Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[GodsGrace]

I am not expecting them to determine that, but they created this policy:

Please note that taking a position contrary to the doctrines outlined in the statement of faith is not allowed for our Christian members. The Trinity, while open to discussion, is not open to dispute, except by other faith members.

Policy Change - Topics On The Trinity Can Now Be Discussed at CyB Updated - 20/12/2024

Christianity Board has alway prided itself in being a place of scholarly discussion, friendship and an environment where members can grow, learn and share their experiences in Christ. Our team at Cyb have worked hard over the years to ensure that this ethos is maintained and upheld however, we...

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It's complicated.

If somebody want to dispute Trinity, they must not identify as Christians, according to this policy.

You don't need to convince ME!

I do not think this is a correct argument. We are talking about a basic Christian doctrine on a Christian forum.

I don't even call it a doctrine...it's a tenet.
I'm trying to show that there's a difference.
Between denominations there could be different doctrine/teachings.
But the tenets must be believed in order for that denomination to be defined as Christian.

With total freedom comes also total chaos - Jehovah Witnesses or polytheists identifying themselves as Christians etc. Trinity is allowed to be disputed outside of Christians Only section.

Agreed.
I know you haven't read every post, but I've said several times that CHRISTIANS should NOT BE arguing about the Divinity of Jesus.

This is the most basic Christian tenet.
If one does not believe Jesus is God, what does he think makes him a Christian?

 

[GodsGrace]

The evidence that this is a forgery is seen in the fact that the Apostles never did this but only baptized people in the name of Jesus.

Wow.
Just wow.


JESUS - do you know who Jesus is??

JESUS said
"BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT".

Notice:
IN THE NAME
singular

And then Jesus went on to name THREE PERSONS.
Interesting, isn't it?
Sounds like the Trinity.

And JESUS said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Don't you even believe what JESUS states?

And, for your information since you seem not to be familiar with the early church and how it worshipped,

The early church baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

But what did they know?
They weren't inspired.
They were just the first Christians taught BY THE APOSTLES.

The very Apostles that YOU seem to think did not baptize.
The NT teaches that the Apostles baptized.

And they bapized as Jesus instructed them to do sicne they did EVERYTHING as Jesus instructed them to do.
You need to find out what IN THE NAME OF JESUS MEANS. Because you do not seem to know.


John 4:1-2
4 So then, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that [a]He was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing; rather, His disciples were),


Matthew 28:19
19 [a]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Also, this verse doesn't mention God or him supposedly being a 3-person person, let along the other 2 are God.

Are you still speaking about Matthew 28:19?

Jesus gave to EACH PERSON the same authority, because they are the same Yaweh.

IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER
THE SON
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

One Nature
Three Persons - all with the same authority because all have the same nature.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why is it twisted?
There are a few different ways of saying something.

Let's check out Hebrews:


Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the [c]world.
3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,


1.
As I was attempting to explain to @Wrangler ,
Jesus is THE SON thorugh Whom God has spoken to us.

You and Wrangler and I might be sons of God...
but God has not spoken to the world through us.
We are NOT oracles of God.

Jesus is THE WORD,,, THE ORACLE (not an oracle) OF GOD.

2.
Who upholds everything but God Himself?
Jesus represents God's nature.
Only God can represent God's nature.
Not a man that is created by that God.

One of the more interesting tidbits of history according to Catholics is their focus on Peter. Peter had no direct connection to the Catholic Church. LOL For those that only have an elementary understanding of the scriptures, they may think that Peter was the leader of the 12 Apostles. But actually Peter did not hold that position long. And nobody know why but Yeshua's brother James became the leader of the 12 Apostles and Peter teamed up with Paul and ministered under him in the gentile ministry. Then again Peter had a special connection with the church in Rome. But the church in Rome was not Catholic until the 4th century and there was no lineage from Peter to the Catholic Church. In the 4th century the Christian church in Rome was in hiding until Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in February of 313 AD.

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to take care there Brakelight!

Philippians 2:5–11 Christ:

The Ultimate Example of Humility

These verses form the heart of the Epistle. Christ stands as the supreme example of humility.

Verse 5 “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.”

Though he was the greatest of all men, he washed his disciples’ feet (John 13:1–17). Believers are called to clothe themselves with humility, as Christ did (Matt 11:29; 1 Pet 5:5–11). See also Isaiah 57:15; 66:2; Matthew 5:3–5; Mark 10:15; Colossians 3:12; 1 Peter 3:4.

Verse 6 — “Being in the form of God.”

This does not mean being the same person as God. The same concept of “form” appears in 2 Timothy 3:5 (“form of godliness”) and Galatians 4:19 (“Christ formed in you”). The related verb is used in Romans 12:2 (“transformed”) and 2 Corinthians 3:18 (“changed”).

The phrase “thought it not robbery” is better rendered (RV): “did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself.” Rather than seizing immediate glory, he willingly chose a path of humility and suffering.

Verse 7 — “Made himself of no reputation.”

Literally, “he emptied himself” (RV, RSV). This reflects Jesus’ teaching: “Blessed are the poor in spirit” (Matt 5:3; cf. Psa 34:18; 51:17; Isa 57:15; 66:1–2).

Taking “the form of a servant,” he ministered to the broken and submitted entirely to his Father’s will. This section clearly echoes Isaiah’s Servant prophecies (Isa 42:1–4; 49:4–9; 50:5–6; 52:13–53:12), portraying the Son’s willing obedience, displayed under the most intense pressure and trial.

Please take the time to read each of those Isaiah passages, I promise, you won’t go wrong!

@Wrangler If you approach this passage with the wrong starting point, it’s easy to end up in confusion. This section is about the fully developed divine mindset of Christ, rejecting the privileges he could have claimed as God’s Son, and instead choosing the path of servanthood, suffering, and death. I know you know this.

I repeat:
@Brakelite is absolutely correct in his interpretation of Philippians 2:6 and is accepted by Christian theologians.

Please see my post no. 1162.

Those that do not believe the most basic belief of Christianity, do not properly understand many verses.
It is happening here.

The bible does not contradict itself.

If you and Wrangler were correct,,,there would be a contradiction in the NT since the Apostles taught that Jesus is God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Claiming something and showing that claim to be true are not equal.


No reply is necessary when you failed to go beyond assertion. I easily showed the flaw of your logic by using red apples as a comparison. This is fun!

You used an incorrect analogy.
You did not set the proper definiton.

Analogies do NOT function well when speaking about GOD.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your approach (starting with a belief and then hunting for a translation that supports it) is exactly what many people do, and it can quietly turn Bible study into confirmation bias. Serious study usually works best the other way around.

I just wrote to you about this.

1. One verse does not doctrine make.

2. Every single verse has to be understood with every other verse.


The fact that it is translated differently should make you stop to think what a person writing 2,000 years ago might have meant by what they said.

Some versions are word for word.
Nice, but do we really understand each word?
Did you know that elders means bishops?

Some versions translate by IDEA.
I'm beginning to believe that this might be better in this day and age when everyone thinks they know Koine Greek.

 

[GodsGrace]

who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be seized. (Philippians2:6)


Pamela Eisenbaum, a Jewish theologian, characterizes the original monotheism of Judaism as "aniconic". Any suggestion that God has a form is a violation of the commandment against making graven images of God.

She was speaking about God Father.

The Son took on flesh...this is taking on the form of God.

It was God that made Jesus using Mary and the Holy Spirit.

So are we now saying that Jesus is an idol?
Jesus is now a graven image of God?

There's enough confusion here Lambano...

 

[GodsGrace]

And the scripture is talking about two separate persons.....Gods....

UFFA!

 

[amigo de christo]

I have no idea what your point is.

Well i have an idea that would have soon cleared this all up .
WHY dont you b egin and afresh and anew today
in the KJV bible . enjoy those g ospels and acts and all of it .
The more you read the more you g onna see something .
WOW it sure sounds way different than todays men and their love does .
They corrected sin and error in the church .
TODAYS lovey do DOES NOT and that led to even acceptance of it in time .
THEY preached the dire necessity to have to beleive ON JESUS
and warned of the dire consequences that would fall upon all who did not .
Todays lovey does not . as it alloweth unbeleif to remain upon THE FALSE relgoions too
and hollers lets just find us some common ground .
How about we just have us a reading fest in that there bible . Keep on feasting daily
Hungering for the lovely truth that is written within it .
OH in time you darn sure would have seen it . WE GOTS A MASSIVE problem
EVEN within the very house that has been named CHRISTENDOM . we have had a SELL OUT .

 

[amigo de christo]

UFFA!

Why , though i clearly have no idea what UFFA means
i do seem to know it means you are not IN AGREEMENT with what was typed by said person .

 

[GodsGrace]

Most definitely the Catholic Church is not the original Church. You have been taught what to believe and that includes history.

Gee thanks GH.
Just remember that YOU are the one that went to a theology university..
NOT ME.

And yeah.
I'm a rather dumb girl...
I just let myself be brainwashed about everything.

But it sure doesn't seem to be working with what YOU believe and post !

The early church did not identify by denominations.....The new religion was first called the Way and then Christian.

Right.
And in 107AD Ignatius called it the Catholic church.

You like names.
Why don't you like the name in THIS case?

That first church was called CATHOLIC by somebody important in the church at that time.
Somebody that might have written that on his way to Rome to be eaten by lions.
I'd have to look it up to be certain, but it's not important WHEN he wrote it,,,
just that he DID write it.

Bob said he owned a jacuzzi, but when Jill visited she found out it was a Sears hot tub. Some people refer to all hot tubs as Jacuzzi. ECF's considered Christianity as the universal Church and then after the 4th century the organization formed by the Ecumenical Councils adopted the name Catholic, which means universal.

Yes sir.
Catholic means universal.
I DID state that.

However it is the NAME given to the early church.

Whatever you want to call it:
HOT TUB
JACUZZI

it means the same OBJECT.

There was an early church.
It happened that it was referred to as Catholic.

THAT is the name by which it became knowns.
THE WAY
CHRISTIAN
CATHOLIC

All by 107AD.

And there were MANY councils...why are you obsessed with the Council of Nicea??
Were bishops not present? Was the church not making decisions there?

The term Bishop or Pope did not exist in the 4th century.....Not obsessed with the Council of Nicaea, I know there were many councils.

The term BISHOP existed when Paul was writing to Timothy.
The Greek word is translated as BISHOP or ELDER.
I've already gone through this and will not repeat.

Most studied under men like the Apostles and Paul and the leader of the 7 churches. And I imagine you have been taught a lot of lies. I went to Catholics schools and mass 6 times a week and my first college was Catholic....CBC Christian Brothers College. From there my degrees were theological and they were non- denomination as it should be or theologians would turn out like you with a false history.

Thanks again GH.

But let me assure you of this:
The cc taught me NOTHING.

This is a big problem with the CC.
It teaches the laity NOTHING.
Which is why many become JWs.

And, wow, yeah, you sure do hate the CC.

Then courses and seminars like Hebrew University in Jerusalem....(Online course) When I was in the Navy I would take vacations and attend courses and seminars at historic universities in Europe like Oxford and Cambridge and Notre Dame in Paris. My sub was based out of Holy Lock Scotland and was able to go to Roselynn Chapel and few other Scottish churches.

See. YOU were brainwashed !!
I studied in Astoria New York.
All by myself.
By going to different denominations and reading my bible and making sure
every verse thought agreed with every other verse thought/idea.

Yes. The bible MUST BE RECONCILED.
If the bible says there IS ONLY ONE GOD.

And then we read something that sounds a little different...
it MUST be RECONCILED using scripture.

Roman Catholic Church is not an official designation it is an historical/theological descriptor. The religion was Christian....referred to as called Catholic....the muscle was Roman. Separation of church and state was not the rule there. Emperor Constantine was the head of the Catholic Church. The Church would determine heresies and the Roman Emperor would carry out persecutions and executions and even wars like the against the Cathers and Moslems.

Oh boy.
We do hate the CC don't we?

The Catholics have a frequent tendency to make up history. It is funny to listen to them.

Well sir...
you shouldn't be learning Christian history from Catholics.
There are other resources you know.

Although, yes,
The CC was the original church.
The CC did establish canon.
The CC did assemble the NT.
The CC did keep heresies out of the early church.

I have no hatred for the Catholics and I was raised Catholic and on occasion go to Catholic Mass particularly the Stations of the Cross at cathedrals and Church functions and dinners and Bazaars. Autumn Bazaar.... Benediction by Priest and a big dinner and yard sale of sorts and party games and gambling and outside a Budweiser truck with beer taps on the side and we would drink and smoke and fun around. I do not generally smoke but I would have cigar with them.....great time had by all.

Do you ever talk to that priest about all the terrible history of the CC?
Do you ever discuss with him about how the CC is not the original church?

You have hatred for the CC.
Accept it.

 

[amigo de christo]

UFFA!

more and more within this generation of even what is named christenedom
have suffered a serious and deadly disease by a harlot .
its known as
STIFOAL .
very very deadly it is . cause this disease is worse than any disease or pesitlence known to man .
THIS disease of spiritual fornication
can and will lead to THE V ERY DESTRUCTION OF THE SOUL .
STIFOAL is very serious and must not ever be embraced .
SOLD TRUTH IN FAVOR of A LIE . very very deadly . and by this lie and lies
they have remolded a christainty that is now void of the its first five letters . CHRIST . Very deadly indeed .

 

[GodsGrace]

Why , though i clearly have no idea what UFFA means
i do seem to know it means you are not IN AGREEMENT with what was typed by said person .

Not only NOT IN AGREEMENT.
Also tired of it.
Also frustrated.

See Amigo...it's like the members on these forums that try to understand Greek by using Strong's lexicon.
How many times have I stated that this cannot be done.

UFFA! Does not exist in the English language.
A person can only infer its meaning (as you've done).

Also, it has DIFFERENT a meaning depending on WHEN and HOW it is said.

But you get a star!

 

[GodsGrace]

more and more within this generation of even what is named christenedom
have suffered a serious and deadly disease by a harlot .
its known as
STIFOAL .
very very deadly it is . cause this disease is worse than any disease or pesitlence known to man .
THIS disease of spiritual fornication
can and will lead to THE V ERY DESTRUCTION OF THE SOUL .
STIFOAL is very serious and must not ever be embraced .
SOLD TRUTH IN FAVOR of A LIE . very very deadly . and by this lie and lies
they have remolded a christainty that is now void of the its first five letters . CHRIST . Very deadly indeed .

What is STIFOAL?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeshua was the Son of Yahweh and a God and a Savior. Great stuff.

Yeshua was also Yaweh !

 

[GodsGrace]

Whether you believe that 3 Gods make up the Trinity or the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity it is not a matter of salvation or if you are a Christian, but the 3 in 1 belief skews the meaning of a lot of scriptures in a relative manner because their minds have to juggle the meaning of a lot of scriptures and the truth escapes them.

For example for the 3 in 1 people…..What are their minds thinking or juggling when the scripture says….God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son….?

In their minds was Yeshua and Yahweh and the Holy Spirit walking with the Apostles?

What are their minds thinking or juggling when the scripture says…. That Yeshua said that Yahweh was His God?

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua prays to His God?

What are their minds thinking when…..Yeshua refers to Yahweh as His Father or Father in Heaven?

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua said, The Father is greater than I?

What do their minds think or juggling it meant when Yeshua said….I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua say He does not do His will but the will of the Father?

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua said…. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

What are their minds thinking when Yahweh said…. This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

What are their minds think when the scriptures said…. Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

What are their minds thinking it meant when John said…And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

What are their minds thinking it meant when Yeshua said….And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

What are their minds thinking it meant when Yeshua said….Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God?

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

What do their minds think it meant when Paul said….Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know—

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua said He could not grant John’s mother’s request for her sons to sit on either side of Yeshua in Heaven, because it was not His to give?

What are their minds thinking when Yeshua said He did not know when the end of time would occur but Yahweh did?

What are their minds thinking the meaning of the veil torn in two in the temple when Yeshua passed on the cross?

In their minds did the Romans nail Yeshua and Yahweh and the Holy Spirit to the cross?

Who do they think is speaking through people when they speak in tongues?

What do their minds think it meant when Yeshua said…. I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.

In each case their minds have to change the true meaning for an alternate meaning and so they cannot know the truth of the scriptures.

This might have to wait till after dinner.
It's interesting but just too long for right now.

 

[amigo de christo]

Gee thanks GH.
Just remember that YOU are the one that went to a theology university..
NOT ME.

And yeah.
I'm a rather dumb girl...
I just let myself be brainwashed about everything.

But it sure doesn't seem to be working with what YOU believe and post !


Right.
And in 107AD Ignatius called it the Catholic church.

You like names.
Why don't you like the name in THIS case?

That first church was called CATHOLIC by somebody important in the church at that time.
Somebody that might have written that on his way to Rome to be eaten by lions.
I'd have to look it up to be certain, but it's not important WHEN he wrote it,,,
just that he DID write it.


Yes sir.
Catholic means universal.
I DID state that.

However it is the NAME given to the early church.

Whatever you want to call it:
HOT TUB
JACUZZI

it means the same OBJECT.

There was an early church.
It happened that it was referred to as Catholic.

THAT is the name by which it became knowns.
THE WAY
CHRISTIAN
CATHOLIC

All by 107AD.

The term BISHOP existed when Paul was writing to Timothy.
The Greek word is translated as BISHOP or ELDER.
I've already gone through this and will not repeat.

Thanks again GH.

But let me assure you of this:
The cc taught me NOTHING.

This is a big problem with the CC.
It teaches the laity NOTHING.
Which is why many become JWs.

And, wow, yeah, you sure do hate the CC.


See. YOU were brainwashed !!
I studied in Astoria New York.
All by myself.
By going to different denominations and reading my bible and making sure
every verse thought agreed with every other verse thought/idea.

Yes. The bible MUST BE RECONCILED.
If the bible says there IS ONLY ONE GOD.

And then we read something that sounds a little different...
it MUST be RECONCILED using scripture.


Oh boy.
We do hate the CC don't we?

Well sir...
you shouldn't be learning Christian history from Catholics.
There are other resources you know.

Although, yes,
The CC was the original church.
The CC did establish canon.
The CC did assemble the NT.
The CC did keep heresies out of the early church.



Do you ever talk to that priest about all the terrible history of the CC?
Do you ever discuss with him about how the CC is not the original church?

You have hatred for the CC.
Accept it.

Be advised that a harlot must be warned against .
That too is why i warn against the RCC . which has infected now the orthodox and all realms . THIS is her
ecumenical b aby my friend . I suggest we stick to the term christain , not catholic .
Because many can get the wrong idea and go in search of being a catholic . Not good either .
We should stick to christain . not pentecostal , not catholic , or any other .
WHO do you THINK brought this we are all catholic unto us .
The main player who pushed in onto the protesetant realm ,
THOUGH it was being pushed long before this , was POPE francis .
THIS is not what it seems my friend . They simply desire us all to be as one tribe , but it aint under CHRIST
its under men and not GOD . Cause if anyone here BELEIVES this pope francis preached the real deal ,
OH i do invite us to look at his twenty sixteen prayer
and later at his interreglious dialgoue . That WAS NOT OF GOD at all . As UNBELIF was Poured upon all .

 

[amigo de christo]

What is STIFOAL?

Sold
Truth
In
Favor
Of
A
Lie . that be STIFOAL and it be deadly .

 

[GodsGrace]

One of the more interesting tidbits of history according to Catholics is their focus on Peter. Peter had no direct connection to the Catholic Church.

Here we go again.

Peter.

Peter was the Bishop of Rome (come to be knowns as THE Pope in about the 7th century, would have to check.
There's a reason why I capitalized THE for THE Pope.
A little church history will tell you why.

I'd say he had a BIG connection due to what other Bishops did...
namely those of JERUSALEM, ANTIOCH, ALEXANDRIA and CONSTANTINOPLE.

I'm just tired of throwing out pearls today since there' no one there to catch them with joy.

LOL For those that only have an elementary understanding of the scriptures, they may think that Peter was the leader of the 12 Apostles. But actually Peter did not hold that position long.

Yes.
But Jesus gave the keys to Peter.
Interesting stuff.

And nobody know why but Yeshua's brother James became the leader

James became the bishop of JERUSALEM.

of the 12 Apostles and Peter teamed up with Paul and ministered under him in the gentile ministry. Then again Peter had a special connection with the church in Rome. But the church in Rome was not Catholic until the 4th century

Here we go again.
What was THE CHURCH CALLED
BEFORE
it was called CATHOLIC?


Ignatius.
107AD
Catholic Church

and there was no lineage from Peter to the Catholic Church

Yes sir.
There certainly was a lineage.

Jesus blessed the Apostles in John 20:23

THEN THEY blessed others to carry forward THE FAITH.
Then THEY blessed others.
THEN THEY blessed OTHERS.
and so forth until this very day.

This is called Apostolic succession and anyone who does not believe in it does
not know Chritian history.

In the 4th century the Christian church in Rome was in hiding until Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in February of 313 AD.

Well, you ARE RIGHT about this.

Perhpas you could explain the Edict of Milan so we can understand why it was such an important edict?
Thanks.

 

[amigo de christo]

Here we go again.

Peter.

Peter was the Bishop of Rome (come to be knowns as THE Pope in about the 7th century, would have to check.
There's a reason why I capitalized THE for THE Pope.
A little church history will tell you why.

I'd say he had a BIG connection due to what other Bishops did...
namely those of JERUSALEM, ANTIOCH, ALEXANDRIA and CONSTANTINOPLE.

I'm just tired of throwing out pearls today since there' no one there to catch them with joy.

Yes.
But Jesus gave the keys to Peter.
Interesting stuff.


James became the bishop of JERUSALEM.


Here we go again.
What was THE CHURCH CALLED
BEFORE
it was called CATHOLIC?


Ignatius.
107AD
Catholic Church

Yes sir.
There certainly was a lineage.

Jesus blessed the Apostles in John 20:23

THEN THEY blessed others to carry forward THE FAITH.
Then THEY blessed others.
THEN THEY blessed OTHERS.
and so forth until this very day.

This is called Apostolic succession and anyone who does not believe in it does
not know Chritian history.


Well, you ARE RIGHT about this.

Perhpas you could explain the Edict of Milan so we can understand why it was such an important edict?
Thanks.

Now
let us compare them popes to THIS PETER .
Peter never decked himself up with great robes and big fancy hats
and had men calling him MOST HOLY anything
dont you see , they used partial truths to promote thier own system .
I do not know exactly when it f ell , i only know it did .
Peter stopped men f rom kneeling before him . yet for as long back
as i can read about in the history of the popes , WRITTEN BY A D EVOUT man OF THE RCC
They have long cliamed titles , long wore f ancy garbs
And long loved the praise and worship of men who kneel before them to kiss a ring .
A ring peter never wore .
I mean they cliam they honor that seat
BUT HOW COME not even PETER had a man one kneel before HIM and call HIM MOST reverand
or MOST HOLY FATHER .
WHY ,
BECAUSE JESUS warned peter and all
BEWARE OF MEN who wear long robes and love f lattering titles and to be seen and praised of men .
They lied to us all my friend . they lied to us all .
And now statues of mary , of etc
are brought in and kissed and incensed is b urned to it . ALL of which GOD does not support .
and far worse has come and will come through the unholy merger of her ecumenical cup .
WE just need to stick to the bible . And do not stray from it .