Who is "the god of this world"? God or satan?

[soberxp]

Did you even read the scriptures I gave you Keiw? I ask because you normally don't.
It says clearly that the WORD of God called all things into existence...
Who is the Word of God?



2 Peter 3:5-7
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water.



PSALM 33
6By the word of the LORD the heavens were made,

And by the breath of His mouth all their hosts.

7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;

He puts the depths in storehouses.

8Let all the earth fear the LORD;

Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.

9For He spoke, and it was done;

He commanded, and it stood firm.

WHO SPOKE? THE WORD--- verse 6.


Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.


Again- WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
Do you suppose John and Peter knew the Psalms?


You can not wiggle out of that one. Although you will try to fight against the truth as usual. Jesus is the truth.

Jesus is the truth.But not the only one true God.
Jesus is the truth,God also the truth,
So they are one.
But not as what the Trinity means 3 in 1 God.
The Bible says God made all things by him alone. If you think 3 is mean alone.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

all other things were created by the son under God’s direction....and using his infinite power.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

NOTHING was made that was made. Jesus was not made. He has always been part of God.

We are made in God's image (God being a plural word in this case, Elohim.)

1 Thes. 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Many trinitarians just can't get their mind around what the Bible actually means. They should just read what it says.

We are a triune being. Not three persons, and neither is Elohim. Elohim is the Father/Mind/Spirit; the Holy Spirit/Soul/Power; and Word/Body/Jesus.

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus is the truth.But not the only one true God.
Jesus is the truth,God also the truth,
So they are one.
But not as what the Trinity means 3 in 1 God.
The Bible says God made all things by him alone. If you think 3 is mean alone.

YES = THREE/3 means "alone" for The THREE are ELOHIM/Plural and THEY are ECHAD/ONE in UNITY and SUBSATNCE Being ELOHIM

SEE the ECHAD/ONENESS from the very Beginning in Genesis chapter 1

In the beginning Elohim/Plural created the heavens and the earth.
2The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of Elohim/Plural was hovering over the face of the waters.
3Then Elohim Said,

v26 - Elohim/Plural Said, "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = 3x Spoken Plural

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Aunty Jane. Here is what I am talking about to another JW, but on a different site.

"What you need to know about archangels. Every country has its own archangel. Evil countries also have an archangels, but fallen angels all called princes. Like in Daniel 10, Persia's archangel is their prince. And the prince of Greece would rule next. Michael is the archangel of Israel, not the whole world. Jesus is not Michael. The prince of Israel is Michael. To Daniel, Gabriel said, "Michael is your prince. Daniel was a Jew. In Jude, Michael and Satan were fighting over the body of Moses. Why? Because Moses was a Jew.

JW's are not the only ones to think this. Seventh-day Adventists know that before being born of a woman, Mary, the Word of God was called the Angel of the Lord. He is the only 'angel' mentioned in the Old Testament that allowed Himself to be worshiped. All other angels, even Gabriel would not allow worship. Adventists believe that Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, but erroneously believe He is Michael the Archangel, just as you do. The difference between JW's and SDA's, SDA's know that Jesus is God.

Jesus is called, the Prince of Peace. That is not an archangel. In the same verse, Jesus is also called, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father and Wonderful Counselor. Jesus is the "Child" Isaiah 9:6.

Jesus is the body of God. But the Father is His MIND. The mind is always greater than the body, but they are still one person. A weight-lifter only cares about his body, but he could be dumb as a snail."

 

[David in NJ]

@Aunty Jane. Here is what I am talking about to another JW, but on a different site.

"What you need to know about archangels. Every country has its own archangel. Evil countries also have an archangels, but fallen angels all called princes. Like in Daniel 10, Persia's archangel is their prince. And the prince of Greece would rule next. Michael is the archangel of Israel, not the whole world. Jesus is not Michael. The prince of Israel is Michael. To Daniel, Gabriel said, "Michael is your prince. Daniel was a Jew. In Jude, Michael and Satan were fighting over the body of Moses. Why? Because Moses was a Jew.

JW's are not the only ones to think this. Seventh-day Adventists know that before being born of a woman, Mary, the Word of God was called the Angel of the Lord. He is the only 'angel' mentioned in the Old Testament that allowed Himself to be worshiped. All other angels, even Gabriel would not allow worship. Adventists believe that Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, but erroneously believe He is Michael the Archangel, just as you do. The difference between JW's and SDA's, SDA's know that Jesus is God.

Jesus is called, the Prince of Peace. That is not an archangel. In the same verse, Jesus is also called, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father and Wonderful Counselor. Jesus is the "Child" Isaiah 9:6.

Jesus is the body of God. But the Father is His MIND. The mind is always greater than the body, but they are still one person. A weight-lifter only cares about his body, but he could be dumb as a snail."

GREAT post with just one 'hiccup'

The Word that was GOD has His own MIND!!!
"mind you"

By saying "Jesus was the MIND of God" you inadvertently agree with jw error

 

[amigo de christo]

How do people see when God blinds their eyes?

They dont . And always remember had they not been as the pharisees WHO SAID I SEE
well their sin had not remained on them . WHO were they rejecting .
And all the while who were they claiming to know . SAME ONE .
They claimed they followed moses , G OD was their father
but had that been the case they had BELEIVED in HE WHOM GOD did send and whom MOSES had pointed too all along .
But now you say WE SEE , therefore your SIN remains .
Many do not realize they are but blind and that their sin remains upon them .
And worse , due to ecumenical interfaith who has come to shine the greater darkness unto them
They be led as one man and one heart to the pits of their own perdtion .
There is something we need to be reminded of again .
GOD will not be denied . And if one denies the SON , THEY DO DENY THE FATHER .
Just a reminder for us all to hear and to receive .

 

[amigo de christo]

GREAT post with just one 'hiccup'

The Word that was GOD has His own MIND!!!
"mind you"

By saying "Jesus was the MIND of God" you inadvertently agree with jw error

Oh the jw and their watchtower and greek redone bible
is more than just a hiccup . As i am sure you well know that my friend .
Its a death trap meant to keep the c hidren trapped in the d arkness and far f rom THE LI GHT
by which they could have SEEN their e rror .
For what i say to one i say to all .
yes the reminder must be brought again , and even to those who know it
IT is but good refreshment to the so ul .
SO here it is for all to see .
IT is written , and no prophet, king , not moses or any other would lay cliam to this title .
I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . TELL THEM that I AM has sent thee .
Now where do we hear these words and from WHOM do we hear them . WELL FROM GOD of course .
Now do we hear such a title and such words being spoken by another IN THE NEW TESTAMENT .
WHY YES we surely do .
AND i turned to see the voice that had spoken to me
and i seen one like unto the SON OF MAN
and What did THIS one say to john .
Fear not , I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . And some time earlier while THIS ONE
was on earth had said , BEFORE abraham was .................I AM . and they PICKED UP STONES ....................
Actually its really something when you t hink about it .
here they were ready to STONE the very one who had created all and accused him of blasphemy
against GOD , when it was THEY WHO BLASPHEMED GOD . something else aint it . what a mystery this is
That GOD was manifested in the flesh
seen of angels , preached unto the world , recieved back up into Glory .
For in the beginning was THE WORD and the Word was with GOD and the Word was GOD . what a mystery indeed .
The FATHER revealed IN THE SON ,WHO MANIFESTED THE NAME OF GOD .

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is the truth.But not the only one true God.
Jesus is the truth,God also the truth,
So they are one.
But not as what the Trinity means 3 in 1 God.
The Bible says God made all things by him alone. If you think 3 is mean alone.

Well said!

YES = THREE/3 means "alone"

This is the most illogical thing ever. 1 is the loneliest number. Haven't you ever heard that song?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

GREAT post with just one 'hiccup'

The Word that was GOD has His own MIND!!!
"mind you"

By saying "Jesus was the MIND of God" you inadvertently agree with jw error

I said just the opposite. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

The Father is the mind of Jesus. Not, Jesus was the mind of God. Just as the born again have a new mind, the mind of Jesus. 1 Cor. 2:16

The mind of the Father speaks the Word.

 

[PS95]

Jesus is the truth.But not the only one true God.
Jesus is the truth,God also the truth,
So they are one.
But not as what the Trinity means 3 in 1 God.
The Bible says God made all things by him alone. If you think 3 is mean alone.

That's not an answer to my Q- I did not know you are a JW too. .. but since you want to reply for Keiw--
WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
Please read these passages-

2 Peter 3:5-7
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water.
WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?


PSALM 33
6By the word of the LORD the heavens were made,

And by the breath of His mouth all their hosts.

7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;

He puts the depths in storehouses.

8Let all the earth fear the LORD;

Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.

9For He spoke, and it was done;

He commanded, and it stood firm.

WHO SPOKE in v 9? THE WORD--- see verse 6.


Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.


Again- WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
John 1:1,3 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
ALL THINGS WERE MADE through Him and without HIM NOTHING was made that was made.

WHO is the Word of God?

 

[David in NJ]

Oh the jw and their watchtower and greek redone bible
is more than just a hiccup . As i am sure you well know that my friend .
Its a death trap meant to keep the c hidren trapped in the d arkness and far f rom THE LI GHT
by which they could have SEEN their e rror .
For what i say to one i say to all .
yes the reminder must be brought again , and even to those who know it
IT is but good refreshment to the so ul .
SO here it is for all to see .
IT is written , and no prophet, king , not moses or any other would lay cliam to this title .
I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . TELL THEM that I AM has sent thee .
Now where do we hear these words and from WHOM do we hear them . WELL FROM GOD of course .
Now do we hear such a title and such words being spoken by another IN THE NEW TESTAMENT .
WHY YES we surely do .
AND i turned to see the voice that had spoken to me
and i seen one like unto the SON OF MAN
and What did THIS one say to john .
Fear not , I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . And some time earlier while THIS ONE
was on earth had said , BEFORE abraham was .................I AM . and they PICKED UP STONES ....................
Actually its really something when you t hink about it .
here they were ready to STONE the very one who had created all and accused him of blasphemy
against GOD , when it was THEY WHO BLASPHEMED GOD . something else aint it . what a mystery this is
That GOD was manifested in the flesh
seen of angels , preached unto the world , recieved back up into Glory .
For in the beginning was THE WORD and the Word was with GOD and the Word was GOD . what a mystery indeed .
The FATHER revealed IN THE SON ,WHO MANIFESTED THE NAME OF GOD .

AMEN, for the CLEAR Evidence is Overwhelming

 

[Keiw]

Jesus is God the Son so when the bible says God said something, it could have been him or another of the Trinity.

No son is his Father.

 

[David in NJ]

Just the opposite. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

The Father is the mind of Jesus. Just as the born again have a new mind, the mind of Jesus. 1 Cor. 2:16

The mind of the Father speaks the Word.

Now you are on another subject = which is True, yet though these two subjects of thought seem to be saying the same, they are not.

The FATHER has His own Mind, CHRIST has His own Mind, the HOLY SPIRIT has His own Mind.

Elohim = FATHER/WORD-SON/HOLY SPIRIT are of One MIND since THEY are ECHAD

Can you SEE the difference???

 

[Keiw]

The Son is called God so it is in the bible.




God the Son has a God, God the Father.

God doesn't have a God= 100% fact of life.

 

[Keiw]

It says he created all things so he cannot have created himself because you have to exist before creating.

The one we call Jesus was not created, talking about him before incarnation.

The better translation:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He was not the first to be born so this is about importance not order of literal birth.


Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And being before all things means he was not creating himself with all the rest of creation.

Bible reality= Many things are disguised Bible reality-HE( Gen 1:27-Prov 8:27-28) created all things by myself( Isaiah 44:24)
The word by = error--Through belongs.
Firstborn of all creation( creatures) = created.

 

[David in NJ]

Well said!

This is the most illogical thing ever. 1 is the loneliest number. Haven't you ever heard that song?

Yes, heard it many times = great song!!!

Have done/obeyed the Will of the FATHER???

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the Name which is Above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
A.) of those in heaven,
B.) and of those on earth,
C.)and of those under the earth,
D.) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Have you obeyed and given GOD the GLORY???

 

[Keiw]

The one who sent him= Father, is THE ONLY TRUE GOD = "I and My FATHER are ONE"

I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the Glory I had with You before the world existed.

so that all may honor the Son just as/same as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

"I and My FATHER are ONE"

One in purpose, They are not one in being.

 

[David in NJ]

One in purpose, They are not one in being.

Remember = If we deny God's Word we LIE

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Deut 5:7 - "You shall have no other gods before ME"

 

[Keiw]

Remember = If we deny God's Word we LIE

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Deut 5:7 - "You shall have no other gods before ME"

In Greek the Word is not called God at John 1:1, he is called god. Catholicism put God to fit false council teachings. You best relook.
Deut 5:7=YHVH(Jehovah)

 

[Wick Stick]

I do not believe the verse is speaking about Satan being the God of this world. Satan is called the Prince of the world (not a God and not a King) but not the God of it. Certainly much of the world worships Satan in one form or another but in order to know whom is being spoken of we simply have to use the context:



2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Some will say it's a little "g" on god so that means its not God. Not so. There are no capitals vs. small letters in the manuscripts. The small g is purely the translators opinion.


So who was it that "blinded the minds of them which believe not"?

It was God.

Usually where the New Testament speaks about God, it just says 'ὁ θεὸς' (the God). It is strange in this verse that it qualifies it as "the god of this world." Why specify if God is the God of everything?

I think... the translation of the word 'world' is confusing. The New Testament translates three Greek words as 'world:' κόσμος, γῆ, and αἰών. Cosmos refers the order of things in the universe. Ge refers to the physical dirt beneath our feet. But it's the third word, Aion, that is used in this verse. It usually refers to a period of time, and is sometimes called an 'age' or an 'era.'

I think the meaning of the verse would be clearer if it was translated like...

4:4 ...that God, in this era, has blinded the minds of the unbelieving...