PAUL PREACHED CHRIST ACCORDING TO WHICH SCRIPTURES?

[Doug]

[1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV] "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
The scriptures Paul is referring to isn't John 3:16, it isn't Isiah 53, they are the scriptures he was given by Christ found in his epistles written before 1 Corinthians.


[Galatians 2:20 KJV] "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
[Galatians 3:13 KJV] "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"
[Galatians 1:4 KJV] "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:"
[1 Thessalonians 5:10 KJV] "Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.".........These are the scriptures that say Christ died for our sins. What Paul wrote was said to be scripture according to Peter..........[2 Peter 3:15 KJV] "And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
[2 Peter 3:16 KJV] "As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.".........If what Paul wrote is said to be scripture then Paul could reference those scriptures in Galatians and 1 Thessalonians as being the scriptures he was referring to in 1 Corinthians 15:3 where he says Christ died according to the scriptures.

[1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV] "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
There are scriptures that speak of his death, but none are found that he rose the third day except those found in the four gospels.

[Matthew 16:21 KJV] "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."
[Matthew 17:23 KJV] "And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry."
[Matthew 20:19 KJV] "And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again."
[Mark 9:31 KJV] "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day."
[Mark 10:34 KJV] "And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again."..........These are some of the verses that say Christ rose the third day. Paul may have had access to these scriptures as there is debate in regard to dating the four gospels. There is evidence Mark may have been written around late 40Ad. Just something to consider.

 

[keithr]

[1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV] "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
The scriptures Paul is referring to isn't John 3:16, it isn't Isiah 53, they are the scriptures he was given by Christ found in his epistles written before 1 Corinthians.


[Galatians 2:20 KJV] "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
[Galatians 3:13 KJV] "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"
[Galatians 1:4 KJV] "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:"
[1 Thessalonians 5:10 KJV] "Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.".........These are the scriptures that say Christ died for our sins. What Paul wrote was said to be scripture according to Peter..........[2 Peter 3:15 KJV] "And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
[2 Peter 3:16 KJV] "As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.".........If what Paul wrote is said to be scripture then Paul could reference those scriptures in Galatians and 1 Thessalonians as being the scriptures he was referring to in 1 Corinthians 15:3 where he says Christ died according to the scriptures.

[1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV] "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
There are scriptures that speak of his death, but none are found that he rose the third day except those found in the four gospels.

[Matthew 16:21 KJV] "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."
[Matthew 17:23 KJV] "And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry."
[Matthew 20:19 KJV] "And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again."
[Mark 9:31 KJV] "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day."
[Mark 10:34 KJV] "And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again."..........These are some of the verses that say Christ rose the third day. Paul may have had access to these scriptures as there is debate in regard to dating the four gospels. There is evidence Mark may have been written around late 40Ad. Just something to consider.

I see no reason to disagree with Google AI Overview, which says:

The New Testament books were written between approximately 48–120 AD, not in their canonical order. Generally, Paul’s letters were written first (48–60s AD), followed by the Gospels (65–90s AD), with letters like Peter and John, and Revelation appearing last.​

Estimated Chronological Order of the New Testament​

• Early Letters (c. 48–55 AD): Galatians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Romans
• Prison Letters (c. 55–62 AD): Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, Ephesians
• Early Gospels & Acts (c. 60–70s AD): Mark (often considered the first), Matthew, Luke, Acts
• Pastoral/General Epistles (c. 60s–80s AD): James, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 & 2 Peter, Jude, Hebrews
• Johannine Literature & Revelation (c. 85–100+ AD): John, 1, 2, & 3 John, Revelation

Note: Dates are approximate, with scholars debating whether certain letters were written earlier (conservative) or later (critical).​

Key Takeaways​

• Paul's Letters: The earliest writings are generally acknowledged to be Paul's letters, with 1 Thessalonians or Galatians potentially being first.
• The Gospels: Mark is typically considered the earliest Gospel (late 60s), followed by Matthew and Luke (70-90s), and John (90s).
• Final Books: 2 Peter, 2-3 John, and Revelation are often placed near or after the turn of the 1st century.

So your quotes from 2 Peter, Matthew, Mark cannot be what Paul was referring to.

In 1 Corinthians 15:3, Paul refers to the Old Testament scriptures (the Hebrew Bible), specifically Messianic prophecies and patterns predicting that the Christ would suffer and die for sins. Key passages often cited include Isaiah 53 (the suffering servant), Psalm 22, and other foreshadowings of a substitutionary death.​

• Key Prophetic Scriptures: The primary reference is to prophetic passages foretelling the Messiah's vicarious suffering, notably Isaiah 53:5-6, which describes him being pierced for transgressions and bearing sins.
• Context of "Scriptures": Since 1 Corinthians was written before the New Testament Gospels, "Scriptures" refers to the Old Testament/Septuagint, which the early church interpreted as foretelling Jesus's death and resurrection.
• Specific References: Other texts often associated with this fulfillment include Daniel 9:26 (Messiah cut off), Psalm 22, and types like the Passover lamb or the sacrifice in Genesis.
• "Third Day" Reference: While the death is clearly in the prophets, the resurrection "on the third day" is understood as being fulfilled through the general narrative of Old Testament salvation history, including Jonah's sign (Jonah 1:17) and perhaps Hosea 6:2.

Paul emphasizes that Jesus's death was not an accident but a planned fulfillment of the entire Hebrew scriptural narrative.​

 

[Doug]

I see no reason to disagree with Google AI Overview, which says:

The New Testament books were written between approximately 48–120 AD, not in their canonical order. Generally, Paul’s letters were written first (48–60s AD), followed by the Gospels (65–90s AD), with letters like Peter and John, and Revelation appearing last.Estimated Chronological Order of the New Testament

It's a matter of debate
I read an article that proposed early dating
It was just something to consider
Paul said Christ died for our sins was according to scripture but nowhere is this said in the old testament scriptures
Paul said he would rise the third day according to scripture, but nowhere is it found in the old testament he would rise the third day. His resurrection was in there but nothing about the third day

 

[keithr]

Paul said Christ died for our sins was according to scripture but nowhere is this said in the old testament scriptures

Again you didn't read my post carefully/studiously enough - how about Isaiah 53:5-6 WEB?

(5) But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed.​

(6) All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.​

And Isaiah 53:11-12 WEB

(11) After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied. My righteous servant will justify many by the knowledge of himself; and he will bear their iniquities.​

(12) Therefore I will give him a portion with the great, and he will divide the plunder with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was counted with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.​

Paul said he would rise the third day according to scripture, but nowhere is it found in the old testament he would rise the third day. His resurrection was in there but nothing about the third day

Jonah 1:17 WEB

(17) Yahweh prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.​

Jonah 2:6 WEB

(6) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever: yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God.​

(10) Then Yahweh spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah on the dry land.​

Matthew 12:38-40 WEB

(38) Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”​

(39) But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.​

(40) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

Albert Barnes' Notes on verse 39 says:

There shall no sign be given to it ... - They sought some direct miracle “from heavens.” Jesus replied that no “such” miracle should be given. He did not mean to say that he would work no more miracles, or give no more evidence that he was the Christ, but he would give “no such miracle” as they required. “He would give one that ought to be as satisfactory evidence to them that he was from God, as the miraculous preservation of Jonah was to the Ninevites that he was divinely commissioned.” As Jonah was preserved three days by miracle and then restored alive, so he would be raised from the dead after three days. As on the ground of this preservation the Ninevites believed Jonah and repented, so, on the ground of his resurrection, the people of an adulterous and wicked generation ought to repent, and believe that he was from God. “The sign of the prophet Jonas” means the “sign” or “evidence” which was given to the people of Nineveh that he was from God - to wit, that he had been miraculously preserved, and was therefore divinely commissioned.​

 

[Doug]

Again you didn't read my post carefully/studiously enough - how about Isaiah 53:5-6 WEB?

Nowhere outside of Paul's scripture can we read that Christ died for our sins. Our sins means Gentiles. Isiah 53 is restricted to Israel only as seen in these verses....................[Isaiah 53:5 KJV] "But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.".................OUR transgressions and iniquities is Israel's as seen in the following verse

[Isaiah 53:8 KJV] "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."..............MY PEOPLE is only Israel...............[Exodus 3:10 KJV] "Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt."

[Isaiah 53:11 KJV] "He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."..............Justify MANY not all. the many are believing Israel

 

[Doug]

(40) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

This may be picky but the Bible is very precise in wording. This verse doesn't say he rose the third day and in fact doesnt say he will rise at all. We know what it means but we can only go by what it says nothing more or less

 

[JohnDB]

The old Testament...specifically the Septuagint.

 

[Doug]

The old Testament...specifically the Septuagint.

I dont know your point
Care to elaborate?

 

[JohnDB]

I dont know your point
Care to elaborate?

The New Testament wasn't written....Paul was in process writing it to the various churches.

Matthew was busy translating the first gospel into Greek. But likely hadn't finished even the Hebrew version when Paul was writing.

So Paul quoted a lot of various Old Testament scriptures from Prophesy, History, Laws, and Psalms/Tehillam. But since his Greek speaking audience couldn't read or write Hebrew or Aramaic....he, like ALL the New Testament writers, used the Septuagint translation for allusions and sometimes direct quotes for all their points.
Most modern Bibles don't show or comment on these allusions or quotes because of the many variations of the Septuagint.

The Septuagint was a crappy copy of the Old Testament scriptures with poor word choices all through it and zero standardization among the 70 Jews who translated it. Then because it wasn't ever considered to be worthy just about anyone with fairly good eyesight and able to copy words would make further copies of the scriptures.

It got to be so bad that Jerome had to start over in 300+ AD to make a new standardized Bible in Greek and Early Latin (for John's contributions) from all the many manuscripts that he could obtain.

Since Paul nor anyone had a standardized Septuagint they did what they could. And modern translators are reluctant to say for certainty that they were alluding to or quoting the Septuagint translation of particular verses. But if you are familiar with any of the Septuagint translations....it's extremely obvious the scriptures the New Testament writers were alluding to.

Paul used several variants of the Septuagint for his quotes. Matthew stuck to the Hebrew Tenakh but he was writing to the Jews originally and used the Septuagint as a translation guide.

Luke also used two variants of the Septuagint that we are fairly certain of but there's a discussion as to whether Paul used these and others or just the two. (From local sources?)

The whole of the Old Testament points to Jesus and his sacrifice....as well as the morality required to please God.

Paul was a Rabbi in his own right (albeit a low order one but gaining ground rapidly until his conversion) He obviously knew the whole Tenakh (Old Testament) aa well as Midrash (treatises and discussions on Old Testament) and especially the Sifre (law explained by Schmeekah Rabbi...the only order of rabbi authorized to explain the Law)

That should explain it....
Any questions?

 

[DJT_47]

He preached Christ according to the gospel

 

[Doug]

The New Testament wasn't written....Paul was in process writing it to the various churches.

Matthew was busy translating the first gospel into Greek. But likely hadn't finished even the Hebrew version when Paul was writing.

So Paul quoted a lot of various Old Testament scriptures from Prophesy, History, Laws, and Psalms/Tehillam. But since his Greek speaking audience couldn't read or write Hebrew or Aramaic....he, like ALL the New Testament writers, used the Septuagint translation for allusions and sometimes direct quotes for all their points.
Most modern Bibles don't show or comment on these allusions or quotes because of the many variations of the Septuagint.

The Septuagint was a crappy copy of the Old Testament scriptures with poor word choices all through it and zero standardization among the 70 Jews who translated it. Then because it wasn't ever considered to be worthy just about anyone with fairly good eyesight and able to copy words would make further copies of the scriptures.

It got to be so bad that Jerome had to start over in 300+ AD to make a new standardized Bible in Greek and Early Latin (for John's contributions) from all the many manuscripts that he could obtain.

Since Paul nor anyone had a standardized Septuagint they did what they could. And modern translators are reluctant to say for certainty that they were alluding to or quoting the Septuagint translation of particular verses. But if you are familiar with any of the Septuagint translations....it's extremely obvious the scriptures the New Testament writers were alluding to.

Paul used several variants of the Septuagint for his quotes. Matthew stuck to the Hebrew Tenakh but he was writing to the Jews originally and used the Septuagint as a translation guide.

Luke also used two variants of the Septuagint that we are fairly certain of but there's a discussion as to whether Paul used these and others or just the two. (From local sources?)

The whole of the Old Testament points to Jesus and his sacrifice....as well as the morality required to please God.

Paul was a Rabbi in his own right (albeit a low order one but gaining ground rapidly until his conversion) He obviously knew the whole Tenakh (Old Testament) aa well as Midrash (treatises and discussions on Old Testament) and especially the Sifre (law explained by Schmeekah Rabbi...the only order of rabbi authorized to explain the Law)

That should explain it....
Any questions?

Very informative
The only thing I would say is that Paul was given revelations by Christ, he says he received nothing from man which would include other scriptures..................
[Galatians 1:11 KJV] "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man."
[Galatians 1:12 KJV] "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.".....................Now Paul may have had the gospels but Christ could have revealed which other scriptures including the old testament were pertinent and Christ expounded on those scriptures

 

[JohnDB]

Very informative
The only thing I would say is that Paul was given revelations by Christ, he says he received nothing from man which would include other scriptures..................
[Galatians 1:11 KJV] "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man."
[Galatians 1:12 KJV] "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.".....................Now Paul may have had the gospels but Christ could have revealed which other scriptures including the old testament were pertinent and Christ expounded on those scriptures

I will remind you of the "Road to Damascus" incident.....

That's what Paul was discussing.