The "watch rapture view"

[rebuilder 454]

Correct.


You must be reading a bad translation. KJV says that the prince that shall come will confirm a 7 year covenant. That does not mean that he makes a 7 year covenant. It means that he confirms a 7 year covenant.

That 7 year covenant could be several years old before the AC confirms it.


I'm not saying that the Bible is incorrect. I am saying that your claims do not agree with the written Word of God.

Here is the written word of God in Hebrew in dan 9, and the transliteration in English.
כז וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים, שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד; וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה, וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם, וְעַד-כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה, תִּתַּךְ עַל-שֹׁמֵם. {פ}

9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.

Daniel 1 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

 

[rebuilder 454]

Who initiates the 7 year peace treaty with Israel from Daniel 9:26-27

And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

"He"
That is what it says.
"He" .....the AC

 

[rebuilder 454]

Correct.


You must be reading a bad translation. KJV says that the prince that shall come will confirm a 7 year covenant. That does not mean that he makes a 7 year covenant. It means that he confirms a 7 year covenant.

That 7 year covenant could be several years old before the AC confirms it.


I'm not saying that the Bible is incorrect. I am saying that your claims do not agree with the written Word of God.

That word " confirm" in Hebrew is ONLY used once as "confirmed"...and that instance is Dan 9:27.

All other times it is used as "prevail"

After some investigation, the REASON is because "covenant" in that verse refers to "treaty".

The AC ratifies ( confirms) a treaty.

Ratification can happen the same day...or 2 years etc.

The reason it could take 2 or more years is because of the PARLAMENTRY BODY RED TAPE.

In dan 9; the AC is in power and he has NOBODY stopping him.
No delay.
(Could even be an hour later it is law.)

So your interpretation is built on flawed understanding.
7 yr treaty and the AC is right there implementing and ratifying it.

Covenant...treaty
Confirm...ratify.

7 yr treaty as is plain as day.
3.5 years into it he inactis the AOD.

 

[David in NJ]

"He"
That is what it says.
"He" .....the AC

Correct

Who initiated the 70th Week of Salvation?

 

[The Light]

3.5 years INTO THE COVENANT, the AC makes the AOD.

Right. And the great tribulation cannot begin until the AOD is set up. Therefore, the great tribulation cannot be 7 years long as you claim.

It is not some abstract covenant and timetable that somebody personally ascribes outside the AC arrival.

?????????

 

[ewq1938]

Any interpretation that implies one can know the day and hour of His return could not possibly be the correct interpretation.

Did Christ say that regarding things at the time he spoke it? Wouldn't that change in the future especially new prophecies and visions such as Rev?

 

[David in NJ]

Did Christ say that regarding things at the time he spoke it? Wouldn't that change in the future especially new prophecies and visions such as Rev?

There are THREE Days Spoken by the LORD:
#1 - "Today, If you will hear His Voice" = Today is the Day of Salvation
#2 - "The DAY of the LORD is Coming"
#3 - "No one knows the day(24 hour) or hour(literal) of HIS Coming"/ for the Resurrection & subsequent rapture

#1 - "All whom the FATHER Calls to CHRIST" = John 6:37-40
#2 - "As you SEE the DAY approaching" = Hebrews 10:25 and 1 Thess 5:1-3
#3 - "Watch, for you know not what hour the LORD Comes" = Matthew 24:36-44

 

[Davidpt]

Did Christ say that regarding things at the time he spoke it? Wouldn't that change in the future especially new prophecies and visions such as Rev?

Jesus said only the Father knows that day and hour. It would make Jesus a liar if before that day and hour arrives, that the Father alone does no longer know that day and hour, others do as well. Jesus even said the angels in heaven don't know that day and hour. Why would that change eventually? Why is the Father not allowed to know something that others don't know?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right. And the great tribulation cannot begin until the AOD is set up. Therefore, the great tribulation cannot be 7 years long as you claim.

?????????

You have a totally different timetable based on a strict definition of "trib", "great trib" , and "wrath".

It does not work for several reasons.
In Matthew 24, it says Jesus comes in power and great glory after the tribulation.
So that makes a problem right there because.
When we do the strict definition we gotta do something about the wrath part. And so do we actually have Jesus coming back "prewrath", in power and great glory?
With Jesus doing the wrath while he's on Earth with the white horses and the saints?

....which means he does not come on the wite horses to slay the Antichrist, instead, he comes to inflict wrath on the people on the planet.
For a year or so, then maybe he comes back again with the white horses?

Explain.

 

[rebuilder 454]

That word " confirm" in Hebrew is ONLY used once as "confirmed"...and that instance is Dan 9:27.

All other times it is used as "prevail"

After some investigation, the REASON is because "covenant" in that verse refers to "treaty".

The AC ratifies ( confirms) a treaty.

Ratification can happen the same day...or 2 years etc.

The reason it could take 2 or more years is because of the PARLAMENTRY BODY RED TAPE.

In dan 9; the AC is in power and he has NOBODY stopping him.
No delay.
(Could even be an hour later it is law.)

So your interpretation is built on flawed understanding.
7 yr treaty and the AC is right there implementing and ratifying it.

Covenant...treaty
Confirm...ratify.

7 yr treaty as is plain as day.
3.5 years into it he inactis the AOD.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is the written word of God in Hebrew in dan 9, and the transliteration in English.
כז וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים, שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד; וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה, וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם, וְעַד-כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה, תִּתַּךְ עַל-שֹׁמֵם. {פ}

9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.

Daniel 1 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Jewish site claims the AC MAKES a covenant

7 yr covenant/ treaty ( by the way).

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus said only the Father knows that day and hour. It would make Jesus a liar if before that day and hour arrives, that the Father alone does no longer know that day and hour, others do as well. Jesus even said the angels in heaven don't know that day and hour. Why would that change eventually? Why is the Father not allowed to know something that others don't know?

Exactly.
Once the bride/bridegroom prism is out of the picture, and end times is framed by opinion, and "interpretation via omission" that bible can say pretty much whatever I torture it to say.

 

[David in NJ]

When we do the strict definition we gotta do something about the wrath part. And so do we actually have Jesus coming back "prewrath", in power and great glory?

YES, JESUS Comes Pre-Wrath = for the Saints only

BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of GOD = Matt 4:4 & 1 Thess 1:10

"Wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

 

[The Light]

You have a totally different timetable based on a strict definition of "trib", "great trib" , and "wrath".

Exactly. This is because I understand that the great tribulation is when the dragon is killing believers and the wrath of God is when God takes vengeance on an evil unbelieving world.

I cannot fathom how anyone can think that these are the same events.

It does not work for several reasons.

It does not work in you mind because you fail to address the scriptural FACTS.

In Matthew 24, it says Jesus comes in power and great glory after the tribulation.
So that makes a problem right there because.
When we do the strict definition we gotta do something about the wrath part. And so do we actually have Jesus coming back "prewrath", in power and great glory?

Jesus comes back immediately after the tribulation. That means the great tribulation is over when He comes.

From Matthew 24 below you should be able to properly conclude that Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

From Revelation 6 below you should be able to conclude that the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven when the 6th seal is opened.

With simple deductive reasoning you should now understand that Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation WHEN THE 6TH SEAL IS OPENED.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

With Jesus doing the wrath while he's on Earth with the white horses and the saints?

....which means he does not come on the wite horses to slay the Antichrist, instead, he comes to inflict wrath on the people on the planet.
For a year or so, then maybe he comes back again with the white horses?

Explain.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not the white horses event of Revelation 19. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is for a harvest seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This harvest occurs at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7.

 

[The Light]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Great. But the Antichrist does not make a 7 year treaty. If it is a treaty, it is made by others. The antichrist confirms this covenant. And this can happen years after the 7 year covenant is made.

 

[The Light]

Jewish site claims the AC MAKES a covenant

7 yr covenant/ treaty ( by the way).

There is a 7 year covenant. However, there is still only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel as he is cut off in the middle of the week.

 

[The Light]

YES, JESUS Comes Pre-Wrath = for the Saints only

BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of GOD = Matt 4:4 & 1 Thess 1:10

"Wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

I keep waiting for the light to go on. You know that there are two raptures and it never occurs to you that the Church is raptured before the great tribulation which happens in the midst of the week. And the Jews from the 12 tribes across the earth, which are the seed of the waman are raptured pre wrath. Only the woman and two witnesses and unbelievers are on the earth during the wrath of God.

 

[David in NJ]

I keep waiting for the light to go on. You know that there are two raptures and it never occurs to you that the Church is raptured before the great tribulation which happens in the midst of the week. And the Jews from the 12 tribes across the earth, which are the seed of the waman are raptured pre wrath. Only the woman and two witnesses and unbelievers are on the earth during the wrath of God.

two raptures???

Post the words of Christ of "two raptures"

rapture before the GT???

Post the words of Christ of "rapture before GT"

 

[GRACE ambassador]

You know that there are two raptures and it never occurs to you that the Church is raptured before the great tribulation which happens in the midst of the week.

two raptures???

Try again?:

Borrowed from: '144000 before the throne' thread:

"Nobody is removed from anything" critic said: "There are two raptures, one for the current Church and one for the 12 tribes of Israel."

response: Or, Three?

"Nobody is removed from anything" critic again said: "here is not even one, let alone two."

response: Actually, there are Three:

A) God's Other Different Context of Heavenly Mystery / Grace for The Body Of
Christ (Romans - Philemon) - In God's "Revelation Of The Mystery" we find our
one Mystery resurrection / 'rapture' ( #1 ):

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,​

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall​

sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."​

(1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AV)​

+​

"For The LORD Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of​

the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in​

the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with The LORD.​

Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Corinthians 4:16-18 AV)​

Very comforting Words for the Body Of Christ, All of God's Grace ambassadors being
Recalled To Heaven, At The End Of [ Heavenly ] Grace/Mystery ( see below ) Before...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online)

B) God's Context of earthly prophecy / covenants / law for Israel

(Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation)​

...Before [ Earthly Prophecy Resumes ] God Declares Judgment and War On an UNbelieving world, which is known as:

The Time Of JACOB's ( Israel's ) Trouble, where there are Two More 'raptures':

(#2): The two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12 AV) , And:

(#3): 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8 AV) , and then "redeemed { raptured? }

from the earth, And found before "The Throne Of God" (Revelation 14:3-5 AV)​

Conclusion: Total Future 'raptures' = Three, Correct?

----------------

C) All Related Scriptures Compared, ( Rule #5 ) Rightly Divided are here:

God's Great GRACE Departure

------------------------------

And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

Try again?:

Borrowed from: '144000 before the throne' thread:

"Nobody is removed from anything" critic said: "There are two raptures, one for the current Church and one for the 12 tribes of Israel."

response: Or, Three?

"Nobody is removed from anything" critic again said: "here is not even one, let alone two."

response: Actually, there are Three:

A) God's Other Different Context of Heavenly Mystery / Grace for The Body Of
Christ (Romans - Philemon) - In God's "Revelation Of The Mystery" we find our
one Mystery resurrection / 'rapture' ( #1 ):

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,​

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall​

sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."​

(1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AV)​

+​

"For The LORD Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of​

the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in​

the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with The LORD.​

Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Corinthians 4:16-18 AV)​

Very comforting Words for the Body Of Christ, All of God's Grace ambassadors being
Recalled To Heaven, At The End Of [ Heavenly ] Grace/Mystery ( see below ) Before...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online)

B) God's Context of earthly prophecy / covenants / law for Israel

(Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation)​

...Before [ Earthly Prophecy Resumes ] God Declares Judgment and War On an UNbelieving world, which is known as:

The Time Of JACOB's ( Israel's ) Trouble, where there are Two More 'raptures':

(#2): The two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12 AV) , And:

(#3): 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8 AV) , and then "redeemed { raptured? }

from the earth, And found before "The Throne Of God" (Revelation 14:3-5 AV)​

Conclusion: Total Future 'raptures' = Three, Correct?

----------------

C) All Related Scriptures Compared, ( Rule #5 ) Rightly Divided are here:

God's Great GRACE Departure

------------------------------

And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

View attachment 79016

Post the scripture where JESUS said there will be two raptures.