Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Wrangler]

Do any of you actually know the doctrine?

Yes, it advances a 3-person person idea found nowhere in Scripture. It is found in Greek mythology.

 

[Wrangler]

Again, you haven’t posted a single one.

Untrue. You have no rejection criteria. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. That's good enough for me.

What does this mean about other gods, including the trinity God?

 

[Wrangler]

It’s much easier to first acknowledge the clear biblical teaching that the Father is truly God, the Son is truly God, and the Holy Spirit is truly God

You are confusing:

1. a Bible teaching (exegesis), such as the Father is the only true God,
2. with reading into verses (eisegesis) what you want regarding your other claims.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, you haven’t posted a single one. They may defeat your straw man but not the actual doctrine of the Trinity.

You have a skill of typing things that mean nothing.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, you haven’t posted a single one. They may defeat your straw man but not the actual doctrine of the Trinity.


It’s much easier to first acknowledge the clear biblical teaching that the Father is truly God, the Son is truly God, and the Holy Spirit is truly God, yet they are all distinct. We agree on those things.

The issue is that the Bible repeatedly refutes tritheism—there was and is only one true God, as the verses I have given prove. Therefore, the best explanation that remains is the doctrine of the Trinity.

If it is a clear biblical teaching then it would be easy to provide scriptures.
One God? Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit.....LOL....Which two are not Gods?
What you believe in is not biblical....ergo....all the song and dance.
You believe in the hocus pocus of a man made doctrine.....not biblical.

 

[Wrangler]

If it is a clear biblical teaching then it would be easy to provide scriptures.

They do provide plural-scriptures precisely because it is NOT a Biblical teaching. Because there is a verse that teaches what day Adam was created, only one verse is needed.

Because no verse teaches what day Eve was created on, they rely on artificial synthesis, group unrelated verses, read into it what they want, change the meaning of words, do math or substitution. Whala! You can 'support' ANY doctrine this way.

I keep going back to the motive. What is the motive to claim the Bible "supports" what it does not explicitly teach? They make it seem the only thing we have to go on are these vague glimpses, which is totally not true. Scripture explicitly teaches teaches there is one God, whose name is YHWH, who we relate to as Father. Jesus affirms this is the only true God.

1. That's good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for them?
2. Why do Jesus followers teach what Jesus did not?
3. No Scripture says believing the trinity is a salvation issue. So, why do they have this burning passion for what is NOT a salvation issue?
4. Why do they make this wholly contradictory idea - contrary to the Bible, contrary to logic, contrary to definition, contrary to language usage - seem like it's the central message of the Bible that one's salvation depends on when it's not?

Rev 1:1, the resurrected Jesus sitting on God's throne in heaven, given all authority in heaven and Earth is STILL not God as God - in his unitarian nature - gave Jesus the revelation. Not "the Father." God - in his unitarian nature gave this to Jesus.

 

[HealthyShape]

Orthodox Christians attacked from both sides... Some heretic claim there are three Gods, other heretics claim there is only one person.

It is like extreme left and extreme right joining their forces in attacking moderate democrats.

I am still not sure why moderators tolerate this, when their own rules forbid this. Every day the same thing over and over again. This is Christians Only section of the board.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

SALVATION BY GOD'S GRACE

Actually salvation is by grace THRU FAITH

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No faith = no grace = no salvation

Many today don't actually walk in faith and are falsely taught they are still saved.

You're starting to understand !

I been understanding the gospel when you were still in diapers!

Now that you're beginning to understand what Christians believe

I was understanding the gospel back when you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye!

All red apples are apples.

Those that are not red are not apples.

IF I were a betting man, I'd bet that person you responded to follows the false doctrines of the reformers or the catholics.

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Pro 30:6)

I added nothing to God's Word.

It's not my fault some people are deceived in to not believing what the Lord clearly states in His Word.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

These people are on the wide path that leads to hell and won't be spending eternity with the Lord unless they REPENT and accept what God says in His Word and ditch the religious garbage these churches and popular preachers are deceiving people with (doctrines of demons)

Jesus warned in Matt 24 that many would come in His Name claiming to be speaking in His behalf and they would deceive many... and we are seeing that happen right now in real time as the vast majority of churches and preachers are teaching false doctrine

Where does he say this?

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

What part of 1 John 5:7 were you having trouble understanding???

No, it isn’t. The doctrine of the Trinity is defined using words that are different—person being distinct from God and being—to avoid such confusion. Words used of God or Jesus are sometimes used in a way that does not or cannot apply to humans.

That is, it doesn’t necessarily follow that because God is one being that he is also one person.

And yet people go around saying there are 3 Gods

The Comma Johanneum Addition scam. Evidence of how frustrated the 3 in 1 Trinity advocates were,,,,,that they tried to re-write the Bible.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

1 John 5:7 was not added to the Bible by the catholics.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

Was Huff is a textual scholar.

Is this why you bow down in worship to him because he uses great swelling works that excite you so much that you duck bumps?

Those that accept the the Holy Spirit as their Teacher don't bow down to people that have framed degrees on their wall that demand everyone address them as "doctor", "professor", or "pastor"

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

From there it is matter of which set of beliefs are correct. As we see on this forum interpretations and asserted interpretations can vary and then you have doctrines that are not necessarily interpretations but are believed over and above scriptures. People as a whole did not have Bibles in their hands until the 16th/17th century

Ummmm, maybe it’s because they were HANDWRITTEN and weren’t available to the masses until the advent of the printing press in the 15th century.

Good grief . . .

and were told by the Catholic Church what to believe and the power of doctrines were elevated over the scriptures.

The Catholic Church does NOT elevate doctrines “over” Scripture.
Where do you get this nonsense??

It is not too funny that at one time you could be killed for owning a Bible.

Do you know WHY people were discouraged from owning Bibles prior to the invention of the printing press?
Time for a History Lesson . . .

First of all – prior to the 19th century, the world’s illiteracy rate was as low as to 85%. MOST people couldn’t even read the Bible, let alone own one. Prior to the printing press, Bibles were extremely expensive and hard to come by. Churches would chain their copies to the pulpit. This was NOT done to keep the Word of God from the masses – but to protect it from theft.

During this time, some wealthy, educated heretics took to making their own translations of the Bible. The result was inaccuracy and perverted doctrine. Since the Church was the ONLY place one could find an officially-translated Bible, they were kept from the general public. This is NO way means that the public was deprived of the Scriptures – just from owning a copy. In a 3-year Liturgical period, virtually the Entire Bible is read aloud at Mass.

To protect the Scriptures, the Church forbade the personal possession a Bible. After the printing press in the 15th century, this was no longer feasible. The result was the perpetual-splintering of the Church, which continues to this day . . .

So, contrary to YOUR claim that Catholics don’t know their Bible - it‘s BECAUSE of the Catholic Church that YOU even HAVE a Bible. It was the Catholic Church that protected and transcribed the Scriptures down through the centuries. It was the Catholic Church that declared the NT Canon in the 4th century, deciding which Books belonged ion it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Grailhunter]

Orthodox Christians attacked from both sides... Some heretic claim there are three Gods, other heretics claim there is only one person.

It is like extreme left and extreme right joining their forces in attacking moderate democrats.

I am still not sure why moderators tolerate this, when their own rules forbid this. Every day the same thing over and over again. This is Christians Only section of the board.

Sound like you don't know what it is to be Christian. Hey this place is for Christians only so you are not allowed to be here.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

1 John 5:7 was not added to the Bible by the catholics.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

Yeap and they all refer to more than on individual.
And as far as the scam regarding 1st John 5:7 LOL It is a matter of fact and history.

 

[Justified]

Yes, it advances a 3-person person idea found nowhere in Scripture. It is found in Greek mythology.

Except that you say one is not three, which suggests you don’t actually understand the doctrine. One can be three if they are referring to different things or categories.

One God cannot be three Gods, nor can one person be three persons. But it doesn’t logically follow that one God cannot be three persons.

It also doesn’t logically follow that if an idea is found in Greek mythology or Greek philosophy that it cannot also be in Scripture.

Untrue. You have no rejection criteria. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. That's good enough for me.

What does this mean about other gods, including the trinity God?

Jesus said a lot of things—as did the apostles—that you and others are completely ignoring, which means even the above is taken out of context and not understood correctly.

You are confusing:

1. a Bible teaching (exegesis), such as the Father is the only true God,
2. with reading into verses (eisegesis) what you want regarding your other claims.

So you say, while you have ignored much and have offered little of substance.

 

[marks]

Orthodox Christians attacked from both sides... Some heretic claim there are three Gods, other heretics claim there is only one person.

It is like extreme left and extreme right joining their forces in attacking moderate democrats.

I am still not sure why moderators tolerate this, when their own rules forbid this. Every day the same thing over and over again. This is Christians Only section of the board.

Controversy brings many page views, and therefore more revenue to the site via ads.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ummmm, maybe it’s because they were HANDWRITTEN and weren’t available to the masses until the advent of the printing press in the 15th century.

Good grief . . .

The church persecuted and killed those that hand wrote them.....Ever hear of Wycliffe and Huss and William Tyndale.
Check the history of it before you put your foot in your mouth again.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Catholic Church does NOT elevate doctrines “over” Scripture.
Where do you get this nonsense??

That is easy.....The 3 Gods in 1 doctrine is not biblical. Nor is the doctrine of Original Sin. Nor the concept that celibacy has anything to do with holiness or devotion to God.

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ummmm, maybe it’s because they were HANDWRITTEN and weren’t available to the masses until the advent of the printing press in the 15th century.

Good grief . . .

The Catholic Church does NOT elevate doctrines “over” Scripture.
Where do you get this nonsense??

Do you know WHY people were discouraged from owning Bibles prior to the invention of the printing press?
Time for a History Lesson . . .

First of all – prior to the 19th century, the world’s illiteracy rate was as low as to 85%. MOST people couldn’t even read the Bible, let alone own one. Prior to the printing press, Bibles were extremely expensive and hard to come by. Churches would chain their copies to the pulpit. This was NOT done to keep the Word of God from the masses – but to protect it from theft.

During this time, some wealthy, educated heretics took to making their own translations of the Bible. The result was inaccuracy and perverted doctrine. Since the Church was the ONLY place one could find an officially-translated Bible, they were kept from the general public. This is NO way means that the public was deprived of the Scriptures – just from owning a copy. In a 3-year Liturgical period, virtually the Entire Bible is read aloud at Mass.

To protect the Scriptures, the Church forbade the personal possession a Bible. After the printing press in the 15th century, this was no longer feasible. The result was the perpetual-splintering of the Church, which continues to this day . . .

So, contrary to YOUR claim that Catholics don’t know their Bible - it‘s BECAUSE of the Catholic Church that YOU even HAVE a Bible. It was the Catholic Church that protected and transcribed the Scriptures down through the centuries. It was the Catholic Church that declared the NT Canon in the 4th century, deciding which Books belonged ion it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Foolish notions....First of all as a whole Catholics do not study the Bible....you are a good example....They are told what to believe.....Because......Catholic doctrines are not biblical.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yeap and they all refer to more than on individual.

OK, so you do believe there are 3 Gods.

That's heresy, but you do you

And as far as the scam regarding 1st John 5:7 LOL It is a matter of fact and history.

1 John 5:7 simply says God is ONE being.

The Father, the Word, and the Spirit are ONE

That's the Truth that the Lord says of Himself.

In fact.... you and I are three that is one (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body) - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

Do you go around telling people "Hi, my name is Grailhunter and I'm 3 different persons!"
That's a good way to be taken in to custody and sent to the nut hut!

It's too bad so many in these last days refuse to accept what God says in His Word.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK, so you do believe there are 3 Gods.

That's heresy, but you do you

Can you count? LOL
Yahweh + Yeshua + Holy Spirit = 3
How do you come up with 1
The 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity is a Catholic Doctrine.....it is false.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK, so you do believe there are 3 Gods.

That's heresy, but you do you





1 John 5:7 simply says God is ONE being.

The Father, the Word, and the Spirit are ONE

That's the Truth that the Lord says of Himself.

In fact.... you and I are three that is one (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body) - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

Do you go around telling people "Hi, my name is Grailhunter and I'm 3 different persons!"
That's a good way to be taken in to custody and sent to the nut hut! View attachment 78899

It's too bad so many in these last days refuse to accept what God says in His Word.

No I am 1 person.....but Bill and Joe and Larry are 3 persons......Did you take math in school?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yahweh + Yeshua + Holy Spirit = 3

Can you read????

God said in 1 John 5:7 that these 3 are ONE

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Maybe take a class on reading comprehension at the local elementary school so you can get caught up.

The 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity is a Catholic Doctrine.....it is false.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

God said in 1 John 5:7 that these 3 are ONE

No I am 1 person.....but Bill and Joe and Larry are 3 persons......Did you take math in school?

I see so you claim to be multiple personalities named "Bill and Joe and Larry"