used it to show the meaning of the word Logos...
it can be used to foreshadow Jesus...as a metaphor, for teaching, etc.

Beware the golden waters of many in wool
and the brown manna by which they do give meat and drink unto this people .
For it is NOT of GOD at all but rather is of men .
And there be a reason it be yellow water and a reason them loaves be brown .
And it aint lemonade and it aint chocolate either .
ITS OF MEN , THUS coun t it as DUNG .

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

The only begotten of the Father?

Yes, Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14, John 3:16.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Poetry exists in the bible ....

Let me guess, you think those portions or scripture are meaningless and are not Truth to be used for doctrine?

 

[amigo de christo]

Let me guess, you think those portions or scripture are meaningless and are not Truth to be used for doctrine?

if any does think that , THEY better have a real quick RETHINK . THEM words are meat for the sheep .
THEY are TRUTH and inspired by GOD . to the trenches one and to the trenches all .

 

[amigo de christo]

The only begotten of the Father?

what i say to one i say to all .
Beware for many wolves now lead this people
and have convinced them , HEY if elected to lead you i will be a vegeterian . YEAH
I would not trust a wolf . Know what i mean .

 

[GodsGrace]

Beware the golden waters of many in wool
and the brown manna by which they do give meat and drink unto this people .
For it is NOT of GOD at all but rather is of men .
And there be a reason it be yellow water and a reason them loaves be brown .
And it aint lemonade and it aint chocolate either .
ITS OF MEN , THUS coun t it as DUNG .

Many of your posts sound like poetry.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let me guess, you think those portions or scripture are meaningless and are not Truth to be used for doctrine?

Do you believe yourself to be clairvoyant?

Do you EVER have anything serious to say?

Do you spend all your time wondering what I believe/think?

Maybe you need a hobby?

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Yes, Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14, John 3:16.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks for the extra verses Trevor.
Now if we could only make everyone what begotten means.
But, alas, we prefer to obey our human teachers instead of the word of God.

Begotten: To come forth from,,,To be generated from,,,
(biblical language)

 

[amigo de christo]

Thanks for the extra verses Trevor.
Now if we could only make everyone what begotten means.
But, alas, we prefer to obey our human teachers instead of the word of God.

Begotten: To come forth from,,,To be generated from,,,
(biblical language)

Like this .
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD
and the Word was GOD
and the word became flesh . For HOLY GHOST shall overshadow thee
Therefore he will be called THE SON OF GOD . like that .
Exactly .
And now in HIM have we all HOPE . To the trenches one and all .

 

[GodsGrace]

Like this .
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD
and the Word was GOD
and the word became flesh . For HOLY GHOST shall overshadow thee
Therefore he will be called THE SON OF GOD . like that .
Exactly .
And now in HIM have we all HOPE . To the trenches one and all .

Yes sir.
But non-Christians do not believe the New Testament.
They prefer to believe their HUMAN teachers...
those that do not teach Christianity.

 

[Beebster]

So if I speak a WORD, it's the same as God speaking a WORD??

Not sure what gave you that idea.
Is it because I said words are spirit?

My words do not create.
They only communicate.

That is the difference between being carnal minded and spiritually minded.

No you can't create physical things when you speak, but you can create spiritual things.

Love, joy, happiness, anger, envy and jealousy just to name a few.

That is why we will answer for our words.