When Might Satan With His Angels Come to This Earth For the Tribulation?

[Taken]

That's just a tradition of men that reveals they don't understand about the TWO SEPARATE DIMENSIONS OF EXISTENCE WRITTEN OF IN GOD'S WORD.

I’m not speaking for other men.

The dimension of the Heavenly is invisible to us who live in this earthly dimension,

I Said the same thing.

UNLESS... GOD allows us to see into the Heavenly, like He did with His prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel, and later with Apostle Paul, and Apostle John.

No Scriptural Support, regarding Others to experience what those you mentioned experienced.

Will say, God gives men on Earth… “signs” we likely will agree….
But Also “glimpses”…(so to Speak) of the Heavens…

In Night Skies we can see, the stars in the distant heavens.

From Earth we can see the Clouds, sky, (lower Heavens).

Men can travel up mountains, be in the midst of the clouds (lower heavens).

Men can fly in airplanes through the clouds of the (lower heavens).

We can Look / See every day … the glimpses of the Lower Heavens. Be in Awe or Ignore without a thought of Gods Creation.

That other dimension exists behind a symbolic 'veil', and it is very real. An angel could be standing right next to you right now, and you wouldn't know it.

Addressed that … is real… and Angels power to Appear in the likeness as a man.

Satan is NOT YET cast out of that Heavenly dimension. He still operates in it, and still accuses us before God's Throne. That is why those Revelation 12:6-17 verses contain prophetic pointers specifically about the END of this world.

Satan was cast down To Earth.
His “estate”….”Was” the same as “holy Angels” mid Heavens …(where we See Stars.)
Satan HAD access to the higher Heavens (3 rd Heaven), but Not after He was Cast to Earth….
Satan HAS power to roam the Earth and Lower Heavens, same as human men.

For simplicity…
1 st Heavens / lowest / nearest Earth Mans Estate.

2 nd Heavens / Mid heavens / holy angels Estate…

3 rd Heaven / High Heavens/ Gods Throne (place of business so to Speak) / Place where Departed Souls of Saints are escorted to, to wait in comfort and peace For Judgement Day.

Heaven ABOVE the “Heaven(S) (1, 2, 3)…
Is Gods “Estate”…
From Where Jesus (Gods Word) WAS (in God) and Sent Forth TO Earth in the Likeness AS a man, to be Seen, Heard, Learn, Share HOW human men could Become “in God Likeness”… and then “returned to There”.

Heaven Above the Heavens IS where “no human man has gone.

When Satan and his angels ARE... finally cast out of the Heavenly dimension, with no more place found for them there like Revelation 12:8 says, then The World Will Literally SEE them in our earthly dimension! They will no longer be invisible working BEHIND THE VEIL.

Satan “FINAL” departure, from the lower Heavens AND face of the Earth, Occurs…
AFTER, Jesus 1,000 year reign…
AFTER Armageddon (Air Battle between holy and fallen angels)

This is why Revelation 13:11-14 shows the "dragon" (Satan) will rain fire down to the earth from heaven IN THE SIGHT OF MEN. It is also why Ezekiel 28:18 shows when God destroys Satan, bringing a fire within him to consume him, THAT WILL HAPPEN ON EARTH IN SIGHT OF ALL THOSE WHO SEE IT, meaning in this earthly dimension by men.

Already addressed, When and Why Fire reign down from Heaven…
It is to Kill the last of any Non Believing Humans.

Angels…(holy or fallen)… ARE SPIRITS… they can Not “DIE”…

Humans (are not Spirits). Humans HAVE a Spirit. A Human that “receives Gods SEED, has his “natural “spirit”, born Again… such Spirit Can ALSO, Never Die.

Fallen Angels… After Armageddon, are sent and confined to the Lake of Fire, never again having the Power to roam the Earth or the Heavens.

THAT... is how those who heed God's written Word will understand how that first supernatural Messiah that is to appear in Jerusalem will be Satan himself playing GOD.

….

Agree, many shall be fooled…

But, but, but…
Fact IS JESUS’ “Return”…IS Not to being Revealed in a Temple claiming Himself God…
^ that is Satan’s gig.

The Lord is First Revealed for all to see…on a cloud…
Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

He can't do that if he is working behind the veil of the invisible Heavenly dimension. He MUST be seen in OUR earthly dimension to do those great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world.

He “Returns”, in the Same “BODY” ( God prepared in the Likeness as A man expressly for All natural men TO see”. )

From that cloud… the Saved are With Him, the mortal (remnant) Believers and unsaved anti-Christs are Divided…. Before Jesus Literally steps / Returns To Earth.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Mixed in with what I already said.

That above verse is pointing directly to Satan appearing on earth IN PLAIN SIGHT, in OUR earthly dimension, NOT INVISIBLE. Those NOT Sealed with God's Seal will WONDER (i.e., marvel) when they SEE Satan and wonder when they behold him.

Satan IS a Spirit. Humans eyes would never SEE Satan as he is “spirit”…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

No Scriptural Support, regarding Others to experience what those you mentioned experienced.

What? No Bible Scripture support for Isaiah, Ezekiel, Apostle Paul, and Apostle John being allowed to see into the Heavenly dimension? You need to read your Bible more. And if you are trying to skate those Biblical facts by claiming I inferred people today experience that, then you are bearing false witness, because I never implied such a thing.

You don't have a clue what God's Word reveals on this matter. So I guess you'll just have to experience Satan's coming deception the hard way, that is, if you are still alive to the future "great tribulation" time. We (Christ's Church) certainly are not going anywhere until Jesus comes AFTER that tribulation.

 

[Taken]

What?

No Bible Scripture support for Isaiah, Ezekiel, Apostle Paul, and Apostle John being allowed to see into the Heavenly dimension?

You need to read your Bible more.

Why? Try again Reading WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID…

No Scriptural Support, regarding Others to experience what those you mentioned experienced.

That is NOT a denial, of Specific men named in Scripture, Experiencing, a peek of the Heavenly Realm!

And if you are trying to skate those Biblical facts …

No denial on my part of the men you Named…

by claiming I inferred people today experience that, then you are bearing false witness, because I never implied such a thing.

So…? I never SAID or IMPLIED… any claim FOR YOU.!

You don't have a clue what God's Word reveals on this matter.

You read a post…and Reveal, your lack of ability to Understand …

You Dictate I should read the Bible more….

Why? Because I acknowledged and did not deny the specific men you mentioned?

What does me Reading the Bible More have to Do With your inability to know I acknowledged and did NOT Deny what you said about the specific men you mentioned?

I added, I found no OTHER men mentioned…

I added… ALL men can experience Gods Heavenly Realm… and listed…WAYS, Other than the experience of the men you listed.

Have you Ever Looked UP seen the Sky, the Clouds?
That is a visual Experience of the The Heavenly Realm.

Have you ever been on a mountain top, in the midst of the clouds?
That is a physical experience of the Heavenly Realm.

Have you ever flown in a plane through, below and above Clouds?
That is a Visual experience in the Heavenly Realm.

Many People HAVE, and HAVE acknowledged the AWE they experienced witnessed ..
And are “the Others”, Never mentioned IN Scripture by NAME.

So because I SPOKE of THAT….
You “somehow”… TWISTED that into a Denial of men Named IN Scripture, didn’t experience the Heavenly Realm?

So I guess

No Need for you to “Guess” or “Attempt to Falsely interpret” what I do and do Not say…

you'll just have to experience Satan's coming deception the hard way, that is, if you are still alive to the future "great tribulation" time.

I am Already Aware Satan Is Present and roaming this Earth.

I am Already Aware;
Jesus IS the Word of God …
Christ IS the Power of God …
Gods Word is Absolute Truth …
Gods Power is Supreme …

I am Already Aware Gods Word / Power…
(Christ Jesus) dwells “IN” me and I “IN” Him.

I am Already Aware, I am Sealed unto The Lord God ALMIGHTY…
AND Excepted FROM…
Having to BE Present ON Earth…
WHEN…
*** The Lamb of Gods Sends Down from Heaven HIS Wrath upon the Earth…
*** The Devil Satan presently On this Earth, is Given Power to Exercise His Wrath upon persons he can locate and Kill.
*** Gods Wrath shall Target all human beings upon the Earth (ignorantly) having MADE a binding Allegiance to Satan.

I am already IN CHRIST and Christ IN me… AND my Bound Allegiance To the Lord God Almighty…EXCEPTS me FROM being ON the Earth, WHEN Tribulations And Wrath Are Sent Down From Heaven.

Where Christ the Lord Jesus “IS” during the Wraths and Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven… expressly Because I am “IN” Christ… So ALSO shall I be Where He “IS”…

Seems You are UNAWARE…of Ancient History…

God sent Wrath and Tribulations Down from Heaven ONCE Before upon this Whole World.

Only 8 (regarding manKIND) were EXCEPTED… and How they were EXCEPTED…IS They were RISEN UP Above the Earth!

Nothing New… Again God shall Wrath and Tribulations Be Sent Down From Heaven…and the EXCEPTED….
Shall be Risen UP Above the Earth!

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Ecc. 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Apparently You are UNAWARE..
The Clouds ARE Above the Earth…. And WHERE the EXCEPTED…. Are Risen To.

And the EXCEPTED…ARE those IN Christ.

And it WAS the The Son of Man who came to Earth…
The Son of Man Who left Earth.
The Son of Man Who Shall Return Above the Earth, (on a Cloud), for ALL Eyes to See Him.

And Those With Him…ARE They In Christ.

And WHEN … He ACTUALLY “Returns TO Earth… all IN Christ Come With Him.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We (Christ's Church) certainly are not going anywhere until Jesus comes AFTER that tribulation.

Well if you be Alive…ON Earth…When God is In Heaven and the Lord in the Clouds…Sending Down Tribulations and Wrath upon this World…. Enjoy the Wrath, Tribulations, earthquakes, plagues, biting creatures, and Satan’s power to seek you…

I Will, as (nothing new) be up in the Clouds Above the Earth… as WAS Noah and His Family, as will be All committed IN Christ, Excepted, Not required to be ON Earth, WHEN Wrath and Tribulations are SENT Down from Heaven.

No Need for you to “Guess” or “Attempt to Falsely interpret” what I do and do Not say…

We (Christ's Church) certainly are not going anywhere until Jesus comes AFTER that tribulation.

Don’t know WHAT Christ or Church you speak Of… being ON the Earth, During Gods Negative, Harsh, Judgments To be Sent from Heaven upon this Whole World and it’s inhabitants.

It is Entirely your choice to Reject Believing Gods Order and Way to Except Those …IN Christ.
And Entirely my choice to Trust and Believe Gods Order and Way of Excepting they IN Christ FROM … Wraths and Tribulations Foretold to Again Be Sent From Heaven Upon this World.

Hey, maybe it is you who should Read the Bible… Trust what it Actually SAYS and avoid trying to reinvent its meaning.

May God bless you to See and Understand,

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

So now BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS, we have the Pre-tribbers coming here pushing their Biblical illiteracy, and their DIRECT DENIAL OF BIBLE SCRIPTURE AS WRITTEN...


Lord Jesus speaking...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

 

[Davy]

I hate to say it, but those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory don't have a chance at Christ's Salvation when He comes AFTER the tribulation to gather His FAITHFUL saints like He said.

But thank God for Christ's future Millennial reign with His elect. That future "thousand years" of Revelation 20 will be a time of teaching those who err today, showing how they failed to heed what Lord Jesus said in His Word, and given the opportunity to repent, or... continue in rebellion against Him, and thus be cast into the future "lake of fire" at the end of that "thousand years."

Those will come up to Lord Jesus when He returns and find He has shut the door on them (Matthew 25 example Jesus gave about the five foolish virgins). Per Matthew 7, they will say, "Lord, Lord, we have preached Thy name in the streets, cast out devils in Thy name, and done many wonderful works in Thy name." But Jesus will say to those, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

What iniquity will they be found guilty of? They will be found having allowed themselves to be deceived by Satan who is coming first as The Antichrist, working great signs and wonders, miracles that would deceive even Christ's very elect, IF it were possible. They will unknowingly bow to the fake Christ that comes first. That will be their iniquity.

 

[Luther7]

Oh.

Wow (chuckle). I’m sorry, but you—and many others—are simply mistaken about Revelation 12. Completely.

The woman in heaven symbolizes the congregation of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, not some future celestial event. The dragon is Satan, a spirit of man who operates through his human messengers. When the Old Testament congregation fell at the Cross, Satan and his Old Testament messengers (i.e.. Pharisees, Scribes, and Jews deceived by them) lost their kingdom representative.

Michael is Jesus Christ, and His “angels” are His human messengers—His believers. This conflict WILL NOT happen in the future; it already took place at the Cross. At that moment, the woman no longer represented the Old Testament congregation, because the kingdom representation was transferred to the New Testament congregation. The congregation fell at the Cross so it means Satan and his messenger no longer rules there. They just lost their place.

This is precisely why Christ has rebuilt the congregation (temple in three days) and gave the kingdom representative to her and she “fled into the wilderness”—the world—where she has been sustained with spiritual manna and commissioned to preach the gospel. Selah.

Yet you continue to insist that Revelation 12 is entirely future with physical war in literal heaven, an interpretation rooted in false premillennial doctrine. That position is not supported by Scripture. It rests instead on misinterpretation and speculation, arising from a lack of spiritual discernment regarding what Revelation 12 is actually teaching.

Oh. I was reading through and your reply took me by surprise. I agree with you. There is so much to discuss but to be consise the same struggle is occuring now as Satan with his modern day Pharisees are completely deceiving those who profess Christ.

Christians today are following after an old covenant religion mixed with Judaism and they come out as "Christian Zionists". The New covenant they follow not. The sufficiency in Jesus Christ they ignore, and instead worship at the feet of the jews. There is only ONE relevant Covenant.

Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews ask for signs, and the Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness

Christians today who "seek after signs" are aiding and abetting the jews and their messiah ( anti- Christ) in coming to power. Now this cannot be changed, for it is in prophecy. However, I would rather know from the Holy Spirit who and what is going on as opposed to being on the other side. And this we must warn others about.

You made the statement which really hits home:
"The woman in heaven symbolizes the congregation of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth,"

Well, the woman in the wilderness has become the whore of Babylon. There is no other way to explain it. The Christian church was deceived into Zionist theology which they took as so called "prophetic promises" ( through the school of Scofield) to a modern day nation of people that have no connection to the Israelites and their old testament religion. And certainly any promise that God made to national Israel (of the old covenant which no longer has any legality) were fulfilled, for He said so in his word:


Joshua 21:43-45 KJV
- 43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[Luther7]

What you said about Satan already cast out is Bible? Hardly. That's a doctrine of men 'loosely' based on what Lord Jesus said in John 12:31...

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV

Did you not notice Lord Jesus included that "Now is the judgment of this world:" along with that casting out?

You obviously have not understood what Lord Jesus said here either about His Judgment of John 12:31...

John 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.
8 And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on Me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to My Father, and ye see Me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
KJV

That is what Christ's cross did with Satan; it sealed the judgement of Satan so that he would be subject to the "lake of fire" after Christ's future return. Today's world has actually not been judged by Christ yet, meaning all men. Don't you recall that every soul must stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ? (2 Cor.5:10)


John 5:22-24
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father Which hath sent Him.

Just when... will all men honour the Son? When Jesus returns in our near future.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV


So tell me, do you think the world was judged by Christ at His cross?

Absolutely.
John 3:18 KJV - 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God knows who are His.

 

[Jay Ross]

Satan and His angel beasts are presently operating on the face of the earth at this moment, but in around 20 years' time, God will Judge the Heavenly Hosts and imprison them in the Bottomless Pit for many days, i.e. for 1,000 years. When the Bottomless Pit is unlocked the Kings of the Earth, who are judged at the same time as the heavenly hosts will come out first, followed by the four facetted Best, the False Prophet, i.e. the Little Horn and Satan who will travel across the full face of the earth before ending up in Jerusalem before they are captured once again and dispatched into the Lake of fire.

So, the Tribulation will end in the near future, and the earth will know peace for 1,000 years after which Satan, His Angel Beasts and the Kings of the earth will once more bring great tribulation upon the face of the earth.

When might this be that they return? From my research, in about 1,020 years from now.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Oh. I was reading through and your reply took me by surprise. I agree with you. There is so much to discuss but to be consise the same struggle is occuring now as Satan with his modern day Pharisees are completely deceiving those who profess Christ.

Indeed. Most modern church pastors have adopted a form of Judaizing—teaching that Christians must align themselves with national Israel as though God’s redemptive plan still centers on a physical nation. In doing so, they echo the same spiritual blindness seen in the Pharisees and scribes of old. Like them, they insist on literal, outward fulfillments—looking for stones, walls, temples, thrones, and earthly cities—while missing the deeper, spiritual reality that these things were always meant to point to.

Christians today are following after an old covenant religion mixed with Judaism and they come out as "Christian Zionists".

Yep!

The New covenant they follow not.

True.

The sufficiency in Jesus Christ they ignore, and instead worship at the feet of the jews. There is only ONE relevant Covenant.

Bingo.

Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews ask for signs, and the Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness

Amen.

Christians today who "seek after signs" are aiding and abetting the jews and their messiah ( anti- Christ) in coming to power. Now this cannot be changed, for it is in prophecy. However, I would rather know from the Holy Spirit who and what is going on as opposed to being on the other side. And this we must warn others about.

Okay.

You made the statement which really hits home:
"The woman in heaven symbolizes the congregation of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth,"

Yes—the kingdom of heaven is being symbolized through a people, a true congregation. At first, this points to Israel, among whom the dragon and his messengers were actively at work, deceiving many of the leaders.


But when the sanctuary was destroyed—ultimately pointing to Christ’s own body, which also represents the congregation—the Old Testament order reached its end with the death of the Messiah, the Prince. Then, in three days, Christ raised it up again, establishing a new and living reality: the New Testament congregation.


In this new covenant, the kingdom is no longer tied to a physical nation but entrusted to a spiritual people. What was taken from unfaithful Israel was given to a people who would bear its fruit. From there, Christ empowered His Church to go into all the world and proclaim the gospel.

This, in essence, is what Revelation 12 is revealing—a shift from the old covenant shadow to the fulfilled reality in Christ and His true congregation.

This is something many people here fail to understand because they remain fixated on 70 AD Jerusalem and the modern nation of Israel. That narrow focus keeps them anchored to outward, historical, and geopolitical interpretations, rather than seeing the broader spiritual fulfillment in Christ and His people. As a result, they miss the transition from the old covenant system—centered on a physical city—to the new covenant reality, where the true kingdom is revealed through a spiritual congregation, not an earthly nation.

Well, the woman in the wilderness has become the whore of Babylon. There is no other way to explain it.

Well, after Pentecost, the woman represents the New Testament congregation—the Church—entrusted with the Great Commission to bring the gospel to the world. She is depicted as being on a divine mission, bearing witness to Christ. That period is considered as faithful testimony as long as she is doing her great commission.


However, once all of God’s elect have been sealed through the testimony of the Two Witnesses (Revelation 7:1–4; 11:7), a turning point comes. The visible church begins to fall into apostasy and desolation, thanks to the rise of false prophets and christs. It is at this stage that she is said to have become a harlot, called Babylon the Great. A mystery that even professed Christians do not understand or realize becasue they are in denial that God would judge His Church - just like what happened with the Jews during the days of Prophet Jeremiah.

At that time, the true elect—those with spiritual discernment—will recognize her condition and obey the call to come out from her, so that they do not partake in her sins or share in her coming judgment.

The Christian church was deceived into Zionist theology which they took as so called "prophetic promises" ( through the school of Scofield) to a modern day nation of people that have no connection to the Israelites and their old testament religion. And certainly any promise that God made to national Israel (of the old covenant which no longer has any legality) were fulfilled, for He said so in his word:


Joshua 21:43-45 KJV
- 43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

It is sad, indeed. But I’m grateful you found my posts helpful—that’s exactly why I’ve left them here as a public record: so that anyone who has spiritual ears to hear may come across them and understand the truth.

 

[Davy]

Absolutely.
John 3:18 KJV - 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God knows who are His.

If you believe flesh-born people have been judged to perish already, then you don't believe in The GOD of The Bible.

Find me JUST ONE FLESH-BORN SOUL that has already been judged and sentenced to perish at the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Even Judas Iscariot has NOT been judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" yet.

And when Lord Jesus said John 3:18, He was referring to those WHO ARE IN DANGER OF PERISHING because of unbelief. Being in danger is different than actually STANDING BEFORE CHRIST'S THRONE AND BEING JUDGED AND SENTENCED TO PERISH, which ONLY happens AFTER His future "thousand years" reign per Revelation 20.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you believe flesh-born people have been judged to perish already, then you don't believe in The GOD of The Bible.

Find me JUST ONE FLESH-BORN SOUL that has already been judged and sentenced to perish at the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Even Judas Iscariot has NOT been judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" yet.

And when Lord Jesus said John 3:18, He was referring to those WHO ARE IN DANGER OF PERISHING because of unbelief. Being in danger is different than actually STANDING BEFORE CHRIST'S THRONE AND BEING JUDGED AND SENTENCED TO PERISH, which ONLY happens AFTER His future "thousand years" reign per Revelation 20.

Who taught you this doctrine of demons? Or did you come up with it yourself? The eternal destinies of everyone who has died is already determined. That's why the souls and spirits of dead people either go to heaven or hell after they die. If their eternal destinies weren't already determined they would all go to some neutral place. Scripture (Hebrews 9:27) says everyone is appointed to die once and then they look forward to judgment. No second chances will be given. Judas Iscariot had his chance already and now looks forward to judgment day.

 

[Davy]

Who taught you this doctrine of demons? Or did you come up with it yourself?

You are being Biblically illiterate, because you have listened to MEN instead of our Heavenly Father in His Word.

As of this very moment, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" at the end of Revelation 20. NO flesh-born man has been judged and sentenced to perish in that "lake of fire" yet...

THIS following Bible Scripture is WHEN flesh-born wicked are judged to perish and cast into the future "lake of fire"...

Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

The above is what is written, and all Christians should be following it, as that was given by Lord Jesus Christ to His Church through His servant John.

And it looks like you might also be confused... about the difference between the abode of hell and the lake of fire. The abode of hell will go into... the lake of fire, IF you bother to read that Bible Scripture.

Oh yeah, looks like I need to include the following Scripture too...

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
KJV

That's Apostle Paul speaking above.

WHEN... do we appear before the judgment seat of Christ, folks? Or when do the wicked appear before the judgment seat of Christ and get cast into the "lake of fire"?

 

[Davy]

Partly true as Daniel 9:26b suggests that the war in heaven has been ongoing since the Temple was destroyed and the Israelites either killed or sold into slavery into the four corners of the earth.
....

Another wild assumption given by many Biblically illiterate folks here.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

That "end" and "flood" is about the following time...

Rev 12:7-16
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
KJV

That symbolic "flood" out of the serpent's (Satan) mouth represents his coming deception as the false-Messiah in Jerusalem for the END of this world during the "great tribulation", once he and his angels are cast out of Heaven per the above verses.

So that CANNOT be about any other time than the very END of this world.

 

[Jay Ross]

Another wild assumption given by many Biblically illiterate folks here.

Do you include yourself with the many illiterates when you put other posters down.

 

[Davy]

Do you include yourself with the many illiterates when you put other posters down.

I just put down what DECEIVED FOLKS post. Too bad you have not yet learned that difference by aligning more with what The Word of God says as written, instead of your trying to come up with some new fad doctrine that might sell books in a Christian bookstore.

 

[Jay Ross]

I just put down what DECEIVED FOLKS post. Too bad you have not yet learned that difference by aligning more with what The Word of God says as written, instead of your trying to come up with some new fad doctrine that might sell books in a Christian bookstore.

Oh Davy, it is so sad that you do not understand what has been written in the scriptures. At this stage I have not tried to pen a book to sell in Christian Bookstores as you are insinuating. I have read The Word of God just like you have, but I have come to very different conclusions.

Davy, what entity types are the four winds of heaven and what is their function at this present time?

When did the Little Horn begin to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts? When does the Little Horn's trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts end before they are all imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years to await the time of their future punishment? What Time Span was the Little Horn given to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts.

Davy, when did the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children in the third and the fourth ages/generations begin and when will it end?

Has Paul in Romans 11:25b-26 given us a clue as to when all the Israelites will be saved?

Davy can you explain how God's Covenant of Peace will be implemented and what actions of God will bring about this period of His Covenant of Peace and when this period of peace will end.

Davy in Rev 12:12 below, can you explain how long the rejoicing in heaven will last for and why the devil comes down with such great wrath because he knows that he only has a short time period for his attempt to upstage God, Himself.

Rev 12:12: - Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhibiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has only a short time.​

​

Davy can you see that there is a gap in the quoted verse above? If so, how large is that gap in time within that verse?

Davy, what are you trying to protect? Your pride in being a revered commentator of the word of God, when, in fact, you continually display a total misrepresentation of what the Wod of God actually states. You age is not a qualification that you can use to justify you authority to speak on the Word of God.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

Oh Davy, it is so sad that you do not understand what has been written in the scriptures.

You keep saying that, but you consistently reveal you don't follow Bible Scripture, but men's philosophy instead. How would you even know whether or not I follow Bible Scripture then?

At this stage I have not tried to pen a book to sell in Christian Bookstores as you are insinuating. I have read The Word of God just like you have, but I have come to very different conclusions.

Those in Christ are not supposed to come to different conclusions with understanding The Word of God. We all are supposed to be saying the same thing, and that per Apostle Paul. So what is this urge you have in wanting ... to be different?

Davy, what entity types are the four winds of heaven and what is their function at this present time?

When I spoke of the "four winds" of Rev.7, that was in relation to the subject of Rev.7 and the sealing of God's servants before those "four winds" blow. Why then are you attempting... to remove the "four winds" from that subject flow of Rev.7, and instead create a separate spiritual philosophy with it? That's what I mean with how many attempt to be different with God's Word, and come up with something 'brand new' to sell books and such, even though it destroys God's intended Message flow in a Bible Chapter.

When did the Little Horn begin to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts? When does the Little Horn's trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts end before they are all imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years to await the time of their future punishment? What Time Span was the Little Horn given to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts.

That doesn't work. You have been WRONGLY TAUGHT to put the "little horn" prophecies from the Book of Daniel back into past history. The "little horn" of Daniel 7 comes up from among the "ten horns" mentioned there in Daniel 7.

Dan 7:7-8
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
KJV

The "ten horns" is given by Jesus as prophecy about the END of this world... along with that other horn that comes up from among the ten horns...

Rev 17:12-14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV

The "ten horns" represent "ten kings" that reign CONCURRENTLY with the "beast", i.e., the beast king. Revelation covers TWO different 'beast' types, the beast kingdom and the beast king over it. And those "ten kings" only come to power... with that "beast" for "one hour", which is a DIRECT POINTER TO THE END of this world, NOT PAST HISTORY.

So if you cannot even grasp that above, but instead must falter to men's doctrines (which your statements look a lot like what SDA teaches), then what other deceptions have you been subjected to?

 

[Jay Ross]

Those in Christ are not supposed to come to different conclusions with understanding The Word of God. We all are supposed to be saying the same thing, and that per Apostle Paul. So what is this urge you have in wanting ... to be different?

Oh Davy, why is it that you do not follow your own requirement of not being different when you find fault with so many other posters. Why is that you are not agreeing with their points of view. Why is it that you need to be different.

Davy, what entity types are the four winds of heaven and what is their function at this present time?

Davy why is it that you could not answer my question quoted above but instead of framing your answer around this present time, you instead framed your answer around events that will occur in the distant future instead of this present time. Did you not understand the time frame for the question that I had asked and instead rambled this as your response.?

When I spoke of the "four winds" of Rev.7, that was in relation to the subject of Rev.7 and the sealing of God's servants before those "four winds" blow. Why then are you attempting... to remove the "four winds" from that subject flow of Rev.7, and instead create a separate spiritual philosophy with it? That's what I mean with how many attempt to be different with God's Word, and come up with something 'brand new' to sell books and such, even though it destroys God's intended Message flow in a Bible Chapter.

Davy I asked these question and you were not able to answer them.

"When did the Little Horn begin to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts? When does the Little Horn's trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts end before they are all imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years to await the time of their future punishment? What Time Span was the Little Horn given to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts."​

This was your response: -

That doesn't work. You have been WRONGLY TAUGHT to put the "little horn" prophecies from the Book of Daniel back into past history. The "little horn" of Daniel 7 comes up from among the "ten horns" mentioned there in Daniel 7.

I notice that you did not consider Daniel 8 when you considered only Daniel 7. Also Daniel 8 makes a reference to the four winds of heaven as well.

Davy, I asked you a number of questions, but it seems to me that you chose not to answer my question and to go in another direction so that you did not need to respond to my particular question. Do you know the scriptures well enough at all so that you could respond to my questions.

Davy, if your only defence in your apology to my post is to fling dirt at me with exaggerated false claims then you are doing yourself a dis-service and only harming your own reputation.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

Oh Davy, why is it that you do not follow your own requirement of not being different when you find fault with so many other posters. Why is that you are not agreeing with their points of view. Why is it that you need to be different.

I find it amazing that you think my different coverage of Bible Scripture is just me being different when all I'm doing is declaring the simplicity of The Word of God as written. The fact that you don't recognize that difference suggests you may have a serious problem with deception. God's Word as written isn't popular. What you re apparently are used to with calling it God's Word when it isn't, is not God's Word, but man's word.

Davy why is it that you could not answer my question quoted above but instead of framing your answer around this present time, you instead framed your answer around events that will occur in the distant future instead of this present time. Did you not understand the time frame for the question that I had asked and instead rambled this as your response.?

I stayed on the subject of the posts here. You did not. You jumped around like frog legs in a frying pan, which is what men's SDA doctrines do within the Daniel 9 prophecies about the END. FYI, they are not all complete, and the 70th final symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 has NOT happened yet, for it is reserved about the coming Antichrist at the END of this world.

Davy I asked these question and you were not able to answer them.

​

"When did the Little Horn begin to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts? When does the Little Horn's trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts end before they are all imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years to await the time of their future punishment? What Time Span was the Little Horn given to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts."​

I already answered that, showing you that "little horn" prophecy is about the END of this world with the coming false-Messiah to JERUSALEM, and in relation with the "ten horns" of Revelation 17. But you obviously don't care much for New Testament Bible Scripture, which points to who you have been wrongly listening to, i.e., crept in unawares from the Jew's religion.

I notice that you did not consider Daniel 8 when you considered only Daniel 7. Also Daniel 8 makes a reference to the four winds of heaven as well.

Oh, but I did, I actually mentioned the "king of fierce countenance" of Daniel 8 first in one of my posts here. You've been asleep. Both of those "little horn" prophecies are about the SAME one, the end time Antichrist.

The "little horn" of Daniel 7...

Dan 7:7-8
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
KJV

The Revelation parallel... about the end of this world...

Rev 17:12-14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV

The Daniel 8 "little horn" is the end time Antichrist also...

Dan 8:9-12
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The "pleasant land" represents Israel and Jerusalem.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Lucifer is who cast stars (angels) to earth with him when he first fell, per Rev.12:3-4.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That "little horn" is the "man of sin" Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2 that is coming to Jerusalem to claim to be God The Christ, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. Jesus warned of that one in Jerusalem with the setting up of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new stone temple built by the Jews in Jerusalem for the END. It ain't about Antiochus, because he had already been dead about 200 years when Jesus warned about seeing the "abomination of desolation" at the END (Matt.24:15).

The ending of the daily sacrifices by the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem it is speaking of is part of what the coming Antichrist ("little horn") will do, which he will then setup the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in place of that. So that means old covenant worship by the unbelieving Jews is coming back in Jerusalem at the END of this world, before Jesus returns. That is who and what the Daniel 9:27 verse, and the Daniel 11 prophecy about the "vile person" is about. It's that same "little horn", the coming Antichrist for the END of this world.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
KJV

As far as you asking me questions, I responded with this post and a previous one, but YOU SAID NOTHING IN RESPONSE TO THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED IN ANSWER TO YOU. That reveals all you are trying... to do is PLAY GAMES HERE.

May my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ REBUKE YOU, in the Name of Jesus Christ!

 

[Jay Ross]

May my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ REBUKE YOU, in the Name of Jesus Christ!

Davy, your calling down a rebuke from God and Jesus is not lifting anyone up at all.

You are claiming that I have SDA roots, which is a blatant lie on your part, is not true at all.

There is no point in having a conversation with you at all, particularly when you are only interesting is protecting your own understandings of the scriptures.

Goodbye for the moment as I actual take the time to read this thread.