St. SteVen said:
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
How so?
What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Sin From adam is Flowing in our blood of mankind.Its only that during Process of salvation,God seperate our soul and Flesh as done through circumcision which was the physical sign given to abraham.Once circumcised,what create dirt is removed and you remain clean before God
I already explained that. You are not a sinner just because you are born. There is no original sin in this meaning of the word.
What do you make of this?
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
What if the Genesis account is figurative and not literal?
Also, if the Genesis account is literal, why does the Fall not make all humans sinful at birth?
One of the Paul's "hard to understand" places. We have only speculations what he meant.
In any case, if this is the only place that worries you, then Christianity is not in danger, is it? Bible has plenty of places that nobody is certain about.
In the worst case, Paul really literally believed in literal Genesis and Genesis is not literal and therefore Paul was mistaken in these two verses. It does not mean that Christianity is finished just because Paul was not perfect.
Christianity is not a domino where one piece knocks down all other pieces. Christianity has the basics of faith (ecumenical creeds), then another layer of doctrine and another layer of doctrine... but for Christianity to "work", only the core doctrines are needed.
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Seems to me that it could still work even as allegory for Adam.
The salvation of humankind hangs on the results of the acts of two men.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Sure, allegorical, representative/priestly view may work. Hard to say, we would need Paul to tell us, we can only guess what he meant. He is also switching between "all" and "many" for no apparent reason.
This is a nice article about the Augustinian error regarding the original sin, btw: Augustine's mistake about original sin - Gentle Wisdom
I take it as written.
And the "all" and "many" issue is solved if you notice it says "THE many". (= all)
Obviously, "the many were made sinners", means all.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I think you're looking at the wrong story from Genesis.
If Genesis 1 isn't literal, then... God still made the world. The Book of Job has that story.
If Adam & Eve weren't literal and there is no Original Sin... we're all still sinners. Paul tells us "all have sinned."
But, if Abraham's covenant with God is not literal, then we are ALL lost. Salvation comes to both Israel and Gentiles through that covenant. We NEED Abraham to be real.
My focus was on the Fall of humankind.
If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty, then the Atonement was of none effect.
However, it seems that can still work if we accept the Fall as allegory.
I have the same problem with anyone who refuse to accept ALL the literal events in the Bible.
What else in the Bible don't they believe ?
If science can't explain the events then so what ?
Simply accept, that in some way beyond our understanding these events occurred.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I basically ignore science. I'm interested in competing interpretations of Scripture, though.
If you can give me a different interpretation of what-is-written that I haven't heard, I'm all ears.
It is true, though? There is no ecumenical creed saying "And we believe in Abraham and in the Abramic covenant".
Interestingly, there is only one instance in the New Testament saying "if this did not happen, we are not saved":
"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
The things we are mentioning here in this thread seem to be just a specific context, views, in which the work of Christ has been placed into, culturally and theologically. Without them, it would be a bit painful to re-stabilize our theological positions, but the core Christianity would survive and found another context (like John in his prologue used the Hellenistic Logos context). God would still exist, He would still have the Son etc.
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Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I think so, or I wouldn't have said it.
God's covenant with Abraham was for a Son. God fulfilled the covenant by giving him Isaac, but also overfulfilled the covenant by giving Jesus as The Son, and making Abraham a father of nations.
Would we, though? As I see it, that happened in part because that's what Abraham asked for.
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