The "watch rapture view"

[The Light]

Post the scripture where JESUS said there will be two raptures.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus said only the Father knows that day and hour. It would make Jesus a liar if before that day and hour arrives, that the Father alone does no longer know that day and hour, others do as well. Jesus even said the angels in heaven don't know that day and hour. Why would that change eventually? Why is the Father not allowed to know something that others don't know?

Isn't it pretty clear Jesus now knows the day and hour he is returning? Couldn't he have not known it while walking the Earth but after the resurrection have been given the knowledge of it?

 

[David in NJ]

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

GREAT passage of TRUTH =
A.) One Fold/Flock
B.) of Called & Chosen Jews & Gentiles
C.) One New Man/Jew & Gentile
D.) One Body of Christ
E.) One Church
F.) One 2nd Coming for His Bride/Church
G.) One Resurrection for the Sanctified in Christ = First/John 6:35-40/Rev 20:4-6
H.) One rapture for remaining "alive" saints at His 2nd Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor chapter 15

 

[The Light]

GREAT passage of TRUTH =
A.) One Fold/Flock
B.) of Called & Chosen Jews & Gentiles
C.) One New Man/Jew & Gentile
D.) One Body of Christ
E.) One Church
F.) One 2nd Coming for His Bride/Church
G.) One Resurrection for the Sanctified in Christ = First/John 6:35-40/Rev 20:4-6
H.) One rapture for remaining "alive" saints at His 2nd Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor chapter 15

Yep. Post trib which is really post wrath always want to jump right to the end result of two folds joined into one fold.

One fold, one fold, one fold, one body, one Church. And then seem to what to skip the process of how there becomes one fold.

Two folds become one fold. Two raptures become one Church, one great multitude.

Those that know Christ and He knows us are raptured first. Then when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have its blindness removed. Then there are 144,000 first fruits of twelve tribes which become the first fruits of the second fold.

Two folds, two raptures into one fold.

 

[rebuilder 454]

YES, JESUS Comes Pre-Wrath = for the Saints only

BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of GOD = Matt 4:4 & 1 Thess 1:10

"Wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

No rapture verse has Jesus coming in power and great glory.
No rapture verse has the white horses.
Yes.
Jesus comes "prewrath" as you put it.
Pretrib is also prewrath.

If you think mat 24 coming is in power and great glory, why so you then go against the word where Jesus comes AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB ON WHITE HORSES WITH THE SAINTS?

Instead you think "prewrath".
If Jesus comes after the trib/ prewrath (which is a mid trib rapture false teaching), and you try to fit Jesus coming in "power and great glory " ( which is the white horses coming after tge 7 yr trib), then you, and "the light" have Jesus arriving BEFORE THE END OF THE 7 YR TRIB.
You are falsely positioning the timetable.
Flat out making it up.

That is WHY both of you need the 7 yr trib strictly broken up and reinvented
In NO WAY does it fit.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Post the scripture where JESUS said there will be two raptures.

Post one where Jesus SAID he comes on a white horse.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I keep waiting for the light to go on. You know that there are two raptures and it never occurs to you that the Church is raptured before the great tribulation which happens in the midst of the week. And the Jews from the 12 tribes across the earth, which are the seed of the waman are raptured pre wrath. Only the woman and two witnesses and unbelievers are on the earth during the wrath of God.

If You think Jesus comes in power and great glory prewrath then you believe the white horse arrival is prewrath.

Read the description in Rev 19 of Jesus coming in power and great glory.
Ahem...it is NOT "prewrath".
It is POST 7YR TRIB.

Then read the MID TRIB, MID 7 YR GATHERING , "prewrath" RAPTURE OF Jesus,
IN REV 14:14.( WITH NOTHING...NOT A HINT OF "POWER AND GREAT GLORY")

BOTH of you are blenderizing definitions/verses to arrive at a 100% impossibility

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a 7 year covenant. However, there is still only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel as he is cut off in the middle of the week.

No
The ac makes a 7 yr treaty.
In the middle of it, he inaugurated the AOD.

Your model has the ac with a different arrival and the AOD starting the arrival.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Great. But the Antichrist does not make a 7 year treaty. If it is a treaty, it is made by others. The antichrist confirms this covenant. And this can happen years after the 7 year covenant is made.

Here is the written word of God in Hebrew in dan 9, and the transliteration in English.
כז וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים, שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד; וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה, וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם, וְעַד-כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה, תִּתַּךְ עַל-שֹׁמֵם. {פ}

9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.

He...THE AC...MAKES A 7 YR COVENANT.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Exactly. This is because I understand that the great tribulation is when the dragon is killing believers and the wrath of God is when God takes vengeance on an evil unbelieving world.

I cannot fathom how anyone can think that these are the same events.


It does not work in you mind because you fail to address the scriptural FACTS.


Jesus comes back immediately after the tribulation. That means the great tribulation is over when He comes.

From Matthew 24 below you should be able to properly conclude that Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

From Revelation 6 below you should be able to conclude that the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven when the 6th seal is opened.

With simple deductive reasoning you should now understand that Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation WHEN THE 6TH SEAL IS OPENED.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not the white horses event of Revelation 19. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is for a harvest seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This harvest occurs at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7.

You said all that while OMITTING that mat 24 coming is in POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

The post 7 yr trib coming of rev 19 is in power and great glory.

The mid 7 yr trib ( prewrath and posrib coming as you like to put it) is Rev 14:14.

ABSOLUTELY 2 DIFFERENT DYNAMICS.

THEY WILL NOT BLEND INTO WHAT you are doing in your interpretation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right. And the great tribulation cannot begin until the AOD is set up. Therefore, the great tribulation cannot be 7 years long as you claim.

?????????

Call the 7 yr covenant of the AC whatever suits you.

The prewrath, .. midtrib 7 yr trib gathereing Is Rev 14:14.

The AC starts, ratifies, makes, confirms, a 7 yr treaty and breaks it mid trib.

 

[David in NJ]

Yep. Post trib which is really post wrath always want to jump right to the end result of two folds joined into one fold.

the LORD Jesus Christ is POST TRIB = "IAM the Way the Truth and the Life" = "take up your cross and Follow ME"

One fold, one fold, one fold, one body, one Church. And then seem to what to skip the process of how there becomes one fold.

The Process to One Fold is One Salvation = One Resurrection for the Just = One subsequent rapture for those remaining

Two folds become one fold.

FULLY Accomplished at the Cross = "It is FINISHED/COMPLETED"

Two raptures become one Church, one great multitude

One Resurrection followed by One rapture = ONE FINAL Gathering = Mark 13:27 = ONE Great Multitude of SAVED Jews & Gentiles

Those that know Christ and He knows us are raptured first.

FALSE/ERROR/man-made doctrine/antichrist

TRUTH
Those that belong to CHRIST are Resurrected FIRST = 1 Thess 4:13-16

Those who remain (in Christ) are raptured AFTER the Resurrection = 1 Thess 13:15-17

 

[David in NJ]

Post one where Jesus SAID he comes on a white horse.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

 

[rebuilder 454]

the LORD Jesus Christ is POST TRIB = "IAM the Way the Truth and the Life" = "take up your cross and Follow ME"


The Process to One Fold is One Salvation = One Resurrection for the Just = One subsequent rapture for those remaining


FULLY Accomplished at the Cross = "It is FINISHED/COMPLETED"


One Resurrection followed by One rapture = ONE FINAL Gathering = Mark 13:27 = ONE Great Multitude of SAVED Jews & Gentiles


FALSE/ERROR/man-made doctrine/antichrist

TRUTH
Those that belong to CHRIST are Resurrected FIRST = 1 Thess 4:13-16

Those who remain (in Christ) are raptured AFTER the Resurrection = 1 Thess 13:15-17

Note that there is no "one resurrection/rapture" adherennt that embraces Rev 14:14.
Not one.
Then, if they try to unpack it they MUST change it.

Amazing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Not what I declared.
You wanted a quote by Jesus.

My response was concerning a quote.
I asked you for a quote, BY JESUS, where HE SAID HE WAS COMING ON A WHITE HORSE.

REREAD my post showing the folly of "missing quote" doctrine where you think you proved something by a missing quote.

 

[David in NJ]

Note that there is no "one resurrection/rapture" adherennt that embraces Rev 14:14.
Not one.

Sure there is.
Why would you seek another?

Oh, i know, you want to believe in a man-made doctrine that tickles the ears = pre-trib

 

[The Light]

No rapture verse has Jesus coming in power and great glory.

This is not correct.

Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal for the second harvest.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

No rapture verse has the white horses.

Correct.

Yes.
Jesus comes "prewrath" as you put it.
Pretrib is also prewrath.

There is a pretrib rapture which is pre great tribulation which begins in the midst of the week.

There is also a pre wrath rapture that occurs at the 6th seal and then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

If you think mat 24 coming is in power and great glory, why so you then go against the word where Jesus comes AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB ON WHITE HORSES WITH THE SAINTS?

Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the 7th seal wrath of God begins.

That is WHY both of you need the 7 yr trib strictly broken up and reinvented
In NO WAY does it fit.

There is no 7 year great tribulation as there is only 3.5 weeks remaining in the 70th week of Daniel.

Yes, there is a one week covenant that is confirmed but nothing says that the Antichrist makes this covenant..........he confirms it or strengthens it.

 

[The Light]

The prewrath, .. midtrib 7 yr trib gathereing Is Rev 14:14.

Negative. Pre wrath occurs at the 6th seal. Revelation 14:14 is Matthew 24:29-31 which occur immediately after the tribulation and before the 7th seal wrath of God.

The AC starts, ratifies, makes, confirms, a 7 yr treaty and breaks it mid trib.

The antichrist does not make the covenant with many. He confirms the covenant with many and this can be a couple of years after it is made.

 

[covenantee]

Negative. Pre wrath occurs at the 6th seal. Revelation 14:14 is Matthew 24:29-31 which occur immediately after the tribulation and before the 7th seal wrath of God.


The antichrist does not make the covenant with many. He confirms the covenant with many and this can be a couple of years after it is made.

The grammatical referent/antecedent of the Covenant Confirmer is Messiah the Prince.

Explain how Messiah the Prince is the antichrist.

 

[The Light]

The grammatical referent/antecedent of the Covenant Confirmer is Messiah the Prince.

Explain how Messiah the Prince is the antichrist.

You are making an incorrect conclusion.

If you were correct, that Jesus is the prince that shall come in the text, then it means that the Jews would have, or will in the future destroy the city of Jerusalem. Don't think so.

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Also, it would mean that the covenant that is confirmed by the prince that shall come will be one week.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What covenant did Jesus confirm for one week?