Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Lambano]

For example:

I overthrew you, as God overthrew Sodoma and Gomorrha, and ye became as a brand plucked out of the fire: yet not even thus did ye return to me, says Yahweh.
Am 4:11 (Yahweh is talking about God in the third person)

For many other examples and context, you can watch this:

Not convincing. The Amos quote confirms that YHWH is God, which would not be under dispute either from classical Jewish monotheism or when identifying YHWH as the Father.

I do have Alan Segal's book The Two Powers In Heaven on my future reading list. But the point under contention in this diversion isn't the multi-person nature of "God", it's the identity of the person named "YHWH".

 

[HealthyShape]

Not convincing. The Amos quote confirms that YHWH is God, which would not be under dispute either from classical Jewish monotheism or when identifying YHWH as the Father.

I do have Alan Segal's book The Two Powers In Heaven on my future reading list. But the point under contention in this diversion isn't the multi-person nature of "God", it's the identity of the person named "YHWH".

I do not understand your answer. The verse does not say that YHWH is God. The verse is a quote from YHWH who talks about God.

This duality is also here:

YHWH rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from YHWH out of heaven.
Gen 19:24

The Sodom and Gomorrah narrative contains two figures - YHWH and YHWH or YHWH and God, depending on in which place.

 

[Behold]

I find it problematic that a person can call themselves a Christian and yet believe that Jesus is not God,,,
which, basically, would be idolatry...

The doctrine of the Trinity, is something a Christian learns after they become a Christian.
So, not believing in this doctrine, does not stop you from becoming a Christian, so, if you never come to the revelation of the Trinity after you became a Christrian........ you're still a Chrisitan.

The "Gospel" (Paul's Gospel).... has no requirment that you believe that Jesus is God...........it only requires that you place your faith in Christ.

 

[HealthyShape]

@Lambano also, all the places with the angel of the Lord (or the angel of YHWH) are interesting, because texts frequently refer to the angel as to YHWH. Sometimes, both the angel and YHWH are in the text as two figures in the same time and sometimes they are both YHWH (or God) interchangeably.

An angel of YHWH appeared to Moses in a blazing fire out of a bush... When YHWH saw that Moses had turned aside to
look, God called to him out of the bush.
Ex 3:2,4

 

[GodsGrace]

Theology is just a subset of Philosophy. And Jesus used analogies all the time.

Again He asked, "To what can I compare the kingdom of God? (Luke 13:20)

Did you see post 1302?

I'm not here to discuss philosophy.

 

[GodsGrace]

The doctrine of the Trinity, is something a Christian learns after they become a Christian.
So, not believing in this doctrine, does not stop you from becoming a Christian, so, if you never come to the revelation of the Trinity after you became a Christrian........ you're still a Chrisitan.

The "Gospel" (Paul's Gospel).... has no requirment that you believe that Jesus is God...........it only requires that you place your faith in Christ.

Behold,,,
Exactly WHAT defines a Christian according to you?

And is it according to you...
or is it already established??

 

[HealthyShape]

The God in whose ways Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd, the Angel who has redeemed me from
all harm - may HE bless these lads.
Gen 48:15-16 (God and the Angel of the Lord are referred to as one being)

 

[GodsGrace]

The God in whose ways Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd, the Angel who has redeemed me from
all harm - may HE bless these lads.
Gen 48:15-16 (God and the Angel of the Lord are referred to as one being)

Not only that...
but
ANGELS do NOT redeem.

GOD redeems.

In the OT God declared:
I MYSELF WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE.
I MYSELF WILL SHEPHERD THEM.
etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

The doctrine of the Trinity, is something a Christian learns after they become a Christian.

PS
I agree with this.
However, yes, it must be learned...
and even if not understood, a CHRISTIAN
should not be debating whether or not Jesus is God.

So, not believing in this doctrine, does not stop you from becoming a Christian, so, if you never come to the revelation of the Trinity after you became a Christrian........ you're still a Chrisitan.

The "Gospel" (Paul's Gospel).... has no requirment that you believe that Jesus is God...........it only requires that you place your faith in Christ.

 

[Lambano]

Did you see post 1302?

I'm not here to discuss philosophy.

Hey, you tagged me; it comes with the territory.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Father's Name is YHWH
The Son's name is Jesus
The Holy Ghost has no personal name
The Psalm makes sense if you understand these principles.

The Triune Godhead cannot properly be thought of as a single person (though we do it anyway; a de factor fourth person) and thus cannot be referred to by a single personal name.

Who ever said that the Triune God is one singular Person??

Here is the Trinity again:

GOD IS ONE BEING
IN THIS ONE BEING
EXIST THREE PERSONS.

BEING tells us WHAT God is.
PERSON tells us WHO God is.

FATHER IS A PERSON
SON IS A PERSON
HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON

How you get 4 out of that I don't know....
but
there are THREE PERSONS
IN ONE GOD.

Whether or not you understand it is of no consequence.
It must be ACCEPTED if one is going to define themselves as CHRISTIAN.

It's the numer one Christian TENET.

Do YOU accept that Jesus died for your sins?
Good.

Now what If I told you that I'm Christian but I
do NOT accept the sacrifice of Jesus.

Am I Christian?

(see I used an analogy-kind of).

 

[HealthyShape]

Not only that...
but
ANGELS do NOT redeem.

GOD redeems.

In the OT God declared:
I MYSELF WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE.
I MYSELF WILL SHEPHERD THEM.
etc.

All these Old Testament places (and others, like the Son of Man in Daniel) were probably the reason why the disciples of Jesus had no problem calling Him God and worshiping Him. There has always been this multi-personal existence of God in the Jewish thinking.

 

[Lambano]

BEING tells us WHAT God is.
PERSON tells us WHO God is.

Now you're getting philosophical.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey, you tagged me; you get what you get.

Did you see my post?
It seems as though you didn't.

It responds to what you posted in 1306.
IOW, you were repeating what the other member stated,
to which I was responding, as though you never read the post
in which I tagged you.

 

[Lambano]

Who ever said that the Triune God is one singular Person??

How do we relate to the Triune Godhead?

 

[GodsGrace]

Now you're getting philosophical.

See. You didn't read my post.

I said Pastors, Priests, and all scholars MUST KNOW philosophy.
NOT us on these boards.
We should use only the bible since I doubt any of us here is a philosopher.
They usually don't spend time on forums.

 

[GodsGrace]

How do we relate to the Triune Godhead?

Been through this before.
I'm not repeating.

You can relate to God however you wish to.
You can relate to Son however you wish to.
You can relate to Holy Spirit however you wish to.

I went into detail about the funciton of the different Persons.
Apparently it was not accepted.
Which is your right.

What is NOT your right is to debate the divinity of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey, you tagged me; it comes with the territory.

You changed your post.
You said I GET WHAT I GET (meaning ME).

I'm not worried about what I get Lambano.
I'm secure in my Christian theology.

 

[GodsGrace]

All these Old Testament places (and others, like the Son of Man in Daniel) were probably the reason why the disciples of Jesus had no problem calling Him God and worshiping Him. There has always been this multi-personal existence of God in the Jewish thinking.

Yes sir.
Scholars have written books about this.
But persons tend to stick to what they WANT to know and not the rest.

 

[Grailhunter]

How many beliefs do you think Christianity should have?

This is EXACTLY the problem I'm speaking to....

There is a difference between religious beliefs and reality. We do not have to have faith that George Washington was a president.....it is history. The problem comes when people want to re-write history and thereby reality.