Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[NayborBear]

I sure do wish more persons would understand what defines a Christian.

To me? The way a person prays, and to be a bit more specific? How a person ends their prayer.
When I hear a person end their prayer "In your name I pray?" (Amen)
There's this voice that always pops into my head saying: "What am I!" "Chopped liver?"
Far as I'm concerned? A person ending their prayer like that? Is not a Christian.
Because they are not praying to He who sits on His Throne in Heaven!
They are praying to this one:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he AS God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he IS God.

This is not good!

Now, should a person end their prayer: "In the name of Jesus I pray, or ask this." (Amen)
To me? This person is acknowledging the Father AND His Son!
And is a Christian! Or, at least, on the right track!

 

[GodsGrace]

To me? The way a person prays, and to be a bit more specific? How a person ends their prayer.
When I hear a person end their prayer "In your name I pray?" (Amen)
There's this voice that always pops into my head saying: "What am I!" "Chopped liver?"
Far as I'm concerned? A person ending their prayer like that? Is not a Christian.
Because they are not praying to He who sits on His Throne in Heaven!
They are praying to this one:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he AS God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he IS God.

This is not good!

Now, should a person end their prayer: "In the name of Jesus I pray, or ask this." (Amen)
To me? This person is acknowledging the Father AND His Son!
And is a Christian! Or, at least, on the right track!

NayborBear
You've fought me tooth and nail throughout this thread.

Did I mention something about prayer?

The above post of yours is slightly contradictory, but I won't get into it.

Do you believe Jesus is God? --- which requires belief in the Trinity, unless there are two Gods.
Do you believe He was born of a virgin?
Do you believe He died and resurrected?
Do you believe the bible is our authority?
Do you believe that faith saves?
Do you believe in the resurrection of our body?


If you answer yes to each and every one,,,,
Then you are a member of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

If not, you are not a member of the Christian Religion.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Do you believe Jesus is God? --- which requires belief in the Trinity, unless there are two Gods.
Do you believe He was born of a virgin?
Do you believe He died and resurrected?
Do you believe the bible is our authority?
Do you believe that faith saves?
Do you believe in the resurrection of our body?

If you answer yes to each and every one,,,,
Then you are a member of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

I agree with all of the above except the first, but I also suggest that the Apostolic Faith that defines Christianity contains more essential items including the correct understanding of the Atonement, and a correct understanding of the Kingdom of God. The following gives a summary of the Gospel and anything short of this is outside true Christianity.
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

A true Christian is also after this example of the Samaritans is a person who then allows this affectionate belief of the Gospel to motivate them to be baptised in water in identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus. In other words Adult Baptism, not sprinkling of infants.

Any other claim to be "Christian" is a false label.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

I agree with all of the above except the first,

Trevor
The FIRST
JESUS IS GOD

Is the number one tenet of the Christian RELIGION.

You don't believe Jesus is God?
You can't be called Christian.

but I also suggest that the Apostolic Faith that defines Christianity contains more essential items including the correct understanding of the Atonement, and a correct understanding of the Kingdom of God.

NO.
It does NOT.

You're talking about theology of the Christian RELIGION.

I'm talking about what DEFINES the Christian RELIGION.

A slight difference.

The following gives a summary of the Gospel and anything short of this is outside true Christianity.
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

A true Christian is also after this example of the Samaritans is a person who then allows this affectionate belief of the Gospel to motivate them to be baptised in water in identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus. In other words Adult Baptism, not sprinkling of infants.

Any other claim to be "Christian" is a false label.

Kind regards
Trevor

YOU don't get to define what CHRISTIAN means.
The definition has already happened when YOU weren't around yet.
About, like, 2 thousand years ago.

This is not debatable.
Doctrine is debatable but this is NOT what this thread is about.

Apparently, Christianity has moved SO FAR from its roots that some don't even UNDERSTAND what this thread is about.


This might help.
It's a little more scholarly in language than I could ever hope for:



Scope: A doctrine is a comprehensive set of teachings or a established system of beliefs (e.g., Monroe Doctrine, religious doctrine). A tenet is a single principle or pillar within that system.



Usage: "Tenet" is often used to describe specific, deeply held principles within a larger framework (e.g., "a tenet of democracy").



Formality: Doctrine often implies an officially adopted, codified, or authoritative body of teaching. Tenets are truths, often in religious or ideological contexts, that are held and maintained.


Example: If Christianity is the doctrine, the belief in the Trinity could be considered a tenet of that faith. "




"A CHRISTIAN" is someone who has sincerely surrendered ownership of their life to Jesus Christ as a faith response to His Gospel. Period. A newer Christian can therefore theoretically be wrong about practically every doctrine - to be later corrected by the Holy Spirit as the Christian grows in knowledge and faith.



By contrast, Christianity (the belief system) is defined by adherence to certain, fundamental, doctrines; namely, the Eternal Deity of Christ, the Divine Authority of Christian Scripture, the Virgin Birth of Christ, the Vicarious sacrifice of Christ on a Roman Cross, and the Bodily Resurrection of Christ. These are the basic tenets of the Christian Religion.



Anyone can label themselves in any manner they choose. But that approach to words has no logical utility. We use words to communicate ideas. Using words without established definitions makes communication (and the search for truth) inefficient. doctrines that separate Christianity from other beliefs and ideologies. A ministry group is not "CHRISTIAN" if it fails to ascribe to these doctrines. This is not a matter of judgement, but of basic definition.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

You're talking about theology of the Christian RELIGION.
I'm talking about what DEFINES the Christian RELIGION.
A slight difference.

I am talking about the Bible definition of the word "Christian".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

I am talking about the Bible definition of the word "Christian".

Kind regards
Trevor

You're an intelligent guy Trevor.
Much more intelligent than I'll ever be.

Please don't make the silly statement, as many do, that IT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE.

As you surely know...history continued on after Revelation.
Definitely after Acts.

Those early Christians,,,the ones that were taught by the Apostles,,
got together one night in a warm house,,,had some wine and kind of decided what would define Christianity.
They thought that since they believed JESUS IS GOD...that must surely be something worht fighting for...

and fight they did.
Keeping the heresy of Arianism out of the church.
Modulism too, and some others.

They had to come up with the Trinity or the result would be two Gods!
Yikes!
They, being Jewish, believed there is only ONE GOD !

Then they had to explain how Jesus seemed to be human but was divine at the same time.
But this did take more than one warm evening, of course.

And, who knows, maybe that wine had something to do with these weird ideas??

Sorry Trevor - I can't take this anymore....
CHRISTIANITY MEANS SOMETHING.

And YOU don't get to make the definition.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

I am talking about the Bible definition of the word "Christian".

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor,
I was going to ask you what the bible states a Christian is.
The whole point is that it has already been defined and the definition cannot change.

We'd get into an endless debate about whether or not Jesus is God.
The point is that this SHOULD NOT be debated between two "Christians".

The fact is that you like being known as a Christian because you believe most of the stuff/doctrines the NT teaches.
This is great!
So jump the fence and come on over and throw in the towel...or the sponge - as the Italians say.

 

[talons]

You didn't reply to the question at hand !

Are JWs Christian?
Are Mormons Christian?

Why or why not?

You quoted my answer , sorry it was not to your liking .

1. Can Christianity, as a religion, be defined?

The New Testament , it's in there .

2. Was it defined and when?

3. By who?

1Peter4 and ...

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

"A CHRISTIAN" is someone who has sincerely surrendered ownership of their life to Jesus Christ as a faith response to His Gospel. Period. A newer Christian can therefore theoretically be wrong about practically every doctrine - to be later corrected by the Holy Spirit as the Christian grows in knowledge and faith.



By contrast, Christianity (the belief system) is defined by adherence to certain, fundamental, doctrines; namely, the Eternal Deity of Christ, the Divine Authority of Christian Scripture, the Virgin Birth of Christ, the Vicarious sacrifice of Christ on a Roman Cross, and the Bodily Resurrection of Christ.

So by what is said here could it be that JWs and Mormons are Christians that do not participate in the Christianity belief system ? Plain reading of these two statements .

A CHRISTIAN MUST believe that Jesus is God.

This is the NUMBER ONE TENET of the Christian religion.

"Christian Religion " that phrase is not in the bible .

NUMBER ONE TENET of a Christian should be ...
Jesus the Son of God , the prophesied Messiah was crucified for OUR sins and rose on the third day .

No reply necessary , the difference is we were raised in church differently .

 

[GodsGrace]

You quoted my answer , sorry it was not to your liking .

The New Testament , it's in there .

So why doesn't every "Christian" believe that Jesus is God?
Why do some state that they are christian and it ends up under their avatar and then they argue
that Jesus is NOT God?

And JWs are not Christian because they do not accept the no. 1 tenet of Christianity..
JESUS IS GOD.

1Peter4 and ...

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

They were called Christians.
Good.
But what does it mean??

So by what is said here could it be that JWs and Mormons are Christians that do not participate in the Christianity belief system ? Plain reading of these two statements .

NO!

By contrast, Christianity (the belief system) is defined by adherence to certain, fundamental, doctrines; namely, the Eternal Deity of Christ, the Divine Authority of Christian Scripture, the Virgin Birth of Christ, the Vicarious sacrifice of Christ on a Roman Cross, and the Bodily Resurrection of Christ.

"Christian Religion " that phrase is not in the bible .

Trinity is not in the bible.
Hypostatic Union is not in the bible.
The CONCEPTS are there and they have been defined.

NUMBER ONE TENET of a Christian should be ...
Jesus the Son of God , the prophesied Messiah was crucified for OUR sins and rose on the third day .

But that is NOT what it is.
Those that believe that Jesus is not God DO believe that He died for their sins.

So what's the difference?

No reply necessary , the difference is we were raised in church differently .

But the whole point is that it doesn't matter what church you go to !

Know why I had to leave this thread for days?
Because of the frustration that many do not even understand what this thread is about.

It's OK if you don't want to discuss.
You're not the first one....

I just wish this would be understood.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

As you surely know...history continued on after Revelation.
Definitely after Acts.

Are you attempting to make allowances for the Apostasy? The Gospel and true Christianity was fully established by Jesus and the Apostles.

We both have different backgrounds, environments and experiences. One such interaction that I was involved in was at work. In response to the twin towers attack in 2001, a very sincere Baptist approached a number of workmates, and suggested two things. We should attend a specific prayer meeting concerning the current event of the terror attack and secondly we should have a lunch time Bible Class. I declined the first, but accepted the second and it was arranged for every second Monday. Most were too busy playing cards, but the meeting comprised of the Baptist, a Pentecostal with a good sense of humour who used to belong to the same Baptist Church but now believed in tongues and healing and the prosperity doctrine and he was now qualified to be a part time Pastor, another member of the same Pentecostal fellowship who used to be a SDA, another Pentecostal of a different faction, the son in law of their meeting's Pastor, a Roman Catholic and myself.

These meetings were reasonably satisfactory, except on one occasion towards the end of the class the Trinity was raised and I voiced my disagreement. The meetings continued for a few years before my retirement in 2004. The Catholic did not last long as the class was Bible based and he felt very uncomfortable. He mentioned something about Seven Sacraments but did not elaborate. If anything he was a very devout Catholic, very close to his local priest and was chosen to carry the cross on one of the annual enactments of the various stages of the crucifixion. My only interaction with him after he decided not to attend was to bring in my copy of the Catholic Bible "The Jerusalem Bible". Some time before I was impressed by the translation in this version of Peter's threefold confession in John 21. I mentioned this to him, but he was not interested in engaging, stating that he did not have a Bible, but he did state that his mother did have one of these particular Bibles as he recognised the blue cover.

Yes, much has happened after The Acts and the Book of Revelation, yes after the purity of the Gospel was preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Are you attempting to make allowances for the Apostasy? The Gospel and true Christianity was fully established by Jesus and the Apostles.

We both have different backgrounds, environments and experiences.

You know my background and experiences?

How could you be sure they're different?

One such interaction that I was involved in was at work. In response to the twin towers attack in 2001, a very sincere Baptist approached a number of workmates, and suggested two things. We should attend a specific prayer meeting concerning the current event of the terror attack and secondly we should have a lunch time Bible Class. I declined the first, but accepted the second and it was arranged for every second Monday. Most were too busy playing cards, but the meeting comprised of the Baptist, a Pentecostal with a good sense of humour who used to belong to the same Baptist Church but now believed in tongues and healing and the prosperity doctrine and he was now qualified to be a part time Pastor, another member of the same Pentecostal fellowship who used to be a SDA, another Pentecostal of a different faction, the son in law of their meeting's Pastor, a Roman Catholic and myself.

Sounds like fun.

These meetings were reasonably satisfactory, except on one occasion towards the end of the class the Trinity was raised and I voiced my disagreement. The meetings continued for a few years before my retirement in 2004. The Catholic did not last long as the class was Bible based and he felt very uncomfortable. He mentioned something about Seven Sacraments but did not elaborate. If anything he was a very devout Catholic, very close to his local priest and was chosen to carry the cross on one of the annual enactments of the various stages of the crucifixion.

They do love this stuff.
I wish it would end...but the people won't have it.

I know about the 7 sacraments.
Would be happy to discuss...
but why?

Marriage is not a sacrament in Protestantism,,,
but it should be.

The two are not making a PROMISE...
they are taking an OATH.

Whenever God is present, and He is at a marriage,,,
it is always an oath.

Maybe if this were understood there would be less divorces....
not that Catholics understand it any better.

They have pre-cana courses here.
Some couple, every so often, will actually state that if it doesn't work out,
they could always get divorced.

Guess what?
They WILL eventually get divorced.

Communion is too soon and some priests would like to change it...
but Rome won't hear of it and the reasons are terrible.

Baptism...I believe baptism is real and the Holy Spirit is receive.
So why infants? Long story. too late here.

Confirmation....I don't care for it.


Enough.

My only interaction with him after he decided not to attend was to bring in my copy of the Catholic Bible "The Jerusalem Bible". Some time before I was impressed by the translation in this version of Peter's threefold confession in John 21. I mentioned this to him, but he was not interested in engaging, stating that he did not have a Bible, but he did state that his mother did have one of these particular Bibles as he recognised the blue cover.

LOL
Catholics don't read the bible...those that know any of it are few and far between.
The Jerusalem bible is the same as any other bible. I have quite a few bibles that are "catholic" in my possession. One change has been made that is significant, and wrong, but I won't get into it here.

Curios as to John 21..but too tired to look it up.
The loosing and bindingJ?
The keys?
maybe.

Yes, much has happened after The Acts and the Book of Revelation, yes after the purity of the Gospel was preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

Kind regards
Trevor

The purity went on for a long time.
Much death to difondere our faith, for which we should be grateful...
but alas, those that believe as you do seem not to care.

Difondere
Can't think of the English word.
I grew up in the states BTW and raised my family there.

How could I not think of a word?
Must be the time.
I hope.

 

[Adventageous]

There is no ecumenical creed saying we must keep the 10 commandments, what to do with Sabbath etc. So, this is not what defines Christianity.

But in the early church writings and in the New Testament, the teaching of the first church is quite obvious. The first church did not kept Sabbath in any meaningful way, except for maybe some few Jewish Christians churches.

Jesus said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

He was directly citing the OT, where He also said right in the Ten Commandments:

​

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.​

What manmade 'creeds' say is / are irrelevant to what Jesus said, and irrelevant to what the OT-NT says.

The Early Church writings, are the NT, since Paul wrote 14 epistles thereof, and Peter wrote 2, John wrote 5 books, James/Jacob and Jude wrote theirs and Luke wrote 2, and Matthew & Mark wrote theirs.

I agree that the "teaching of the first church is quite obvious" since I (you, anyone) can read about it in the NT itself:

Mat. 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1​

Mar. 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1​

Luk. 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56​

Jhn. 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31​

Act. 1:2, 4:24 (citing Exo. 20:11), 13:14,27,42,44, 14:15 (citing Exo. 20:11), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4​

Jhn. 12:1 (six days before the Passover, at Lazarus’ house)​

Heb. 3:11, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; [Heb. 4:9 “rest” Greek: sabbatismos, literal sabbath-keeping]​

Rev. 1:10 [kuriake hemera, “the Lord’s Day” [the 7th Day Sabbath], see Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11; Deu. 5:12:15; Isa. 58:13, 66:23; Mat. 12:8; Mar. 2:27,28; Luk. 6:5; Rev. 10:6, 14:7,12]​

Rev. 10:6 [see also Exo. 20:11, 31:17; Neh. 9:6; Psa. 146:6; Act. 4:24, 14:15, Rev. 14:7,12];​

Rev. 14:7,12 [see also Exo. 20:11, 31:17; Neh. 9:6; Psa. 146:6; Act. 4:24, 14:15; Rev. 14:7,12].​

Thus:

Jesus: (Luk. 4:16-19; Col. 1:16; Mar. 2:27; 1 Cor. 15:44-46)​

Disciples: (Act. 1:2, (4:24), 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Heb. 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11;​

Rev. 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7)​

with us today: (Heb. 4:9; Rev. 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7; Jhn. 14:15; Exo. 20:6,8-11)​

On into eternity: (Isa. 66:23)​

Test: (1 Cor. 10:11; Exo. 16:1-36; Rev. 14:6-12)​

I also document it here (Chapter 14, pages 186-361), in detail, in original language where available as well, along with actual documented Church History (which I did note, you did not cite at all): - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I think you should read those references again, and see all of the "Gentiles", who are keeping sabbath, and as scripture said:

​

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.​

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,​

Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:​

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.​

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:​

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.​

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.​

Notice, the Gentiles were repenting from violation of God's eternal laws, and keeping the sabbath of the LORD, holy, just as Prophecy said they would; Isa. 56:1,8; Jhn. 10:16; Isa. 56:2-7; &c.

Again, see all of the historical references I provide in the book as well. You are mistaken about the historical continuity of sabbath keeping among the Christian (Jews & Gentiles) communities.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

You know my background and experiences?
How could you be sure they're different?

No, I am only responding to what you have stated in your Posts, and I am not sure of what you believe on many topics.

Curios as to John 21..but too tired to look it up.

When you have time look up John 21:15-19, the threefold confession of Peter. The Jerusalem Bible is clearer than the KJV as it distinguishes between the two different Greek words for love, agape and phileo, and this clarifies what both Jesus and Peter are saying.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Adventageous]

The 10 commandments are practiced, in one way or another, as a teaching of every religion.

Incorrect. They set up a law in opposition to, across from, God's law. As for instance, the Islamic faith does not keep the 4th commandment (Exo. 20:8-11 KJB), and I may cite that for you as needful. They also violate the other commandments as well in other ways. Islam in Surah 9 is all about murdering / killing, which is a violation of the 6th commandment (Exo. 20:13 KJB). In Islam, they can have up to 4 main wives, and all the concubines they can capture (limitless) so long as they can 'provide equally' for them, and equally can mean give each nothing, and they are all equal), which is a violation of the 7th commandment (Exo. 20:14 KJB). If you (or any) need documentation on that I can provide it.
The same goes for other non-Christian religions. Within Christian claiming / professing religions, there are those like the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches, LDS (Mormons), and some others that claim to keep God's commandments, but like Islam, substitute commandments or remove commandments for their own man-made law, set up in the place of God's laws. They have, essentially, self-righteousness, apart from God's law -

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.​

 

[HealthyShape]

Jesus said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

He was directly citing the OT, where He also said right in the Ten Commandments:

​

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.​

What manmade 'creeds' say is / are irrelevant to what Jesus said, and irrelevant to what the OT-NT says.

The Early Church writings, are the NT, since Paul wrote 14 epistles thereof, and Peter wrote 2, John wrote 5 books, James/Jacob and Jude wrote theirs and Luke wrote 2, and Matthew & Mark wrote theirs.

I agree that the "teaching of the first church is quite obvious" since I (you, anyone) can read about it in the NT itself:

Mat. 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1​

Mar. 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1​

Luk. 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56​

Jhn. 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31​

Act. 1:2, 4:24 (citing Exo. 20:11), 13:14,27,42,44, 14:15 (citing Exo. 20:11), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4​

Jhn. 12:1 (six days before the Passover, at Lazarus’ house)​

Heb. 3:11, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; [Heb. 4:9 “rest” Greek: sabbatismos, literal sabbath-keeping]​

Rev. 1:10 [kuriake hemera, “the Lord’s Day” [the 7th Day Sabbath], see Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11; Deu. 5:12:15; Isa. 58:13, 66:23; Mat. 12:8; Mar. 2:27,28; Luk. 6:5; Rev. 10:6, 14:7,12]​

Rev. 10:6 [see also Exo. 20:11, 31:17; Neh. 9:6; Psa. 146:6; Act. 4:24, 14:15, Rev. 14:7,12];​

Rev. 14:7,12 [see also Exo. 20:11, 31:17; Neh. 9:6; Psa. 146:6; Act. 4:24, 14:15; Rev. 14:7,12].​

Thus:

Jesus: (Luk. 4:16-19; Col. 1:16; Mar. 2:27; 1 Cor. 15:44-46)​

Disciples: (Act. 1:2, (4:24), 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Heb. 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11;​

Rev. 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7)​

with us today: (Heb. 4:9; Rev. 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7; Jhn. 14:15; Exo. 20:6,8-11)​

On into eternity: (Isa. 66:23)​

Test: (1 Cor. 10:11; Exo. 16:1-36; Rev. 14:6-12)​

I also document it here (Chapter 14, pages 186-361), in detail, in original language where available as well, along with actual documented Church History (which I did note, you did not cite at all): - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I think you should read those references again, and see all of the "Gentiles", who are keeping sabbath, and as scripture said:

​

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.​

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,​

Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:​

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.​

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:​

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.​

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.​

Notice, the Gentiles were repenting from violation of God's eternal laws, and keeping the sabbath of the LORD, holy, just as Prophecy said they would; Isa. 56:1,8; Jhn. 10:16; Isa. 56:2-7; &c.

Again, see all of the historical references I provide in the book as well. You are mistaken about the historical continuity of sabbath keeping among the Christian (Jews & Gentiles) communities.

This is not the mainstream, orthodox Christianity. You may write a book about it, but others did too. Historians, theologians etc.

 

[HealthyShape]

Good response!
The 10 commandments are practiced, in one way or another, as a teaching of every religion.

It is a teaching and not a tenet of the Christian religion.

I sure do wish more persons would understand what defines a Christian.

I do not think that the commandment about the day of rest is practiced in any other religion than in Judaism, though. It is not practiced even in all Christian denominations. Sunday keeping is kind of a thing in some, but the Sabbath keeping is basically nonexistent in the mainstream Christianity.

And of course, the first commandment is not practiced in polytheistic religions.

 

[talons]

So why doesn't every "Christian" believe that Jesus is God?
Why do some state that they are christian and it ends up under their avatar and then they argue
that Jesus is NOT God?

And JWs are not Christian because they do not accept the no. 1 tenet of Christianity..
JESUS IS GOD.

No matter what you think about the "Jesus is God " point a Christian should treat and worship Jesus the same as God the Father . Jesus as the Son , the Messiah and soon coming King has all authority given to him by the Father so from our point of view They are on a equal footing .
If I have doubts of someone's Christianity I ask them how they would worship if they stood before God the Father and Jesus separately . There should be no difference in how they worship .

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

No, I am only responding to what you have stated in your Posts, and I am not sure of what you believe on many topics.

When you have time look up John 21:15-19, the threefold confession of Peter. The Jerusalem Bible is clearer than the KJV as it distinguishes between the two different Greek words for love, agape and phileo, and this clarifies what both Jesus and Peter are saying.

Kind regards
Trevor

Done.
Yes...two different words for Love: Agape and philo.
Godly love and brotherly love.

Also, two different words for SHEEP:

John 21:15.........lamb
John 21:16........sheep
John 21:17........sheep

 

[GodsGrace]

Incorrect. They set up a law in opposition to, across from, God's law. As for instance, the Islamic faith does not keep the 4th commandment (Exo. 20:8-11 KJB), and I may cite that for you as needful. They also violate the other commandments as well in other ways. Islam in Surah 9 is all about murdering / killing, which is a violation of the 6th commandment (Exo. 20:13 KJB). In Islam, they can have up to 4 main wives, and all the concubines they can capture (limitless) so long as they can 'provide equally' for them, and equally can mean give each nothing, and they are all equal), which is a violation of the 7th commandment (Exo. 20:14 KJB). If you (or any) need documentation on that I can provide it.
The same goes for other non-Christian religions. Within Christian claiming / professing religions, there are those like the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches, LDS (Mormons), and some others that claim to keep God's commandments, but like Islam, substitute commandments or remove commandments for their own man-made law, set up in the place of God's laws. They have, essentially, self-righteousness, apart from God's law -

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.​

I REALLY would like to know which man-made laws Catholics must keep, alnd which commandments they have removed.
I reject placing the Catholic faith and the Orthodox faith alongside with the LDS.

But as to the above,,,,it is common knowledge that most of the civilized world agrees with the moral values of the 10 commandments.

Most believe murder is wrong,
most believe stealing is wrong (Muslims get their hands cut off)
most believe in monogomy...

etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is not the mainstream, orthodox Christianity. You may write a book about it, but others did too. Historians, theologians etc.

I'd like to add that orthodox Christianity must be traced back to the early church.
Sabbath worship cannot.

The Didache,,,,teachings on how to practice the Christian religion - written about 90AD by new studies (it had been believed to be written up to about 120AD) states that THE LORD'S DAY was for worshipping.

The Lord's Day is used two ways in the NT:
To describe when the Lord returns...THE DAY OF THE LORD
Sunday...the resurrection....THE LORD'S DAY

Acts 20:7
7On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

The first day of the week, at the time, was Sunday.



@Adventageous