“Your Father is the Devil”: A Radical Reading of John 8:44 in Light of Religious History
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JLB
Well-Known Member
He saw the Angel of the LORD.
The Angel of the LORD is the LORD and God.
This is the Son of God in whom all the fullness of the Godhead dwells.
I don't know. It's quite mysterious. What does it even mean to see the " face of God"? Moses saw God's "back parts", however.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Then God provided salvation to the gentiles and they did the same thing Israel did which is ongoing today and right now the vast majority of churches and preachers are teaching doctrines of devils.
Uh no. The angel of the Lord is the Lord's personal angel.
Just like the rest of us, when Jesus was born in to a flesh body a guardian angel was assigned to Him:
Matthew 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the
face of my Father which is in heaven.
The Lord or people have never been angels and will never be angels.
God created man in His Image not angels.
Angels are nothing more than spiritual servants and the Body of Christ will sit in judgement over angels (1 Corinthians 6:3)
In fact the Body of Christ has been raised up to to sit In Christ in Heavenly places far above ALL principalities powers might and dominion not only in this world but in that which is to come (Ephesians 1:21-23)
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
JLB
Well-Known Member
Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6
- And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
Moses was looking at with the Angel of the LORD, who had appeared to Him. There was no one else there.
- And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Who does the scripture say that Moses was afraid to look upon?
What are angels?
I'm saying that Melchizedek was a spiritual / physical manifestation of Jesus Christ
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
It was the Lord's personal angel that the Lord sent to speak to Moses in behalf of the Lord.
The angel of the Lord was the Lord's personal representative
God's Word tell us plainly that it wasn't the Lord but was "the angel OF the Lord"
To claim the Lord manifests Himself as an angel is sacrilegious and disrespectful of the Creator
Apparently that is not for you to know.
God's Word has all sort of information about the angels but one must dig in and study
Those not doing so aren't able to know or understand anything about angels.
Actually he was not, he was a type of "Christ" but was not actually Jesus
The claim that Melchizedek was a manifestation of Jesus Christ That's is the opinion of some religious scholars most of whom are not even born again.
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To be more specific in my language, yes, definitely a type or picture of Jesus Christ. He was acting in the Spirit of the Lord.
JLB
Well-Known Member
‘Who does the scripture say Moses was afraid to look upon?
Who appeared to Moses?
And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
JLB
Well-Known Member
Again here is my question.
Can you answer my question?
What are angels?
Let me help you.
Angels are sons of God.
- for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36
If angels are called sons of God, then what would the Angel of the LORD be?
The Son of God.
Very interesting. Angels are quite mysterious already, then you make this assertion.
I've always understood fallen angels to be demonic spirits, with the ability to inhabit humans. It strengthens my belief that they inhabit a particular group of people that have rejected Jesus Christ right from the beginning.
Mostly all of unsaved humanity takes a neutral position on God. In other words, in their soul existence they do not have an obligation or agenda to denigrate our Lord and destroy His creation. Even though we are all sinners, we can be led in a Godly way and be ok with that.
But unfortunately the demonic entity in question has control over the world because they get their power and guidance from Satan. They have passed their power structure on from generation to generation, until the tribulation period when the world will be forced to worship their " messiah". Just a heads up for y'all.
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Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Jesus' personal angel.
Angels are not created in the Image of God as mankind is.
Mankind shall sit in judgement over the angels so those IN Christ are higher than angels.
So the "sons of God" phrase is a reference to angels being spiritual servants, slaves if you will of the Lord.
There is no salvation for angels as there is for mankind so it's obvious that God places far far more value on man than He does on angels.
Not sure about you, but I'm in Christ so I'm above the angels being IN CHRIST and all.
(yeah so that's above God's angels as well as above fallen angels)
Ephesians 1:17-23
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
soberxp
Well-Known Member
This statement from the Bible may not be directed at us, but I believe we should put ourselves in that position to examine the issue and consider whether we are not.
Because before we realize our mistakes, we might indeed all be like that—the father of all humanity is the devil, in a sense, since what we obey is either God or things that are disobeying God.It is what is called a rebellious.
JLB
Well-Known Member
‘The Angel of the LORD is referred to as God.
Which of these two statements are stated in Exodus 3:6
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6
- Moses was afraid to look upon Jesus’ personal Angel.
- Moses was afraid to look upon God.
JLB
Well-Known Member
Ok. Thanks for sharing.
Who do you believe the Angel of the LORD is in the Old Testament.
Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6
Amen.
They are sons of God.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
So you think a burning bush is God?
But not actual Sons like those in the Body of Christ who are created in God's Image and born again.
2 different classes of being here.
Man is like God, angels are not.
Angels are just the help, man is God's actual Sons created in His image.
Angels serve the Lord by serving man at God's direction
JLB
Well-Known Member
Jesus says those who obtain the resurrection from the dead are EQUAL to the angels and are sons of God.
- for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36
What does equal mean to you?
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
That's simply speaking of man in his glorified body being untouchable by death which is how God's angels are right now not being limited to a physical body like we are currently.
Man kind is above angels. Jesus went to the Cross for man, but He provided no salvation for angels.
We are obviously valuable to to the Father where angels are expendable.
So notice in Ephesians 1:17-23 where man is far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Man shall sit in judgement over the angels so we are clearly superior to them
We are superior to them right now in God's eyes, we just don't have our glorified bodies yet
1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels?
Ephesians 1:17-23
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
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