Ezekiel 37 Happens BEFORE Christ's Future Millennium Reign

[Davy]

You have terrible reading comprehension skills and I've shown that many times in your posts. One example that comes to mind is a time when you claimed someone was saying that all premils are pretrib dispensationalists. No one even came close to saying that, but that's how you read it. Everyone knows that not all premils are pretribs, so no one was claiming otherwise. Yet, you thought they were. That's just one of many examples of you misunderstanding what you read.

All you have shown is that you have no problem telling LIES. And that you do OFTEN against The written Word of God, AS I HAVE SHOWN MANY TIMES.

 

[Davy]

Just take note, brethren in Christ, those who are against the message of this Thread are NOT aligned with actual written Bible prophecy, but instead are soaked in men's false traditions made up outside The Bible.

Since 1948 when Israel became a nation in the middle east again, the Orthodox unbelieving Jews there have tried... to create the lie that Old Testament prophecy about the gathering of Israel was then beginning and continuing, which is actually a LIE against those Old Testament prophecies as written. They depend on you... NOT really studying those prophecies in God's Word, many which I have covered here in this Thread from the Book of Ezekiel. And believe it or not, a lot of Christian pastors, my own brethren in Christ, don't study many of those Old Testament prophecies, instead themselves believing false doctrines of men that they have been fulfilled already, or are now being fulfilled today, even WITHOUT OUR LORD JESUS' RETURN.

The Jews in Jerusalem today invite Christian Churches to visit middle east Israel, and to donate funds to help the Jew's building of their future 3rd temple. (I'd bet most of you brethren in Christ didn't know that, did you?). The message they include with that offer to Christian Churches is how God is NOW fulfilling His Promises to the Jews about restoration of their kingdom!

Of course not all the Jews in today's nation of Israel believe all that, but are pretty indifferent to the whole idea of God and Israel's history. Well, that makes sense, because not all Jews are even of the actual seed of old Israel. Many foreigners are converts to Judaism.

Yet the real FACTS... of the matter, according to God's actual written Word, is that the future restoration of the Kingdom of Israel in the middle east will ONLY HAPPEN when Lord Jesus Christ returns in our near future. That is what is written in Ezekiel 37, and is why that Ezekiel 37 Chapter CANNOT be about a time AFTER Christ's Millennium reign, but only just before His coming and literal reign upon this earth. Even in the Matthew 25 Scripture about Jesus taking His earthly throne and separating His sheep from the goats reveals this restoration of Israel prophecy is still yet to happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All you have shown is that you have no problem telling LIES. And that you do OFTEN against The written Word of God, AS I HAVE SHOWN MANY TIMES.

What lies have I told, Davy? Just give a couple examples.

 

[PinSeeker]

God said He made Ezekiel a prophet to the "house of Israel"...

Sure. Absolutely.

...there will be joined against God's people, of both ISRAELS, ...

There is only one Israel of God:

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)​

​

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world." (Hebrews 11:1)​

This is primarily the problem of premillennialism, and particularly dispensational premillennialism. Regarding Ezekiel 37 and the valley of dry bones, God Himself has just said through Ezekiel ~ in Ezekiel 36:

"Therefore say to the house of Israel..." (that's THE house of Israel; there is only one, and not two) "...I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules."​

And Ezekiel 37 is a picture of what Paul talks about in Ephesians 2:1-10...

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience⁠ ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace you have been saved⁠ ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..."​

Paul puts the unification of God's one people, His Israel, this way, speaking to Gentiles:

"...remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands⁠ ~ remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:11-22)​

And who are the true Jews of God? Well Paul tells us in Romans 2:28-29:

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."​

There is only one true Israel, and it consists now of a great many people past and present of every tongue, tribe, and people group. The millennium is now, and what Ezekiel gives us a picture of in Ezekiel 37 ~ bringing dead people from death to life ~ is a present reality... it is happening right now, all around us. God is doing this. Gloria in excelsis Deo.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davy]

Once again brethren in Christ, do not pay attention to Jews who try... and claim they are the ONLY Israelites of the seed. Per GOD's Word, the greater MAJORITY of Israelites were scattered by God long ago, and were known as the "house of Israel" which were made up ONLY of the northern ten tribes of Israel.

These 10 tribes of Israel that were removed out of the holy land by the kings of Assyria never to return, sons of Jacob, were these. These represent the "house of Israel" in God's Word, in contrast to the "house of Judah", or JEWS, which were made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi:

1. Reuben, Jacob's firstborn
2. Simeon
3. Issachar
4. Zebulun
5. Dan
6. Naphtali
7. Gad
8. Asher
9. Manasseh
10. Ephraim


God's Birthright is a Biblical topic seldom followed. It involves God's Promises and Blessings, and... duties, that He assigned to His chosen Israel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, or Promise by Faith to Abraham, is one of the duties God assigned to His Israel. So God's Birthright FOLLOWS... that assigned duty of The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 Chron 5:1-2
5 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)
KJV

Who were the "sons of Joseph" per God's Word? Manasseh the elder, and Ephraim the younger, both sons born to Joseph in Egypt. The above is showing us where... that "birthright" finally went. The Genesis 48 Chapter reveals it went to Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph (or ISRAEL, the new name God gave Jacob).

Do you recall the Pillar Stone which Jacob made his pillow, and had visions of angels ascending and descending? Jacob woke up and said God must be in that place, so Jacob anointed that Stone, and called it Beth-El, which means House of God. Did you know that the children of Israel carried that Stone in their journeys? And even more, that Joseph's seed inherited that Stone representing Christ Jesus?...

Below is Jacob having gathered his 12 sons around to tell them what shall happen to them in the 'last days'. This is to Joseph...

Gen 49:22-26
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

That idea of course is about Joseph having received God's Birthright. It began with God's Promises to Abraham, and continued to his son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph.

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

Scholars will ever be in debate about the meaning of that above phrase in red. But it is very simple. It is referring to the Jacob's Pillar Stone, the Stone that Jacob called Beth-El (House of God) to represent God's ISRAEL, and even Jacob's new name Israel.

The idea of the "shepherd" is about Lord Jesus Christ, from the Zechariah 13 prophecy, "smite the shepherd", about Jesus' crucifixion, and His disciples having been scattered for their protection. Thus Lord Jesus Christ is associated with that "stone of Israel".

The mystery?? The Jacob's Pillar Stone represents our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, The ROCK. When Moses and the children of Israel were destitute in the wilderness with no water, God told Moses to smite the 'rock' in Exodus 17, and waters would flow out of it. This rock also would issue forth honey, and even oil (Ps.81:16; Deut.32:13).


25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, Who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
KJV

That is Jacob revealing God's Birthright Blessings were transferred to his son Joseph. It is about Joseph in the LAST DAYS possessing great wealth, great military power, the best crop producing lands of the earth, and the blessing of seed as many as the stars of the sky and sands of the sea. Those are all identifiers... for God's Israel, even to this day.

But it is NOT an identifier of the JEWS of today's nation of Israel in the middle east, for the majority of JEWS there still reject Lord Jesus Christ, The Shepherd. Thus the "stone of Israel" is NOT with the unbelieving JEWS. It instead is with the scattered ten tribes of the lost sheep of the house of Israel, along with believing Gentiles, who together make up Christ's Church!

As Lord Jesus Christ said:

Matt 15:24
24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
KJV

 

[Douggg]

Thus Ezekiel 37 reveals the 'two sticks' to point to each separate 'house' that are still separated to this day.

The re-uniting of Israel back into one nation took place in 1948.

Israel of today covers the territories that once made up the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom.

In 1967, the Jews regained control of Jerusalem. The prophesy about the two witnesses in Revelation 11 takes place in Jerusalem.

The Gog/Magog event will take place before the end of 2030. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 will begin right after the Gog/Magog event.

The Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran has just been killed by a missile attack by Israel (you tube videos on it). So what follows, remains to be seen. But it may expedite the Gog/Magog event.

 

[Douggg]

Iran strikes back with missile attack on Tel Aviv.

 

[Douggg]

Iran strikes back with missile attack on Haifa. 2/28/2026 on You Tube

 

[PinSeeker]

"...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God" (Romans 2:28-29)

"...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring" (Romans 9:6-8).

"...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)

"Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision' by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands⁠... were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise... (b)ut now in Christ Jesus (Gentiles) have been brought near by the blood of Christ... He himself is our peace, Who has made us both one... reconcil(ing) us both to God in one body through the cross... through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father... (Gentile Christians) are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him (we) are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:11-22).

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, 'In you shall all the nations be blessed' So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith... Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus... if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise" (Galatians 3).

This is the Word of the Lord. Thanks be to God.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davy]

The re-uniting of Israel back into one nation took place in 1948.

Not true. And the Ezekiel 37 Chapter confirms that is not true, since the restoration of God's Israel involves the return of the ten tribes. Still today, the majority of Jews in the middle east are from the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. Because Ezekiel 37 reveals the ten northern tribes as a SEPARATE HOUSE, confirms this.

The "synagogue of Satan", which is in control of middle east Israel today, is preparing Israel for their coming false-Messiah which they serve instead of Christ Jesus. They can't set that false one up without first claiming the Bible's restoration of Israel prophecies are happening first.

 

[Trekson]

Brethren in Christ, be careful of listening to the 'soothsayers' that come here to confuse about the order of events written in the Ezekiel 37, 38, and 39 Chapters.

God said He made Ezekiel a prophet to the "house of Israel", which means the ten scattered tribes of Israel at that time who were captive by the Assyrians just north of Babylon, and in the lands of the Medes. God sent Ezekiel to those ten tribes.

The Ezekiel 37 Chapter covers how God would eventually wake up the ten tribes spiritually, which is what the dry bones example is about. The Chapter also includes when God will put the two separate houses of Israel back together into one nation that He separated back in Solomon's day (1 KIngs 11 forward). That includes their gathering out of the nations back to the holy lands, with "one shepherd" (Jesus) over them, and David as their king. All that is to happen immediately PRIOR to Christ's Millennium reign with His elect.

The timeline of the Ezekiel 38 Chapter then goes backwards in time to just before the coming "great tribulation" and then to the end of the tribulation just prior to Christ's return. Those nations God showed Ezekiel there will be joined against God's people, of both ISRAELS, the Israel in the west represented by the Christian nations ("house of Israel", stick of Joseph), and the middle east nation of Israel ("house of Judah" at Jerusalem-Judea, the Jews). The battle upon the western "house of Israel" may likely be from Russia on the U.S. border of Alaska. God mentions that battle will take place away from any city. God says when this happens, His people of the scattered ten tribe "house of Israel" will then know why He scattered them, and who they really are, and how He had cast them off for a time (see Book of Hosea).

Ezekiel 39 continues this subject about the destruction of those nations allied with Gog and Magog (old Rus or Rosh = Russia). The burying place for those of Israel's enemies destroyed by God will there be called the Valley of Hamon-gog. God is Who will do this destruction, not us. That way the peoples of the earth will KNOW Who He is, and that it was by HIS Hand and not by any other, that He did the destruction of Israel's enemies of both 'houses'. This 39th Chapter timeline then moves to the gathering of all 12 tribes back together into one nation again in the holy land, and how they will know God.

Then Ezekiel 40 begins description of Christ's future Millennial 'sanctuary' on earth where He and His elect will reign from with the "rod of iron" over the unsaved nations that was promised Him in Psalms 2. This description in detail, continues all the way to the end of the Book of Ezekiel, and the last phrase of the last verse is "The LORD is there," or Yehovah Shammah.

If one looks closely at Ez. 38, one will see by the descriptions given it must be post mill.

 

[PinSeeker]

If one looks closely at Ez. 38, one will see by the descriptions given it must be post mill.

Weeeeeeelllll... <smile> It's a bit more possible, I guess, to understand it as post-mill, but...

<smile>

Grace and peace to you, Trekson.

 

[PinSeeker]

Not true.

Right. <smile>

And the Ezekiel 37 Chapter confirms that is not true, since the restoration of God's Israel involves the return of the ten tribes.

The completion of God's Israel involves the bringing in of the fullness of the Gentiles and the removal of the partial hardening that is now on Israel, which is the bringing in of all ethnic Jewish believers. In this way, all of Israel will be saved. And it will not be complete until the end of this age. This is what Paul says in Romans 11. And Ezekiel 37 is a graphic image of God's saving all of His Israel, His bringing them into His Household. And again... well, actually, the better way to say it is, when this is complete ~ because it's in the process of being completed ~ then this age will end, and Jesus will return.

The "synagogue of Satan", which is in control of middle east Israel today, is preparing Israel for their coming false-Messiah which they serve instead of Christ Jesus. They can't set that false one up without first claiming the Bible's restoration of Israel prophecies are happening first.

Goodness gracious. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Trekson]

Weeeeeeelllll... <smile> It's a bit more possible, I guess, to understand it as post-mill, but...

<smile>

Grace and peace to you, Trekson.

Exactly when do you expect to see Ez. 38:8, which is describing the millennial era happen or vs. 11, something that in the context has been the norm for quite a long time or vs. 14, the same? BTW, the king of the north isn't the a/c.

 

[Davy]

If one looks closely at Ez. 38, one will see by the descriptions given it must be post mill.

Just the opposite actually.

There are TWO Gog-Magog events written of in God's Word:

1. the Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog = 'specific' nations that come up against Israel on the last day of this present world on the day of Christ's future coming. Christ's "thousand years" reign only begins AFTER He comes to battle with this Gog-Magog coming out of the northern quarters aligned with not all nations, but only specific nations with them (Persia, Libya, Turkey, Gomer, etc., nations north of the land of Israel).

2. the Revelation 20:8 Gog and Magog = ALL nations out of the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH that will follow Satan to attack the "camp of the saints" on earth at Jerusalem where Lord Jesus and His elect Church will reign from for the "thousand years". This happens after the "thousand years" when Satan is released from his pit prison, and those who still... reject Christ will follow Satan instead, and God then will destroy them by His fire.

 

[Trekson]

Just the opposite actually.

There are TWO Gog-Magog events written of in God's Word:

1. the Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog = 'specific' nations that come up against Israel on the last day of this present world on the day of Christ's future coming. Christ's "thousand years" reign only begins AFTER He comes to battle with this Gog-Magog coming out of the northern quarters aligned with not all nations, but only specific nations with them (Persia, Libya, Turkey, Gomer, etc., nations north of the land of Israel).

2. the Revelation 20:8 Gog and Magog = ALL nations out of the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH that will follow Satan to attack the "camp of the saints" on earth at Jerusalem where Lord Jesus and His elect Church will reign from for the "thousand years". This happens after the "thousand years" when Satan is released from his pit prison, and those who still... reject Christ will follow Satan instead, and God then will destroy them by His fire.

The whole earth is attacking Jerusalem in both accounts but those two prophecies are the only times Gog and Magog are mentioned in the manner they are. Two mentions but one event. Gog is the evil spirit of the northern region which is called Magog, along the line of the prince of Persia, another demonic entity mentioned in Dan. 10:13. Ez. 38 simply focuses on the king of the north as the leading evil spirit, one of the 'corners" in the final rebellion of Rev. 20. However, that doesn't mean he won't be involved in the events leading up to and including Armageddon as Ez. 39 and Rev. 16:13-14 shows.

 

[Davy]

The whole earth is attacking Jerusalem in both accounts ....

No, that's not correct.

Per the Gog-Magog of Ezekiel 38, that is specifically about Russia and its radical Islamic allies. Russia, because the word for "chief" in Ezek.38:2 is 'Rosh', and is a word pointing to Rus, an old name for Russia. Furthermore, we know... Russia is one of the main supports of radical Islam with arms and training.

Also, there is no "camp of the saints" mentioned in that Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog event. Instead, it will be upon the majority of unbelieving Jews in today's nation of Israel. The Gog-Magog event of Revelation 20:8-9 instead does not specifically define what nations will come up against Jerusalem, but it does point to the "camp of the saints", which means CHRISTIAN SAINTS with Christ Jesus there at Jerusalem after Jesus' 2nd coming. So are you going to try and tell us that Jesus and His saints are already present in today's Israel and governing it as that "camp of the saints"?

 

[Trekson]

No, that's not correct.

Per the Gog-Magog of Ezekiel 38, that is specifically about Russia and its radical Islamic allies. Russia, because the word for "chief" in Ezek.38:2 is 'Rosh', and is a word pointing to Rus, an old name for Russia. Furthermore, we know... Russia is one of the main supports of radical Islam with arms and training.

Also, there is no "camp of the saints" mentioned in that Ezekiel 38 Gog-Magog event. Instead, it will be upon the majority of unbelieving Jews in today's nation of Israel. The Gog-Magog event of Revelation 20:8-9 instead does not specifically define what nations will come up against Jerusalem, but it does point to the "camp of the saints", which means CHRISTIAN SAINTS with Christ Jesus there at Jerusalem after Jesus' 2nd coming. So are you going to try and tell us that Jesus and His saints are already present in today's Israel and governing it as that "camp of the saints"?

There are many prophecies that speak of the same events but they hardly ever use the exact same wordage. When this happens, it's the differences between them that adds to the existing prophecy. Most of Rev. doesn't introduce new prophecies, it expands upon the prophecies that were given in the OT. It's quite possible to have prophecies, for example from Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekial and Zechariah all speaking about the same event using different words, maybe a couple of them add to what was already said. This what being a Berean is all about. Studying the whole of prophecy, then "rightly dividing" where they land on the prophetic narrative as a whole.

 

[PinSeeker]

Exactly when do you expect to see Ez. 38:8, which is describing the millennial era happen or vs. 11, something that in the context has been the norm for quite a long time or vs. 14, the same? BTW, the king of the north isn't the a/c.

I'm not even sure what you're saying here, Trekson, but I Ezekiel's prophecy contains much apocalyptic literature ~ which requires a bit of proper analysis to read it for what it is. To answer your question, though, I see the events described here as parallel with... or the same events but described in a slightly different way... what we read in Revelation 19:11-22 and Revelation 20 7-8. I mean, you probably do, too, since Gog and Magog are specifically mentioned in the Revelation 20 passage. This is the final battle in which Jesus will return and defeat Satan once and for all. And this will take place after the close of God's millennium, the "thousand years."

I do, however, believe there was an immediate fulfillment of this prophecy, which was not so "immediate" as we think of it, but an initial, smaller fulfillment that took place long ago. Scripture and prophecy is layered like that, if that makes sense to you. What you say above is true, that Revelation doesn't introduce new prophecies, it expands upon the prophecies that were given in the Old Testament. And it's not future only, either, as so many believe.

Oh, and, yeah, I agree... no, the king of the north is not the antichrist. <smile> And no, it's not about Russia, either. Goodness gracious. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Trekson]

I'm not even sure what you're saying here, Trekson, but I Ezekiel's prophecy contains much apocalyptic literature ~ which requires a bit of proper analysis to read it for what it is. To answer your question, though, I see the events described here as parallel with... or the same events but described in a slightly different way... what we read in Revelation 19:11-22 and Revelation 20 7-8. I mean, you probably do, too, since Gog and Magog are specifically mentioned in the Revelation 20 passage. This is the final battle in which Jesus will return and defeat Satan once and for all. And this will take place after the close of God's millennium, the "thousand years."

I do, however, believe there was an immediate fulfillment of this prophecy, which was not so "immediate" as we think of it, but an initial, smaller fulfillment that took place long ago. Scripture and prophecy is layered like that, if that makes sense to you. What you say above is true, that Revelation doesn't introduce new prophecies, it expands upon the prophecies that were given in the Old Testament. And it's not future only, either, as so many believe.

Oh, and, yeah, I agree... no, the king of the north is not the antichrist. <smile> And no, it's not about Russia, either. Goodness gracious. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

Hi Pin, First, let me say that, as a christian, I completely reject the term " apocalyptic literature". It's a word unbelievers came up with to describe unfulfilled prophecy. When unbelievers hear that phrase, they automatically assume that the bible is some sort of sci-fi fantasy book of fables and not as God's holy word! When immature believers hear that phrase, it reduces prophecy to something that is "just a wild imagination, surely that can't be the truth" which then closes them off from accepting most unfulfilled prophecies as truth. It takes a lot less analysis to first accept it as absolute literal truth and then if it doesn't align w/ the rest of prophecy, figure out why. I use this as an aid, "If it makes sense, seek no other sense." In Rev., everything from cp. 6 to the end is indeed future from John's time and since none of that has been fulfilled yet brings us to our time. There are a couple of references to past truth, like the beginning of Rev. 12, but if one looks to the past to try and define Rev. 17 as many do, they start to go off the rails.