WOMEN AREN'T TO SPEAK IN TONGUES IN THE CHURCH

[Fred J]

Sometimes i wonder, are you a 'troll' who suddenly appear and disappear without a proper dialog, and do i need to and get nowhere?

 

[Fred J]

If you are a male and bron again, you still never be the head of the church, only Jesus Christ.
Understand?you always be the church part.

Lawlessness understand!

 

[soberxp]

Sometimes i wonder, are you a 'troll' who suddenly appear and disappear without a proper dialog, and do i need to and get nowhere?

If you are a male and bron again, you still never be the head of the church, only Jesus Christ.
Understand?you always be the church part.

No one is the head of church,only Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the men in the verse what Paul told.and church is the women.

Wife need to silence，only Jesus Christ teaches us.

 

[Fred J]

1 Corinthians 11:

3. But I would have you know, that the Head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the HEAD of Christ is GOD.

 

[soberxp]

1 Corinthians 11:

3. But I would have you know, that the Head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the HEAD of Christ is GOD.

Is Jesus woman?

 

[Fred J]

If you are a male and bron again, you still never be the head of the church, only Jesus Christ.
Understand?you always be the church part.

No one is the head of church,only Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the men in the verse what Paul told.and church is the women.

Wife need to silence，only Jesus Christ teaches us.

Apparently women like you have accepted another jesus and spirit, 'shortsighted' and in 'lawlessness'. doing your own church.

 

[Fred J]

1 Corinthians 11:

3. But I would have you know, that the Head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the HEAD of Christ is GOD.

Made it even bigger for you, please do not 'heart-hardened' and continue in 'lawlessness', as a result, soon become 'shipwrecked'.

This is the 'order' of the Kingdom of GOD and not mine, thank you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Moreover something one never witnessed nor encountered in his life, definitely is a 'sign' for him, that this people are worshiping GOD uniquely than others.

So, are you saying that with regards to speaking in tongues, the sign, itself, to an unbeliever is that tongues are good? So Its a positive sign?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I pray dear Lady in the Lord (as well as an elderly sister to this elderly brother. ; that I may share with you what God revealed to me, for I did not hear it from a THEOLOGIAN at all. But maybe it is in your book which I have not read. That too would be so....GOD!!!

First off, your question above contains a word which is not in the verse you quoted, but it is very important in relation to what was revealed to me. You said "unbelievers". but the verse says "them that believe not". That is the biblical question God asked me when I was reading the next verse of your text.

1CO 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The Lord asked me; 'Those who "believe not" or "do believe", IN WHAT?'
"I don't know Lord......silence.....I guess I'll read on."

23* If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

That was when God revealed what I now believe; "THE WHOLE CHURCH" of Corinth was a 100% tongue talking church in which ALL could SPEAK WITH TONGUES. They were a church planted by Paul and we know from scripture Paul asked some believers first thing;

"Did you receivelambano/take from) the holy ghost (power not the person of the Holy Spirit) when you first believed?

Now the above verse from the DIRT translation; "Did you take holy power from the Holy Spirit that gives it, after you first believed for the new birth of your spirit into the holy spirit of Christ in you?"

The DIRT translation above is something that never even happens in a Pentecostal or Charismatic church today. Paul didn't even ask if they got water baptized first. That' how important this spiritual gift is. Making it number two on the Satan's list, for his devils to rob you of.

But let's deal more spiritually than any usually do. In verse 23 we have 3 groups of people.
100% tongue talking church, or 'SPIRITUALLY GIFTED' then we have "UNBELIEVERS" and those who are "UNLEARNED".
The Greek word for "UNBELIEVERS" is apistos which means without Christian faith or heathens
The Greek word for "UNLEARNED" is idiotes: a private person, i.e. (by impl.) an ignoramus (comp. "idiot")

Those are the three choices from Paul.

I'm defend women and call out the idiotes.

Do you know what type of sign is being referred to about tongues to an unbeliever/unlearned?

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, it was in utter madness and lawlessness, and 'the context' is using the gifts lawfully and in charity, and read carefully, who and what is 'prohibited' as well.

Women want to go back to the time of immature wild, madness, lawlessness era, and have not learned a lesson and decree implemented by the Kingdom.

Even want to 'modify' it even better than they did, thinking it'll please GOD, be that 'idiots'.

Our time is done explaining over and over again to 'heart-hardened' souls, originated from teaching for doctrine the commandments of men denomination.

I'm done FREDDY......Unteachable spirit IMO.

 

[Hillsage]

Do you know what type of sign is being referred to about tongues to an unbeliever/unlearned?

Here are my notes for verse 21;
Paul employs the Greek word heteroglossis (Gr 2084) to refer to how the invading Assyrians were using "other tongues" to give orders to the confused Jews.

Here are my notes for verse 22;
Hillsage; Don't worry about turning "unbelievers" OFF as fundy's say. They're already OFF to begin with.

BIBLICIST below; was the USERNAME of a poster from a former CHRISTIAN FORUM I was on years ago. These are his comments on the verse. But I am going to assume you have something 'else' that you want to share.

"Biblicist
To quote the illustrious Anthony C. Thiselton in his monumental commentary on First Corinthians with regard to 1Cor 14:22, "This is acknowledged to be one of the most difficult verses in our epistle" which is of no surprise as it tends to confuse both Continuists and cessationists alike.

As a prelude to my reply, up until 1988 many commentators had given up with trying to find a workable solution to this passage where some were so frustrated that they even presumed that it was an insertion by a later copyist; but as I have mentioned on many occasions on this forum, the solution to this historically problematic text was solved by Wayne Grudem in his book Prophecy way back in 1998 (pages 171-182); as I purchased my copy only a year later then I have thankfully understood this passage for almost 30 years.

To summarise the following material by Grudem we can read 1Cor 14:22 as;
Tongues, then, are a [negative] sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is [positive] for believers, not for unbelievers.?
_______________
Wayne Grudem Prophecy pp.176-77"

Your turn @1stCenturyLady

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here are my notes for verse 21;
Paul employs the Greek word heteroglossis (Gr 2084) to refer to how the invading Assyrians were using "other tongues" to give orders to the confused Jews.

Here are my notes for verse 22;
Hillsage; Don't worry about turning "unbelievers" OFF as fundy's say. They're already OFF to begin with.

BIBLICIST below; was the USERNAME of a poster from a former CHRISTIAN FORUM I was on years ago. These are his comments on the verse. But I am going to assume you have something 'else' that you want to share.

"Biblicist
To quote the illustrious Anthony C. Thiselton in his monumental commentary on First Corinthians with regard to 1Cor 14:22, "This is acknowledged to be one of the most difficult verses in our epistle" which is of no surprise as it tends to confuse both Continuists and cessationists alike.

As a prelude to my reply, up until 1988 many commentators had given up with trying to find a workable solution to this passage where some were so frustrated that they even presumed that it was an insertion by a later copyist; but as I have mentioned on many occasions on this forum, the solution to this historically problematic text was solved by Wayne Grudem in his book Prophecy way back in 1998 (pages 171-182); as I purchased my copy only a year later then I have thankfully understood this passage for almost 30 years.

To summarise the following material by Grudem we can read 1Cor 14:22 as;
Tongues, then, are a [negative] sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is [positive] for believers, not for unbelievers.?
_______________
Wayne Grudem Prophecy pp.176-77"

Your turn @1stCenturyLady

Yes, tongues is a NEGATIVE sign to unbelievers - it confirm them in their unbelief. And to cessationists as well, the unlearned.

Did you know that in JB Phillips' translation of 1 Cor. 14:22 he actually switched them. He said, tongues therefore is a sign to believers, not unbelievers. Then with an asterisk * told why. He too thought it was a copyist error, but assured the reader verse 22 was the only verse he meddled with in his translation. And he also added the word "sign" with regards to prophecy in the same verse, when the original doesn't. In fact, his translation was what I was reading through (I liked to collect different translations to read through) when I came across that usually troublesome verse and it didn't stop me in my tracks as usual. Reading his corrupted version was what made me take that verse off the shelf once and for all where it had stayed for 30 years, and ask the Holy Spirit to teach me everything I didn't know about tongues. And He did for the next 7 years! That's how long it took to write that small book. God's on His own time-table.

What I found also that no one refers to anymore, if ever, is the parallel between the sign of tongues and the sign of Jesus! Now do you want to read my book? LOL.

 

[soberxp]

Yes, tongues is a NEGATIVE sign to unbelievers - it confirm them in their unbelief. And to cessationists as well, the unlearned.

Can those who don't believe understand tongues?

Can unbelievers understand tongues?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Can those who don't believe understand tongues?

Can unbelievers understand tongues?

Absolutely not. 1 Corinthians 14:2.

So how then on the Day of Pentecost did those devout Jews who stopped to listen understand their own languages?

I asked God the same question 25 years ago, and He answered...

 

[talons]

Luke 12:16-20

This parable teaches us that GOD anytime may require our life as believers too, and have we repented from our 'lawlessness' today?

Have you ?
I will leave you to answer your own question as I leave this thread and keep this scripture in mind I will post .

Philippians 2:12 Context​

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

 

[talons]

So how then on the Day of Pentecost did those devout Jews who stopped to listen understand their own languages?

Because it was their language they spoke this is why they understood . A gift of tongues not a gift of ears .


6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Because it was their language they spoke this is why they understood . A gift of tongues not a gift of ears .


6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Aren't you curious what God spoke to me? Did Acts 2 contradict 1 Cor. 14:2? It didn't. God confirms His word; He doesn't countradict it. Anyone who thinks so is not a believer in God, but in themselves. Good luck with that!

Read Acts 2:8 about hearing by itself and open your mind. If their speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, what other gifts can the Holy Spirit use to draw people to God using a gift of ears?

 

[Brakelite]

FYI - IF IT IS NOT BIBLICAL 2TIMOTHY3:16&17, AND SINCE HE'S THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER, THEN IT IS FROM THE 'OTHERSIDE'!

'The god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers'

'Even satan disguises himself as an angel of Light and it's not surprising that his servants disguises themselves as servants of righteousness.'

Apostle Paul (even the other Apostles are aware), is referring to the 'false brethren' of his time, also claim to represent the Kingdom of GOD as well.

Even Jesus said, 'After Me there'll come false messiahs, false teachers and false prophets.'

Also it is written, 'Get thee behind Me, satan: thou art an offense unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of GOD, but those that be of men'

Together, 'But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of Heaven against me: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.'

'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for yea compass the sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.'

Finally, 'Quench not the Spirit.'

To these we've been discipled with after becoming born again, also together acts as 'a reminder' and 'a stir up of our memory', in our journey working out our salvation in fear and trembling.

To what advantage would it be to Satan to translate the gospel into several different dialects that people may be saved?

 

[talons]

Aren't you curious what God spoke to me?

Yes , you can share that with me .

Did Acts 2 contradict 1 Cor. 14:2? It didn't.

Of course there is no contradiction .

I Acts2 the great multitude of people heard the Apostles speaking under the power of the Holy Spirt , the Apostles were speaking the native tongue of the multitude of people there ,

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

In 1Cor14:2 it is talking about a tongue being spoken that no one knows there in the congregation where it is being spoken . If there is not a person there that speaks the language OR someone there with the gift of tongues interpretation the tongue speaker should keep quite .
When I pray in tongues I am speaking mysteries to God because I do not know what I speak but God does .

1 Corinthians 14:2 Context​

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes , you can share that with me .

As I told you I read 1 Corinthians 14:2 and thought as you do, so HOW could man understand. (And it wasn't saying there ARE people that understand, they are just not there as you are thinking per below, and as I've heard others reason and teach in the past. Before I went to bed one night, I prayed and asked God how could the devout Jews who were passing by understand them. Early the next morning as I was just becoming conscious from sleeping, I heard God speak "Interpretation" One word, but always when He speaks one word, there will be with it supernatural understanding. I'll continue below the next one.

Of course there is no contradiction .

I Acts2 the great multitude of people heard the Apostles speaking under the power of the Holy Spirt , the Apostles were speaking the native tongue of the multitude of people there ,

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

In 1Cor14:2 it is talking about a tongue being spoken that no one knows there in the congregation where it is being spoken . If there is not a person there that speaks the language OR someone there with the gift of tongues interpretation the tongue speaker should keep quite .
When I pray in tongues I am speaking mysteries to God because I do not know what I speak but God does .

1 Corinthians 14:2 Context​

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

The interpretation of tongues is the same as one of the types of prophecy - supernatural understanding.

Acts 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Lets say on the Day of Pentecost there was a German, a Frenchman, and a Russian who all could each communicate with each other in Hebrew or Armaic, but also knew their native tongue which is what they each heard all of the disciples speaking as a choir. It was not a cacophony of 120 different languages all spoken at the same time. Each heard only their language.

So the German HEARD German. The Frenchman HEARD French. And the Russian HEARD Russian. That is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works, even today. I've seen it. In Arizona were I lived some teenagers circled around one of their unsaved friends they brought to church to pray for her. They were all praying in tongues, but what she HEARD was English. God drew her to Him through the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Another thing about speaking in tongues. There are two separate gifts of speaking in tongues. Mark 16:17 is without interpretation as it is not needed. The tongues are prayer or praise TO GOD for EACH INDIVIDUAL . But in 1 Corinthians 12, this separate gift of tongues MUST have interpretation as 1 Corinthians 14:6 tells what these messages FROM GOD are saying to us. That second one is an OFFICE FOR THE PROFIT OF ALL. that is not given to everyone who is saved like Mark 16 is. That is why in 1 Corinthians 12:30 it tells us not everyone has that office, and NOT that not everyone has been given the gift of tongues for prayer, and the unlearned teach, not realizing there are two gifts, only one being a sign.