Who is "the god of this world"? God or satan?

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PS95

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It’s amazing how many miss the “through” and accept the “by”....

Yes the architect always gets the credit first...not the builder. Yahweh is the great Architect...his son was his “master worker”....it’s all there in the Scriptures but satan can make the truth look like a lie.
AJ please address my reply above. Post 117

as to DIA9 through or by) in the Greek, DIA means
through, by, because of, for the sake of.

Just as we see in Romans 11:36 This speaks of the Father--

33Oh, the depth of the riches, [l]both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM, [m]THAT IT WOULD BE PAID BACK TO HIM? 36For from Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory [n]forever. Amen.

Therefore, your argument falls

btw- You do realize that architect is a free mason term?
 

David in NJ

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It’s amazing how many miss the “through” and accept the “by”....

Yes the architect always gets the credit first...not the builder. Yahweh is the great Architect...his son was his “master worker”....it’s all there in the Scriptures but satan can make the truth look like a lie.
Yes, Satan makes the TRUTH look like a lie to those who believe it.

Satan's work = NWT = "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"
 

Keiw

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It’s amazing how many miss the “through” and accept the “by”....

Yes the architect always gets the credit first...not the builder. Yahweh is the great Architect...his son was his “master worker”....it’s all there in the Scriptures but satan can make the truth look like a lie.
It worked the same with Noah. Jehovah created and was architect of the ark. Noah built it.
 
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PS95

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It worked the same with Noah. Jehovah created and was architect of the ark. Noah built it.
Noah was a man on the earth.. this comparison is silly. God spoke all things into existence.

Psalm 33:6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Psalm 33:9 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Genesis 1;:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2 Peter 3:5-7

For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
 
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David in NJ

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Then why do you?
i know the Way the Truth and the Life = the Word that was God in the beginning.
i know Him, the Word, that was with God in the beginning.
i know that all things, including yourself, exist because of the Word, who came to earth and became flesh.
His name was called Immanuel, meaning "God with us"

Because i know the Truth, i also know that no lie is of the Truth.
The Word that was "a god" is a lie because God said so = Deuteronomy 5:6-7

‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
 

ewq1938

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‘The god of this world has blinded people to the Gospel.


Satan is the god of this world.

Nope. He is not a god. He is ruler of this kosmos but God is the God of the Aion, the one and only one who is blinding people in the letter Paul wrote.
 

ewq1938

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AWESOME and Good Morning here from NJ

:)

Who is blinding in this verse?

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
 

Keiw

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Noah was a man on the earth.. this comparison is silly. God spoke all things into existence.

Psalm 33:6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Psalm 33:9 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Genesis 1;:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2 Peter 3:5-7

For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Yes God said = Jehovah, not Jesus. There was no being named Jesus in the OT.
Through him= another did it in every language on Earth.
 

Keiw

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i know the Way the Truth and the Life = the Word that was God in the beginning.
i know Him, the Word, that was with God in the beginning.
i know that all things, including yourself, exist because of the Word, who came to earth and became flesh.
His name was called Immanuel, meaning "God with us"

Because i know the Truth, i also know that no lie is of the Truth.
The Word that was "a god" is a lie because God said so = Deuteronomy 5:6-7

‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
ALL who have the way, the truth and the life went -THROUGH Jesus to get to his Father to accomplish this-John 4:22-24) daily. See Jesus assures all true followers will be doing just that. Those actually believe Jesus over blind guide dogmas. Like here at John 17:3--Where Jesus teaches-The one who sent him= Father, is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. We all choose who we believe.
 

Keiw

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Jesus is God the Son so when the bible says God said something, it could have been him or another of the Trinity.
There is no God the son mentioned in Gods bible. Its a twisting of men. Jesus has a God( Psalm 45:7-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3--Eph 1:3-- 1Pet 1:33--taught many times-Jesus has a God. FACT= God does NOT have a God.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Yes, Satan makes the TRUTH look like a lie to those who believe it.

Satan's work = NWT = "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"
I didn’t use the NWT David.....I use Christendom’s Bible translations in my responses to those who post Scripture because I have studied the Hebrew and Greek applications of the words used to either a Hebrew or Greek speaking audience....not to an English speaking one.

If you rely on English translations alone...the devil has worked his magic, using his minions to translate words that are not there....and omitting words that are.

John 1:1 is translated in the NWT from the Greek text....not copied from erroneous English translations that fail to render the verse correctly.

I have told you this already many times....”theos” (“god”) can refer to Yahweh (identified by the definite article “ho”) but also to angels, magistrates and judges who can rightly be identified as “gods” as the word was understood in Bible times in the Greek language......it can also refer to Jesus in the primary definition of the word....
  1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.
So not a word that applies exclusively to God (with a capital “G”).
Jesus can be of divine origin, and be divine (perfect, sinless) in his human nature, but that didn’t make him “God”...or anywhere near his equal. He was 100% human....something Yahweh could never be.

Let’s see if you can see where John 1:1 is mistranslated....(I won’t hold my breath)
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

In the Greek Interlinear...word for word, this is what John 1:1 says........”In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”

What is the first thing you notice there?.....the use of capital letters, when there are no capital letters in Greek...no upper and lower case.....this is significant because the use of capital letters can change the meaning of “theos” to something it never meant in Scripture.
It has a variety of meanings as Strongs defines it....
  1. “spoken of the only and true God
    1. refers to the things of God
    2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
  2. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
    1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges”.
You will also notice that the word “ho” means “the” (the definite article)....and is applied to “the Word” as well as to “the God”, (ho theos) but only in the first instance. There is no definite article with the second mention of “theos”, which there would be if only Yahweh had been spoken about.

Why do you suppose that the translators eliminate the mention of “ho” altogether when “theos” was written, referring to the one true God, but treated it as if the word wasn’t even there?

If you check Greek Interlinears, you will find that this little word is largely ignored when applied to the true God...you will see a little dash where it should have been translated.....but purposely, wasn’t......yet it is a vital part of any passage of Scripture.....it identifies “God” (Yahweh) from lesser ones who are also divine or are divinely authorised.

The only reason why the trinity took root in the era after Jesus death, was because the Israelites had disobeyed their God (as usual) and failed to do what he commanded them to do through Moses...
In Exodus 3:15....which from the Jewish Tanakh reads...

15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

“The LORD God” there is Yahweh, but that is not his name....as you can see the divine name in the Jewish text. God’s name is “יְהֹוָ֞ה” (Yahweh)...and it is there undeniably.

If the Jews had retained the divine name in their speech, as they had retained it in their Scripture, the trinity could never have even been a remote idea. Monotheism would not allow it....the God of Israel was Yahweh and he was “one”...not three. (Deut 6:4) It was only the pagans who worshipped multiple gods.

Jesus and all the first Christians were Jewish, and to even entertain the thought that their God was changed into a three headed entity, that they had never heard of, would have been rejected outright. The Jews balked at him claiming to be “the Son of God”, let alone an equal god with his Father. (John 10:31-36)

And if the English translators had not followed Jewish tradition by failing to use God’s name in their translations almost 7000 times! in the Hebrew Scriptures alone....the Bible would read vastly differently to what it does today.
The LORD Yahweh would never have been confused with the Lord Jesus Christ....Yahweh’s “anointed one”....his “firstborn son” is never called “ho theos” in a single passage of Scripture.
 
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ewq1938

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There is no God the son mentioned in Gods bible.

The Son is called God so it is in the bible.


Its a twisting of men. Jesus has a God( Psalm 45:7-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3--Eph 1:3-- 1Pet 1:33--taught many times-Jesus has a God. FACT= God does NOT have a God.

God the Son has a God, God the Father.
 

Aunty Jane

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Firstborn refers to ruler, not the first created. Jesus is ruler over all creation.
It doesn’t say “over”...it says that Jesus is the “firstborn of all creation”...which makes him part of that creation.
Col 1:15-17
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (NASB)

How can a human be the visible image of one who is invisible? An image is a reflection of something, not the thing itself.

Creation came “through” the son and if you notice that it says...
“all things have been created through Him and for Him”....”through him and for him” is not “by him and from him”. There is only one Creator and that is Yahweh....the son of Yahweh is not Yahweh.
We have two participants involved in creation using God’s powerful spirit to accomplish it.

Creation was to be a gift from God to his son. Creation had a purpose...so what was God’s purpose in putting us here on this tiny planet in the corner of one galaxy among millions?
What will be accomplished here that will set precedent s for all eternity?

Do you have a big picture 1stCL?

Before being born of Mary, Jesus was the Word. "3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." How could He create Himself?
He didn’t obviously... Yahweh is uncreated but his son was his “firstborn”....“monogenes” means an only child...and this unique son was the first and only direct creation of his God and Father.....all other things were created by the son under God’s direction....and using his infinite power.

Can we examine an important passage of Scripture?

1 Cor 15: 20-28....NASB...
“But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.”

What do you read there in all honesty?

Christ is the first human to be raised to spirit life in heaven....the “firstfruits” of those who “are asleep” and who would come after him, in the same kind of resurrection to spirit life in heaven.
A resurrection was foretold, but it had an order....Jesus was first to be raised to heaven.....and those who belong to Christ “at his coming” would be next
And then “the end comes”.....but what is this “the end“ of? A period when he was to abolish all corrupt rulership on this earth, and then take up rulership himself until he has accomplished the removal of all the things that satan’s rulership had ruined for mankind.
The last enemy to be vanquished is “death”.

He will be ruler over all creation until he brings the flawed human race back to sinless perfection at the end of his 1000 year reign....only when he has accomplished this, will he hand the rulership of the Kingdom back into the hands of our rightful Sovereign....his God and Father. He then subjects himself to his God and Father....how can God do that to his equal self?

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
It was “ho logos” who became flesh....not “ho theos”. The glory Jesus received as God’s “only begotten” was from his Father.
David was the youngest of many brothers but in Psalms 89 he is called "firstborn."
Abraham had a son before Isaac, but the one through whom the Messiah was to come was not Ishmael.
When God foreshadowed the sacrifice of his only son, asking Abraham to offer up Isaac, what did he say...?

“But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” (Gen 22:11-12 NASB)
See Heb 11:17 where this is restated.

“Firstborn” sons had inheritance rights that other sons did not receive.
As with Jacob and Esau, the younger was the chosen one, not the older son who should have inherited the birthright....but sold it for a bowl of stew....indicating a lack of spiritual appreciation.

But the term “monogenes” simply means “an only child”. It is not a term exclusive to Jesus...
Luke 7:12, Luke 8:42, Luke 9:38, John 1:14, 5John 3:16, 1 John 4:9.
 
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ewq1938

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It doesn’t say “over”...it says that Jesus is the “firstborn of all creation”...which makes him part of that creation.

It says he created all things so he cannot have created himself because you have to exist before creating.

The one we call Jesus was not created, talking about him before incarnation.

The better translation:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He was not the first to be born so this is about importance not order of literal birth.


Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And being before all things means he was not creating himself with all the rest of creation.
 
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PS95

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Yes God said = Jehovah, not Jesus. There was no being named Jesus in the OT.
Through him= another did it in every language on Earth.
Did you even read the scriptures I gave you Keiw? I ask because you normally don't.
It says clearly that the WORD of God called all things into existence...
Who is the Word of God?



2 Peter 3:5-7
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water.



PSALM 33
6By the word of the LORD the heavens were made,

And by the breath of His mouth all their hosts.

7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;

He puts the depths in storehouses.

8Let all the earth fear the LORD;

Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.


9For He spoke, and it was done;


He commanded, and it stood firm.

WHO SPOKE? THE WORD--- verse 6.



Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.



Again- WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
Do you suppose John and Peter knew the Psalms?


You can not wiggle out of that one. Although you will try to fight against the truth as usual. Jesus is the truth.
 
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David in NJ

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:)

Who is blinding in this verse?

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
GOD gave the Jews over to blindness of the MESSIAH in the Torah/OT Prophets = "veil of Moses"

Satan blinds the minds of the nations = 1 John 5:19 & 2 Tim 2:26

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
 

David in NJ

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ALL who have the way, the truth and the life went -THROUGH Jesus to get to his Father to accomplish this-John 4:22-24) daily. See Jesus assures all true followers will be doing just that. Those actually believe Jesus over blind guide dogmas. Like here at John 17:3--Where Jesus teaches-The one who sent him= Father, is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. We all choose who we believe.
The one who sent him= Father, is THE ONLY TRUE GOD = "I and My FATHER are ONE"

I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the Glory I had with You before the world existed.

so that all may honor the Son just as/same as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

"I and My FATHER are ONE"
 

JLB

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Nope. He is not a god. He is ruler of this kosmos but God is the God of the Aion, the one and only one who is blinding people in the letter Paul wrote.

‘Well you have chosen to reject what the scripture.


In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Corinthians 4:4 NKJV


The god of this world has blinded people to the Gospel.


Satan is the god of this world.


Do you believe Jesus has blinded lost people to the Gospel?


We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
1 John 5:19

For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 1 John 2:16