I dont see anything from you here from Genesis that says anything about the cross
I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15
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In the wilderness, after Israel was delivered from Egypt, the people became tired and impatient. They spoke against God and against Moses. They complained about the journey, the food, and God’s care, even though He had rescued them with great power. Because of this rebellion, God allowed fiery serpents to come among the people, and many were bitten and died (And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Numbers 21:6).
This judgment showed a deep truth. Sin brings death. The serpent was not just an animal. From the beginning, the serpent represents sin, deception, and rebellion against God (Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. Genesis 3:1). The people were dying because of their sin, not just because of snake bites.
When the people repented, they came to Moses and confessed their sin. They did not excuse themselves. They admitted they had spoken against God (We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. Numbers 21:7). Moses prayed for the people, and God provided a way of salvation.
God did not remove the serpents. Instead, He gave a remedy. He told Moses to make a serpent of brass and lift it up on a pole. Anyone who had been bitten could look at it and live (And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. Numbers 21:8).
This is very important. The brass serpent looked like the very thing that was killing them. It represented sin and judgment. Yet it had no poison in it. It could not harm anyone. It was lifted up where everyone could see it. The healing did not come from touching it, working for it, or earning it. Healing came by looking in faith and trusting God’s word (And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21:9).
Jesus Himself explained that this event was not just history. It was a prophecy pointing directly to Him. He said, just as the serpent was lifted up, He also would be lifted up (And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. John 3:14).
The comparison is exact and powerful. Humanity is bitten by sin. Sin spreads death to everyone. No one can heal himself. No one can undo the poison. The cross is God’s remedy.
Jesus, who had no sin, was lifted up on the cross. He became the atonement for sin, carrying the judgment of sin for us. Just as the serpent was lifted up in public view, Jesus was lifted up before all. Just as the people only had to look and live, Jesus says that whoever believes in Him receives eternal life (That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15).
Looking at the serpent required faith. Some may have doubted. Some may have thought it was foolish. Some may have tried other remedies. But only one way brought life. In the same way, many stumble at the cross, but it is God’s power to save. (But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1 Corinthians 1:23–24).
There is also a warning in this story. Later in Israel’s history, the people began to worship the bronze serpent itself. It became an idol, and King Hezekiah had to destroy it (And he brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it. 2 Kings 18:4). This shows that symbols save no one. Objects save no one. Only obedience and faith in God save.
The serpent on the pole was never meant to be worshiped. It was meant to point to God’s mercy. In the same way, the cross itself is not magic. It is what happened on the cross, and who was on it, that saves.
Jesus finished the work. The people in the wilderness still had to choose to look. Today, people must choose to believe and follow, and trust Him. The cure has been lifted up for all to see.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me (John 12:32).
In this account Jesus being lifted up is not about the cross
It leads to John 3:14 and for Israel to believe on him and on his name Jojn 3:18
John 12:32 doed speak of his death on the cross but not all it accomplishe
This doesnt deal with saying the cross was in Genesis
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
HalleluYAH
i am going to print this out, many copies, and hand it out to the rabbis that come to our house.
Pray for lead rabbi Asher
@GRACE ambassador = you MUST embrace the TRUTH in @LoveYeshua post 282
If you refuse God's TRUTH, you will remain in confusion and erroneously dividing the scriptures.
I will pray for Rabbi Asher, please use any texts of mine freely, anytime.
Blessings Brother.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I am also asking our LORD to transfer you here like HE did with Philip - Acts 8:26-40
In this account Jesus being lifted up is not about the cross
[John 3:14 KJV] "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"
[John 3:15 KJV] "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."...............Jesus said that just as the serpent was lifted up Israel was to look upon him and believe in him
[John 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."...............believe in him how? by believing in his name NOT the cross yet, Israel had to believe in his name by believing he was their messiah the Son of God
[John 12:32 KJV] "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."
[John 12:33 KJV] "This he said, signifying what death he should die."............Jesus here is speaking of his death on the cross but not what it it would accomplish
This doesnt show anything from Genesis showing the cross as you say
This may be good for the Rabbis in that they first need to know Jesus is the Messiah the Son of God but it says nothing of the cross
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Doug, the parallel is there to see but you cannot at this time, but I see that now you are quoting from the gospels of Jesus our lord and Savior, now for a moment take Jesus words and make them yours, that is elevate them above all else in your life as it should be and you will start to see things differently forget the rest just focus on Jesus, His words are eternal life. During the transfiguration of Jesus our lord, a voice from our father in heaven said;
“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”
Mat 17:2 There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
Mat 17:3 Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus.
Mat 17:4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three shelters —one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
Mat 17:5 While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”
Mat 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown in terror.
Mat 17:7 Then Jesus came over and touched them. “Get up,” He said. “Do not be afraid.”
Mat 17:8 And when they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
I never said that only Paul's scripture was to be valued. We can learn from all of it. The only scripture that pertains to me is what is found restated in Paul.
Here is an example
[Matthew 22:37 KJV] "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
[1 Corinthians 16:22 KJV] "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha."...........what Jesus says applies to me because Jesus restated it thru Paul
Doug what Jesus said does not have to be restated by paul, He is one with God he is God.
Yes Jesus is God He doesnt need Paul to verify what Jesus says. Jesus reveals to us all he wants us to know and obey
""Gentiles were always in God’s plan.""
""Always judged by the same God.""
and as of 1 Tim 1:16, saved,sealed,justified by the Gospel as ONLY revealed to Paul by Christ Gal 1:11-12. 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13.
yes I agree, gentiles were always in god's plans all we will all be judged according to the words of Jesus.
I understand that Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 includes all believers today & started as of 1 Tim 1:16,
Those believers are saved/sealed by the Gospel Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:14, Eph 1:13.
Their/our judgement (Rom14:10) occurs at 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10.
Regarding believers today, are there verses that you believe teach otherwise ?
Yes. The first amongst the Jews as was promised and then the Gentiles also per the same promise.
I hear the verses you are pointing to, but the problem is not the verses. It is where the argument begins.
It begins with a completed framework and then asks others to accept it or disprove it. That is not how truth is tested in Scripture. Jesus never began with systems or categories. He began with simple questions about obedience, fruit, and whether a person actually hears and does God’s word.
Jesus taught that His own words will judge on the last day. He taught that a tree is known by its fruit. He taught that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” belongs to Him, but those who do the will of the Father. Those teachings come before any later explanations.
So before asking who is sealed, who belongs to which group, or how judgment is arranged, the first question must be simpler: what did Jesus Himself teach people to believe, to live, and to obey?
If someone hears His words and does them, Scripture calls that person His disciple. If someone hears them and does not, no theological framework changes that.
That is the place I am starting from.
"""..but the problem is not the verses. It is where the argument begins."""
Acts 9:15, Acts 13:2 teaches that Paul is NOW chosen as Apostle Rom 11:13, & Minister Rom 15:16 to a particular group/age of believers.
Do you accept that that group/age of believers is now/today Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 ?
If not, which verses support your belief ?
The problem does begin at the starting point.
Jesus never said God’s people would be defined by an “age,” a label, or a later apostle. Jesus said the measure is hearing and obeying His words.
“Every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man” (Matthew 7:24, ASV).
Jesus did not divide people by Jew, Greek, or any new category. He divided people by those who do the will of God and those who do not.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21, ASV).
Jesus said there is one flock, and He is the shepherd, not a later framework.
“They shall become one flock, one shepherd” (John 10:16, ASV).
The apostles preached the same thing: repentance, obedience, and faithfulness to Jesus’ teaching.
“We must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29, ASV).
So no, Scripture does not support redefining God’s people by a new “group” or “age.”
Jesus already defined them clearly: those who hear His words and keep them.
That is where the argument must begin.
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