Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Grailhunter]

Do you ever talk to that priest about all the terrible history of the CC?
Do you ever discuss with him about how the CC is not the original church?

You have hatred for the CC.
Accept it.

I have talked to a lot of Catholics about history and theology.....always fun.
I love you and Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The church persecuted and killed those that hand wrote them.....Ever hear of Wycliffe and Huss and William Tyndale.
Check the history of it before you put your foot in your mouth again.

The problem with these guys is that they let their pride get the better of them. None of them was scholarly enough to translate the Bible into ANY language. The result was bad translations that were full of errors, leading MANY peopoe astray.

Wycliffe’s heresies included the denial of the Eucharist, and intercessory prayer. His heresies eventually infected the teachings of John Hus, who further expanded his heresies to rejecting doctrines on papal authority and sacred Tradition while advancing unbiblical heresies like Sola Scriptura. Tyndale was no better at translating, as his version contained some 2000 errors. It also contained a prologue that completely trashed the Church.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ignatius.
107AD
Catholic Church

He did not use it as a title. It was a description.

 

[Grailhunter]

The whole Bible? How about you go back to one of the several posts I made with Scripture in them and then reply.

Read Read Read......the whole scripture(s) that you want to discuss.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes sir.
There certainly was a lineage.

One of the many big lies of history according to the Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is easy.....The 3 Gods in 1 doctrine is not biblical. Nor is the doctrine of Original Sin. Nor the concept that celibacy has anything to do with holiness or devotion to God.

If you’re gonna be an anti-Catholic – at LEAST be an honest one . . .

And it IS a Biblical doctrine . . .
The Father is God
Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13

The Son is God
Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 20:28, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.”

Apparently, you’re NOT very schooled in Church History.
Let me educate you . . .

Doctrines declared by Church Councils weren’t “invented” at the Councils.
Councils were called when a doctrine was challenged or called into question by heretics. They put to rest the heresies that were being spread.

The Council of Nicaea, for example, was convened to answer the Arian Heresy. Arius was a clergyman who started teaching that Jesus was created by God – and NOT God Himself, denying the teaching of the Trinity

Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

WEAK argument.

You know what else is NOT in the Bible?
The word, “Bible” . . .
Sola Scriptura . . .
Sola Fide . . . . . .
Discipleship . . .
Rapture . . .

How many of those do you believe in?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Foolish notions....First of all as a whole Catholics do not study the Bible....you are a good example....They are told what to believe.....Because......Catholic doctrines are not biblical.

And I have handily dispelled that ignoorant myth . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Here we go again.

Peter.

Peter was the Bishop of Rome (come to be knowns as THE Pope in about the 7th century, would have to check.
There's a reason why I capitalized THE for THE Pope.
A little church history will tell you why.

I'd say he had a BIG connection due to what other Bishops did...
namely those of JERUSALEM, ANTIOCH, ALEXANDRIA and CONSTANTINOPLE.

I'm just tired of throwing out pearls today since there' no one there to catch them with joy.

Yes.
But Jesus gave the keys to Peter.
Interesting stuff.


James became the bishop of JERUSALEM.


Here we go again.
What was THE CHURCH CALLED
BEFORE
it was called CATHOLIC?


Ignatius.
107AD
Catholic Church

Yes sir.
There certainly was a lineage.

Jesus blessed the Apostles in John 20:23

THEN THEY blessed others to carry forward THE FAITH.
Then THEY blessed others.
THEN THEY blessed OTHERS.
and so forth until this very day.

This is called Apostolic succession and anyone who does not believe in it does
not know Chritian history.


Well, you ARE RIGHT about this.

Perhpas you could explain the Edict of Milan so we can understand why it was such an important edict?
Thanks.

After Constitine saw the symbol of Christ in the sky he had the symbol painted on the shields of his army. He fought a vastly larger army but the symbol on the shields struck fear in the hearts of the other army. (I cannot explain why) Either way he won the Battle of the Milvian Bridge on 28 October AD 312. At which point Christ became an important part of his pantheon of Gods he believed in.

Then around February 3rd 313 AD he issued the Edict of Milan. Which stopped the persecution of Christians and directed toleration.

In the year before the First Council of Constantinople in 381, Nicene Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire when Theodosius I, emperor of the East, and Gratian, emperor of the West, and Gratian's junior co-ruler Valentinian II issued the Edict of Thessalonica in 380, which recognized the Catholic orthodoxy, as defined by the Council of Nicaea, as the Roman Empire's state religion

 

[Grailhunter]

If you’re gonna be an anti-Catholic – at LEAST be an honest one . . .

And it IS a Biblical doctrine . . .
The Father is God
Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13

The Son is God
Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 20:28, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4

Apparently, you’re NOT very schooled in Church History.
Let me educate you . . .

Doctrines declared by Church Councils weren’t “invented” at the Councils.
Councils were called when a doctrine was challenged or called into question by heretics. They put to rest the heresies that were being spread.

The Council of Nicaea, for example, was convened to answer the Arian Heresy. Arius was a clergyman who started teaching that Jesus was created by God – and NOT God Himself, denying the teaching of the Trinity

WEAK argument.

You know what else is NOT in the Bible?
The word, “Bible” . . .
Sola Scriptura . . .
Sola Fide . . . . . .
Discipleship . . .
Rapture . . .

How many of those do you believe in?

You need to put a little style in being wrong.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

no use going through this again. Of course God is everywhere.
But He did come down to earth in the PERSON of the Son.

You are correct in a sense, but it is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father, "I will be", "He will be" who came down in and through the human Jesus the Son of God by birth, character and then by resurrection. The vision of Psalm 110:1 does not show three persons sitting upon God the Father's Throne, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, or two with God the Holy Spirit hovering. Psalm 110:1 shows that the human Jesus is invited to sit at the right hand of God in God the Father's Throne Rvelation 3:20-21.

Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Revelation 3:20-22 (KJV) 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grailhunter]

James became the bishop of JERUSALEM.

No, he was the leader of the 12. He moderated the Chistian meeting in Jerusalem in chapter 15 of Acts. He made the declaration and wrote the letter regarding the Gentile-Christians. Paul and Peter and Barnabus made their case to him for him to make a judgement.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

God is not three parts that make a whole, as that would mean each is needed to make God—take one away and he ceases to be God or ceases to be. Each person is truly and fully God.

I see so you believe 1 John 5:7 is a lie and all the scriptures about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are lies too?

And it's moot point to say "take one away and he ceases to be God" since that is not possible.

There are in fact three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Those saying otherwise are claiming God's Word contains lies and thus are calling God a liar whether they realize it or nor.

This is the false claim the devil has deceived many into believing that Jesus FAILED to control what went in to His Canon and is claiming some things in God's Word are lies.

I reject that verse as it is written in the KJV. It states truth, sure, but it is far too developed to have likely been original.

This is the false claim the devil has deceived many into believing that Jesus FAILED to control what went in to His Canon and is claiming some things in God's Word are lies.

And so the deceived apparently will continue being deceived and will continue deceiving others.

They are the blind leading the blind and they all in the ditch.

LOL
1st John 5:7-----For there are three that testify:
Yeap they all testify.
You are a slow learner.....another one falls for the Johannine comma addition scam.

LOL, on one had you say 1 John 5:7 is true then on the other you claim it's false.

Some folks will remain in their state of confusion and befuddlement as they continually dirty their diapers.

No, can you read, I said persons.

I see so you claim 3 persons live in you named "Bill and Joe and Larry"

That's known as multiple personality disorder and those suffering from such are nuts and should be in the nut hut with all the other nut jobs who believe there are numerous persons living inside of them

the Catholic religion IS the original religion.

the Catholic religion the original deception, the first group of people claiming to be Christians who departed from the Doctrine of Christ and started praying to mary and other such sinful foolishness.

Let's keep it real up in here homie.

Grace is a deep topic...

Yes those who are corrupt who are walking after the flesh cannot understand God's Grace - religious minded people

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Let's see YOUR explanation of the Trinity.

I go by what God said about this in His Word and I've already posted that several times.

You're just jealous because Wes is young and healthy and super intelligent and has muscles and is just
sooooo cute!!!

You should repent of lusting after this guy.

While Jesus was on earth...the Father was in Heaven.

That's not what God says in His Word.
This is quite the comedy show watching carnal minded people try to figure God out with the little carnal minded peanut brains

John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God is omnipresent so He can be in Christ while still being in Heaven at the same time.

"HOW can this be" asks the one not paying attention to what God says in His Word.

Matthew 19:26
with God all things are possible

Try as you may, you cannot put God in a box.

 

[Grailhunter]

I see so you believe 1 John 5:7 is a lie and all the scriptures about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are lies too?

I did not say that.....
The actual 1st John 5:7 is correct.

 

[NayborBear]

I find it problematic that a person can call themselves a Christian and yet believe that Jesus is not God,,,
which, basically, would be idolatry...

*Disclaimer! I'm not reading through 62 pages of this thread (just too long) in replying........(yet, it'll be yet another attempt at chewing up meat that younger believers have, so as not to become so choked on it, that in their desperation of "breathing?" They relent as THIS takes place:
Ezekiel 13:22
Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
(So?)
The "Problem and Idolatry" issue, is not from thinking or believing that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God!
As the Father thought it not robbery that Jesus Christ of Nazareth sit on His right side ON His throne in Heaven!
The "PROBLEM" stems from when the "OVER ROMANTICISM" in allowing the Agapeo Love part of our human nature in the "dissuading" by means of a combination of "seducing, vexating, and familiar" spirits that "pollute and corrupt" the believer's Spiritual nature!

And THIS is where (and how) the author of confusion causes Idolatry!
By the conjoining with NO differences between Father and Son!

 

[Grailhunter]

There are in fact three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Those saying otherwise are claiming God's Word contains lies and thus are calling God a liar whether they realize it or nor.

This is the false claim the devil has deceived many into believing that Jesus FAILED to control what went in to His Canon and is claiming some things in God's Word are lies.

The actual 1st John 5:7 & 8
For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
This is correct.
The Johanneum Comma Addition is a scam

 

[Grailhunter]

I see so you believe 1 John 5:7 is a lie and all the scriptures about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are lies too?

And it's moot point to say "take one away and he ceases to be God" since that is not possible.

There are in fact three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Those saying otherwise are claiming God's Word contains lies and thus are calling God a liar whether they realize it or nor.

This is the false claim the devil has deceived many into believing that Jesus FAILED to control what went in to His Canon and is claiming some things in God's Word are lies.





This is the false claim the devil has deceived many into believing that Jesus FAILED to control what went in to His Canon and is claiming some things in God's Word are lies.

And so the deceived apparently will continue being deceived and will continue deceiving others.

They are the blind leading the blind and they all in the ditch.





LOL, on one had you say 1 John 5:7 is true then on the other you claim it's false.

Some folks will remain in their state of confusion and befuddlement as they continually dirty their diapers.





I see so you claim 3 persons live in you named "Bill and Joe and Larry" View attachment 79004

That's known as multiple personality disorder and those suffering from such are nuts and should be in the nut hut with all the other nut jobs who believe there are numerous persons living inside of them





the Catholic religion the original deception, the first group of people claiming to be Christians who departed from the Doctrine of Christ and started praying to mary and other such sinful foolishness.

Let's keep it real up in here homie. View attachment 79005





Yes those who are corrupt who are walking after the flesh cannot understand God's Grace - religious minded people

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.





I go by what God said about this in His Word and I've already posted that several times.





You should repent of lusting after this guy.





That's not what God says in His Word.
This is quite the comedy show watching carnal minded people try to figure God out with the little carnal minded peanut brains View attachment 79006

John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God is omnipresent so He can be in Christ while still being in Heaven at the same time.

"HOW can this be" asks the one not paying attention to what God says in His Word.

Matthew 19:26
with God all things are possible

Try as you may, you cannot put God in a box.

Still waiting for the scripture that says the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity is true.....of course the word Trinity is not in the scriptures.

 

[Hiddenthings]

who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be seized. (Philippians2:6)


Pamela Eisenbaum, a Jewish theologian, characterizes the original monotheism of Judaism as "aniconic". Any suggestion that God has a form is a violation of the commandment against making graven images of God.

Nicely put! The “form” Paul refers to speaks to character, and you and I both understand what was crucified on the tree. Isaiah is the key which unlocks these verses and those trying to use credal formula will always stumble and hurt themselves.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I repeat:
@Brakelite is absolutely correct in his interpretation of Philippians 2:6 and is accepted by Christian theologians.

Please see my post no. 1162.

Those that do not believe the most basic belief of Christianity, do not properly understand many verses.
It is happening here.

The bible does not contradict itself.

If you and Wrangler were correct,,,there would be a contradiction in the NT since the Apostles taught that Jesus is God.

Brakelite has yet to see the fullness of the truth Paul bases his exhortation on, and you’re reaching for thin air. Go to Isaiah! If you don't go you will never know.

 

[JLB]

Yahweh so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son.....plain a simple.
Peter said, You are the Son of the living God.
Yeshua said that Yahweh is His God.
Yeshua returned to His Father and sits to the right of Him on a throne

The Catholics debated the nature of Yahweh and Yeshua but never tackled what the Holy Spirit was about.
But it all was a fool's folly because we cannot comprehend their nature. And we can speculate on their interconnections, but only at the level of speculation....could it even be explained in human terms.

1st Timothy 3:16 NASB
16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:

He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.

A scripture of great theological speculation but no agreement on what it means or if it came from an unknown writing.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Who was manifested in the flesh, the Father or the Son?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
This is correct.

And these 3 are one.

There are not 3 different Gods - there is only ONE God.

I did not say that.....

Actually you are.

Those departing from what the Lord says in His Word are confused, so we'll have to cut you a little slack seeing you are so confused about this issue.

Still waiting for the scripture that says the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity is true.....of course the word Trinity is not in the scriptures.

Those who falsely believe there are 3 different God aren't abler to understand since they don't accept what the Lord says about Himself in His Word.

It's a moot point where you are concerned since you apparently like to add to and take away from God's Word. Those doing such as in big trouble and don't know it yet.

Deuteronomy 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it

Deuteronomy 12:32
Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God proves true; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and you be found a liar.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Revelation 22:18
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book