Christ the risen Saviour, not potential Saviour!

[brightfame52]

In man's religion, though they speak of Christ as the Saviour, they really mean that He's merely a potential Saviour and that Salvation ultimately rests in the decision or will of the sinner. In other words, its up to the sinner to make Christ a Saviour unto them.

This fallacious reasoning is error and dishonors Christ as the Saviour of His People. for its written that He shall save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, not potentially save them!

When Christ died and afterwards rose from the dead, and ascended to the Right Hand of God, He ascended as a Prince and a Saviour Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The word Saviour means: a savior, deliverer, preserver. None of these denote possibilities, maybes, or potentially, but actuality, He actually ascended as a Saviour, deliverer, a preserver.

Some may appeal to 1 Tim 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


Now does this verse state that Christ is a potential Saviour to all men ? No it doesn't, but it says God is Saviour of all men, especially of those [men] who believe!

Many pervert this scripture so it would be saying that God is a potential Saviour to all men, but an actual Saviour to them that believe. See God cant be technically a Saviour to the unsaved, for thats a contradiction, He is their God in Judgment, but not as a Saviour.

So what does the word specially mean in this verse and how can it be understood without contradicting the fact that God is a actual Saviour and not merely a Saviour, or a Saviour unto unsaved men ?

Its the greek word malista

:especially, chiefly, most of all, above all primary adverb μάλα mála (very); (adverbially) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly:—chiefly, most of all, (e-)specially.

So its a word Paul uses here to denote and clarify who particularly God in Christ is a Saviour to, not all men without exception, but particularly of they which are believers. I fact this verse should dispel the faulty idea of God being the Saviour of unbelievers. Sure, even the saved are unbelievers naturally, however they shall be brought to Faith, because the promise is, the Just/justified shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

Folks Christ rose and ascended as a Prince and a Saviour, not a potential Saviour!

 

[ScottA]

In man's religion, though they speak of Christ as the Saviour, they really mean that He's merely a potential Saviour and that Salvation ultimately rests in the decision or will of the sinner. In other words, its up to the sinner to make Christ a Saviour unto them.

This fallacious reasoning is error and dishonors Christ as the Saviour of His People. for its written that He shall save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, not potentially save them!

When Christ died and afterwards rose from the dead, and ascended to the Right Hand of God, He ascended as a Prince and a Saviour Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The word Saviour means: a savior, deliverer, preserver. None of these denote possibilities, maybes, or potentially, but actuality, He actually ascended as a Saviour, deliverer, a preserver.

Some may appeal to 1 Tim 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


Now does this verse state that Christ is a potential Saviour to all men ? No it doesn't, but it says God is Saviour of all men, especially of those [men] who believe!

Many pervert this scripture so it would be saying that God is a potential Saviour to all men, but an actual Saviour to them that believe. See God cant be technically a Saviour to the unsaved, for thats a contradiction, He is their God in Judgment, but not as a Saviour.

So what does the word specially mean in this verse and how can it be understood without contradicting the fact that God is a actual Saviour and not merely a Saviour, or a Saviour unto unsaved men ?

Its the greek word malista

:especially, chiefly, most of all, above all primary adverb μάλα mála (very); (adverbially) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly:—chiefly, most of all, (e-)specially.

So its a word Paul uses here to denote and clarify who particularly God in Christ is a Saviour to, not all men without exception, but particularly of they which are believers. I fact this verse should dispel the faulty idea of God being the Saviour of unbelievers. Sure, even the saved are unbelievers naturally, however they shall be brought to Faith, because the promise is, the Just/justified shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

Folks Christ rose and ascended as a Prince and a Saviour, not a potential Saviour!

This is a subject that is not unlike predestination.

The issue, and the problem with simply understanding what is true and what is not--comes from God Himself, who made a way for any who are effectively dead, to change (repent) and live again. Which, as you say, is no act of men, but of God alone.

--Even then--can the dead rise up and change their mind? Not at all. But one given the opportunity by God to walk among the dead and see himself as he is and desire to come back into the fold of life in God--God has positioned Himself to change His own mind--even after what would seem to be after-the-fact. "Nothing is impossible with God."

Which is to say, that what we now experience in our own time and order in this world, "was"--even "before the foundation of the world"--before the world began! And this--this life is the revealing of that "man of sin" before the Judgement.

 

[brightfame52]

This is a subject that is not unlike predestination.

The issue, and the problem with simply understanding what is true and what is not--comes from God Himself, who made a way for any who are effectively dead, to change (repent) and live again. Which, as you say, is no act of men, but of God alone.

--Even then--can the dead rise up and change their mind? Not at all. But one given the opportunity by God to walk among the dead and see himself as he is and desire to come back into the fold of life in God--God has positioned Himself to change His own mind--even after what would seem to be after-the-fact. "Nothing is impossible with God."

Which is to say, that what we now experience in our own time and order in this world, "was"--even "before the foundation of the world"--before the world began! And this--this life is the revealing of that "man of sin" before the Judgement.

Hi, but this sounds confusing. You realize Christ is a Saviour from sin and not a mere potential Saviour

 

[ScottA]

Hi, but this sounds confusing. You realize Christ is a Saviour from sin and not a mere potential Saviour

I do realize--Christ is I am, not I shall be. I was explaining why that is the case. Indeed miracles can seem confusing at first. It is for that very reason that Paul counseled "rightly dividing the word of truth" (between what is heavenly and what is worldly), and "the renewing of your mind."

 

[quietthinker]

I do realize--Christ is I am, not I shall be. I was explaining why that is the case. Indeed miracles can seem confusing at first. It is for that very reason that Paul counseled "rightly dividing the word of truth" (between what is heavenly and what is worldly), and "the renewing of your mind."

What you define as insight Scott, is nothing more than pompous.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ is A Saviour/Redeemer for each and every sinner He died for and was raised again for. When He having finished His work for them, He for them obtained eternal redemption/salvation Heb 9:11-12

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


The word redemption lytrōsis:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
   
   He obtained for them deliverance from the penalty of sin, which is death See Rom 6:23, hence its impossible for them to go into the second death
   
   Rev 20:14
   
   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
   
   
   The second death is for the penalty of sin charged against them.

 

[brightfame52]

I do realize--Christ is I am, not I shall be. I was explaining why that is the case. Indeed miracles can seem confusing at first. It is for that very reason that Paul counseled "rightly dividing the word of truth" (between what is heavenly and what is worldly), and "the renewing of your mind."

You have lost me. Maybe you need to reconsider the op

 

[ScottA]

What you define as insight Scott, is nothing more than pompous.

And you're punk. Woopdydoo.

 

[ScottA]

You have lost me. Maybe you need to reconsider the op

No, it's simple: The dead do not decide, God does.

I lost you on the details. That's fine.

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's simple: The dead do not decide, God does.

I lost you on the details. That's fine.

So we even

 

[GodsGrace]

No, it's simple: The dead do not decide, God does.

I lost you on the details. That's fine.

The OP is reformed/calvinist.
So if you state that God saves us...
he understands it to mean that man has no say in the matter.
Is this what you believe?
I never thought so....

 

[ScottA]

The OP is reformed/calvinist.
So if you state that God saves us...
he understands it to mean that man has no say in the matter.
Is this what you believe?
I never thought so....

No, but rather that God has the final say...after giving us freewill.

But I had gone on to include the details which were in God and thus instantaneous before the foundation of the world (as is the case of the Lamb slain)...and this...this is that half an hour of silence in heaven, and the life we are now in the midst of is after-the-fact, revealing all before the Judgement.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, but rather that God has the final say...after giving us freewill.

Of course God has the final say.
Christians believe God is sovereign...
not only Calvinists.

In fact I'd say the Calvinist God (and He does seem to be a different God than the one others know)
is LESS sovereign due to the fact that He fears giving man free will. This fear shows no sovereignty at all.
How can God be afraid to give man free will?
Is He afraid He will lose all control?!

God will use man's free will to accomplish what He has in mind/planned/whatever we want to call it.

But I had gone on to include the details which were in God and thus instantaneous before the foundation of the world (as is the case of the Lamb slain)...and this...this is that half an hour of silence in heaven, and the life we are now in the midst of is after-the-fact, revealing all before the Judgement.

Yes. With God time does not exist.

Just wanted to know if I understood your position correctly.

 

[brightfame52]

Notice that Christ as risen Saviour gives two blessings in our text Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Christ gives repentance, its a Saviorhood blessing. Its the word metanoia:

a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

As Saviour those Christ saves, He gives, furnishes endues them with repentance, a change of mind He gives them repentance towards God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Genuine repentance towards God is solely in the hands of Christ to give, and so true Gospel Ministers Preach it in His Name Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

An unrepentant sinner [final impenitent] can't possibly have Christ as their Saviour or something went wrong, and would contradict Christs Office as Prince and Saviour

 

[brightfame52]

Again they whom Christ is a Saviour to He gives them with repentance also the remission or forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Which is also Salvation. The knowledge of it is Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

One of Christs ministries as Saviour at the right hand of God the Father is making intercession, which doeth consist of exhibiting the merits of His Blood on behalf of Gods elect, His Church, whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25 His intercession is an integral part of His Saving to the uttermost all for whom He died Heb 7:25. For it [His intercession] secures every needed spiritual blessing needful for all whom He died and intercedes for to be spiritually converted to God. Christs intercession ensures that that the merits of His saving death/blood are applied, made effectual for all for whom He died ! Thats what He being a Saviour is all about !

 

[brightfame52]

In conjunction with Christ being a Saviour of sinners, its written and testified by the Apostle Paul that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , not to potentially save them 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

See thats what a Saviour of sinners does, Saves them from sin !

 

[brightfame52]

He saves them to the uttermost !

Those sinners Christ came to save, He came to save them to the uttermost as He lives to make intercession for them Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

That word uttermost means :

all complete, entire

completely, perfectly, utterly

Yet in mans religion, Hes a potential Saviour.

 

[brightfame52]

To say or even imply that Christ is merely a potential Saviour is a repudiation of the fact that its promised He shall save His People from their sins Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mans religion says Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall potentially save his people from their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Its a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ to teach Salvation is merely a possibility or potential through Him.

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now who are His People here ? Lets look at Jn 17:1-2

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life or save to as many as thou hast given him.

These persons , some of mankind, not all, were given to Jesus Christ by His Father to save or to give eternal life to. These are His People.

Again Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

There is nothing potential about Christ Saving His People from their sins. There's nothing about Jesus Christ merely making Salvation possible. Jesus saved all whom His Father purposed to be saved by Him !